[UmbraProphet]

[Okay, be prepared for a reasonably long post.]

Hey there, this is my first post on these forums.
Recently I've been in a dilemma about upgrading my computer hardware to make for increased speed in design programs (photoshop, premiere, after effects etc.) and the ability to play games at higher quality settings.

After a bit of researching, I've inevitably arrived at the idea of upgrading my video card and my RAM. I've already decided on upgrading my current measly 510MB to a much more suitable 2GB. However, my main problem is the choice of video card, and knowing whether or not it would be compatible with my system.

So to sum up, I'd like to know:

- What information I need to find out about my computer, and how this will affect what graphics card I can purchase.
- Although I'm familiar with most of the terminology, things like 'SLI' and 'CrossFire' mean absolutely nothing to me. Are they necessary?
- What is this all about 'AGP' and 'PCI Express'? And how can I find out what my motherboard can support?
Really, I'd like to just give my system specs and ask what would be suitable...but I've found so little resource about graphics card compatibility on the internet, that this would be much more useful to people who are in the same position as me.

Thanks in advance,
and any help is appreciated!

Jonathan Sandman (a.k.a. UmbraProphet)

[BG-0]

Use PCWizard by CPUID to determine your system/motherboard model, we really don't need much more to recommend a graphics card. However, if you haven't upgraded your power supply earlier on, you'll most probably need to do that now (~50$ operation, a premium quality 400W PSU costs that) if you want a decent graphics card suitable for gaming. Post other system specs that PC Wizard tells, too, we can advice on other things too.

[SandyGunfox]

SLI and Crossfire are NVIDIA and ATI's method of linking multiple graphics cards together. They're almost the same thing, but one's NVIDIA and one's ATI. Unless you're going for multiple graphics cards, you don't need to worry about it. And if you are going for multiple cards, that's all there is to it, really. To my knowledge, most modern cards from both companies will be multi-gpu compatible.

AGP and PCIe are two different types of standard expansion ports. PCIe is technically superior to AGP, which is why AGP is increasingly rare in new models. If you have a PCIe slot, use that. (My links should have images of what these slots look like.)

As for what particular video card you should choose, we should like to know how much you're willing to spend. Also, "higher quality" is a bit relative and subjective - if you could be more specific as to how intensive your gaming is and what specs you're hoping for, that would be a great help.

Both ATI's Radeon series and NVIDIA's GeForce series are generally the most popular, and one or the other will work just fine. I prefer NVIDIA and always have, but that's mostly just personal taste - I'd be hard-pressed to firmly even justify it.

Use the program previously linked, too, knowing your motherboard model and such will help us help you.

[Compiler]

Depending on your computer, it maynot be worth upgrading or may not be upgradable.

The info we need, most of it you can get from PC Wizard.

- Brand and model of your PC
- Mother board Brand and model (This will help tell us if you have AGP or PCIe or none)
- Power Supply Brand and model
- CPU Brand and model

With your computer being 512mb, it sounds more like an AGP type of computer - but thats speculation until you update us.

To increase PS and such, you're looking at multi-core CPUs and improved graphics.

[UmbraProphet]

Okay, is this information that I'm gonna need?

<<< Mainboard >>>
> Manufacturer : eveshamvale
> Mainboard : eveshamvale RS480M2-IL
> Bios : Phoenix Technologies, LTD
> Chipset : ATI RS482
> Physical Memory : 512 MB DDR-SDRAM
> LPC bus : Yes
> PCI Bus : Yes
> Bus PCI-Express : Yes
> USB Bus : Yes
> SMBus/i2c Bus : Yes
> Bus HyperTransport : Yes
> Bus QPI : No
> Bus CardBus : No
> Bus FireWire : Yes

<<< Processor >>>
> Processor : AMD Athlon 64 3000+
> Frequency : 1800 MHz
> Support : Socket 939
> Cache L1 : 128 KB
> Cache L2 : 512 KB
> Voltage VID : 1.500 V
> FPU Coprocessor : Present
> Processor activity : : 6%

Also, my power supply is 250w. Looking at some of the requirements for graphics cards out there, I'm guessing that I'll have to look into upgrading that too. And thanks for the help, it's all really useful and it's great that you've taken the time to reply and help solve my problem.

Jonathan Sandman (a.k.a. UmbraProphet)

[SandyGunfox]

You will almost certainly have to get a better power supply. Fortunately, as long as you know or can figure out which wire plugs into where without electrocuting yourself, it's fairly straightforward. There should be some guide or manual or something that comes with a new power supply.

Your motherboard has one PCI-e x16 slot, which is where your new graphics card will go. As long as you have enough power to support it and it'll fit inside your case, it should be compatible, unless I'm missing something.

[Compiler]

This should be your board, an MSI:
http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p...del=rs480m2-il

Your board, at least has PCIe - so you can at least upgrade the video card easily and cheaply.

But overall - most of the computer is out-dated and finding a cheap used CPU is your best bet for getting more performance. You're CPU is the bottom end AMD64-3000 (A fine chip in its day). You are limited to the long-time discontinued AMD socket 939 CPUs... To help us help you... a few more questions:

1 - What is your budget? Have Goal and absolute. (ie: My budget is $300, but may go $325)
2 - What games are you wanting to play? Old games won't be a problem, new games are a problem.

Here is a photoshop Performance chart that is new. So your Specific CPU isn't on the chart. But the AMD Sempron LE-1150 (1core 2.0Ghz) is the closest thing to your CPU. So for reference, yours is a little bit slower. Its at the very bottom.
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/default.aspx?b=25
1150 = 112 seconds (Like your 3000 CPU)
4450 = 62 seconds (like an AMD64 x2 4800 2.4Ghz 939 CPU)
7850 = 40 seconds (2.8Ghz 2-core CPU) $65
x3 720 = 29 seconds (2.8Ghz 3-core CPU) $120

But those are new chips for new motherboards.
Pricewatch has 939 CPUs: http://www.pricewatch.com/browse/cpu/socket_939/18
The X2 2.2Ghz 939 CPU is $240 and the 2.4Ghz X2 (4600) $350 Not worth it.

You're looking at spending $35~45 per GB of RAM (DDR-1 1GB each) that won't be usable on any modern computer.

You can spend $25~200 for a gaming card, but those won't help much in photoshop.

The PSU will need to be upgraded, $50~100, depending on your goals & budget.

That is the problem. If you can find someone selling a cheap used X2 CPU, a 3800/4600 should be about $10 or so. Spending about $300 for a CPU that is old for a dying standard is bad use of money.

If you want to keep what you have... the most I'd spend is about $50~60 in upgrades. A new PSU can be used in a new computer.

A new CPU, motherboard and RAM - such as the AMD x2 7850 with 2GB can be as low as $160~175. Todays AMD onboard video is quite fast too. Still need to add the PSU of course.

And you need to have an OS CD. And you may not have enough old IDE drive connectors to work with, if you want to use your old drives.

Do you have computer building experience?

You may simply want to buy a new computer for $350~375.
AMD X2 2.5ghz / 3GB RAM / 320GB HD / Vista + Win7 upgrade / DVD-RW drive

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1218093382970

While your current CPU is 2.0Ghz, today's CPUs are a faster, even if at 2.5.

[UmbraProphet]

Okay, thanks very much for your help. Taking into account that upgrading my computer would be very expensive, and that computer hardware technology is advancing so fast...it makes little sense for me to upgrade something that isn't going to last me.

So I've decided that I'm gonna custom-build a new computer; I was surprised at how much money you could save from buying the parts separately and assembling it yourself. Although I originally only had a basic understanding of the inner-workings of my computer, thanks to you my knowledge has advanced (especially on the graphical-capability side of things), so I'll be able to create a computer that's upgradable and will support my needs.

I've also researched further into some of the areas that 'Compiler' suggested, and am looking into different motherboard specs so that I know what I need to look at when it comes down to finding compatible components.

And thanks to everyone who has helped, it's been a real eye-opener, and the information has been really useful! Keep up the good work =)

Jonathan Sandman (a.k.a. UmbraProphet)

[Compiler]

For help in such areas for custom building:

1 - What is your budget? Have Goal and absolute. (ie: My budget is $300, but may go $325)
2 - What games are you wanting to play? Old games won't be a problem, new games are a problem.

Thing is, you can buy some parts today and use them in your current computer as you buy more parts tomorrow.

The PSU and video card can go in. Then build/buy the rest.

Here are parts:
CPU AMD X2 7850 $70 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103678 (2.GGhz > 3.2Ghz easy) - usually $60
CPU AMD X2 240 $60 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...N82E1681910368
MB Gigabyte 740 $55 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128342 (Budget board - 2 DDR2 slots)
MB Gigabyte 780 $75 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128379
MB Gigabyte 770 $80 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128392 (No onboard video)
MB Gigabyte 790 $110 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128387 (High end - Crossfire 8x8 mode)

RAM 2GB DDR2 800 - $30 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231098 (G.Skill 2x 1GB)
RAM 4GB DDR2 800 - $47 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820145184 (Corsairs 2x2GB)

XFX 4850 512mb $110 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814150337 (kinda quiet)
Gigabyte 4850 1GB $130 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814125258 - (Fanless must have a good case)
3D HIS 4670 1GB $80 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814161273 (The 512mb not made?) Quiet Cooler
3D HIS 4650 1GB $60 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814161285 (Less performance - low noise)
PSU Silverstone 400 $50 ($35) Combo with CPU above: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817256032
PSU 400w Seasonic $45 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817151061
PSU 550w Corsair $93 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139004
PSU 500w OCZ $60 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817341012 (disregard rebate)

You make your budget first & needs first before putting parts together.
AMD 7850 has been discontinued... The X2 250 performs as fast. Just a lot cheaper for AMD to make.

[BG-0]

Originally Posted by Compiler

For help in such areas for custom building:

1 - What is your budget? Have Goal and absolute. (ie: My budget is $300, but may go $325)
2 - What games are you wanting to play? Old games won't be a problem, new games are a problem.

Thing is, you can buy some parts today and use them in your current computer as you buy more parts tomorrow.

The PSU and video card can go in. Then build/buy the rest.

Here are parts:
CPU AMD X2 7850 $70 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103678 (2.GGhz > 3.2Ghz easy) - usually $60
CPU AMD X2 240 $60 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...N82E1681910368
MB Gigabyte 740 $55 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128342 (Budget board - 2 DDR2 slots)
MB Gigabyte 780 $75 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128379
MB Gigabyte 770 $80 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128392 (No onboard video)
MB Gigabyte 790 $110 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128387 (High end - Crossfire 8x8 mode)

RAM 2GB DDR2 800 - $30 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231098 (G.Skill 2x 1GB)
RAM 4GB DDR2 800 - $47 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820145184 (Corsairs 2x2GB)

XFX 4850 512mb $110 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814150337 (kinda quiet)
Gigabyte 4850 1GB $130 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814125258 - (Fanless must have a good case)
3D HIS 4670 1GB $80 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814161273 (The 512mb not made?) Quiet Cooler
3D HIS 4650 1GB $60 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814161285 (Less performance - low noise)
PSU Silverstone 400 $50 ($35) Combo with CPU above: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817256032
PSU 400w Seasonic $45 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817151061
PSU 550w Corsair $93 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139004
PSU 500w OCZ $60 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817341012 (disregard rebate)

You make your budget first & needs first before putting parts together.
AMD 7850 has been discontinued... The X2 250 performs as fast. Just a lot cheaper for AMD to make.

You're just copypasting that over, now aren't you? The 550 currently costs 99.99, the same as the 650TX: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139005 they have the same amount of rebate too, so go get the 650 if you want room for upgrade and a high end graphics card.

[Compiler]

Because I tend to recommend the same parts - I have a list I keep handy. I did happen to update it today. I add small notes to the parts.

I don't put HDs, DVD, etc since that doesn't really matter. But I guess I should add the Antec300 as a low-budget quality case.

$100 for the 650w PSU is a good deal... the 550 should be cheaper!

I still don't recommend anything more than a $100~150 video card nowadays.

I bet in the coming weeks, we're going to see the prices drop on the top-end card and I'm sure they are no longer being made. Whose going to buy a $250 DX10 card when a $150 DX11 is faster?

[BG-0]

Another one is the new Two Hundred
Also, for a bit "nicer" case, Lian Li Lancool PC-K58 and K62 are new arrivals worth looking into, I saw a nice review of it, I think those are the first ever tool-less cases that actually are good. Out of stock at newegg currently, of course, but yeah.

[UmbraProphet]

Before we race off, I did do a little research into suitable components a while ago, and came up with this setup...although it assumed I had no budget in mind, but I can actually manage around £400 - £600. Could you take a quick look, see if I'm missing something somewhere? (I've omitted the DVD Writer and CPU Fan)

CPU - Intel Core 2 Quad Q6700 Processor
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...372&CatId=2758

MOTHERBOARD - Asus P5Q Motherboard
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...037&CatId=1533

HARD DRIVE - Seagate Barracuda 1.5TB Hard Drive
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...8742&CatId=139

VIDEO CARD - BFG GeForce 9800 GT Video Card
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...418&CatId=3585

PSU - Ultra LSP750 750-Watt Power Supply
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...Sku=ULT-LSP750

RAM - Crucial Ballistix 4096MB PC6400 DDR2
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...566&CatId=2261

CASE - Ultra M923 ATX Black Full Tower Case
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...620&CatId=1510

Does this look like a good setup? If I'm starting completely from scratch, would I be able to order them and assemble it myself (don't worry, I know how to) without any compatibility issues?

Thanks for your help,
Jonathan Sandman (a.k.a. UmbraProphet)

[BG-0]

Seagate Barracude 7200.11 series have some complications... That's the reason for the low price... Get a 7200.12 1 TB drive, or some WD Caviar Black or Blue drive.
Vid card, not a bad choice, has lifetime warranty...
RAM: these are as good and cheaper: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...346&CatId=3412
Mobo and CPU... Q6700 is the highest level model of a very outdated CPU series. Mobo could be said the same about.
CPU: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...ku=CP1-AM2-940 Easily faster, has a decent stock cooler...
Mobo: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...591&CatId=4296 (monster overclocker, superior quality)
Or: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...681&CatId=2320 Good basic board.

Power supply, I'd say go safe and get a Corsair. http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...609&CatId=2533 or http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...607&CatId=1483 You can never spend too much extra on the power supply for quality and reliability.

[Compiler]

The important issue here.... UmbraProphet, where do you live?

You said "£400 - £600"... if you're in the UK - you need to work within UK links... Some of us STILL use newegg for shopping parts - because they provide the best info.

I have an intel Q6600 running at 3ghz.. I'd be happy to trade it in for an AMD system if I had a buyer... but the re-sale value wouldn't allow me to get the AMD without spending more $$$

AMD is very good... prices are low... performance quite nice. If speed is desired, an intel i7... but thats about $200~300 more.

You can go with that build.... be BG-0 and myself (as well as others) are more quality oriented.

The 1TB Seagate is better to have... make sure its in the TINY box... the newer drives.
Ultra = cheap