Building or upgrading? - Page 2

Compiler · 08:24 PM

My opinions haven't changed... still up to you.... since you're not doing hard-core gaming... some stuff is overkill.

Mobo - Go with 785. Cheaper, just as fast - newer design actually.
CPU - AMD 955 CPU. less wattage. Still very fast.
HD - Samsung, Seagate, WD... all pretty much the same. Samsungs are supposed to be quiet. I still find Seagates to be constantly quiet. Even when being accessed, can't hear them.

Raidmax... as you said "Cheap" gaming case. Coolermaster, Antec make good $50~60 budget cases.... they don't compare to their $100+ cases... which have filters, etc.

Optional higher end cases (style):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-041-_-Product
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-018-_-Product (Solo - mid-size is nice)

GPU: I'd wait for the quieter and cheaper 5600s... you can use the onboard video until then as well as to hold you over until the 5700s come in stock. The 5700s aren't any better (performance wise) over the 4800s which start at $100 and are currently in stock.

PSU: Why are you lost? 550watt PSU will work for even a 5850 card which drinks more power than any 5700s. A 650w would still NOT be recommended for two 5850s.

MOnitor: Expensive? $310? The first 24" LCD I sold was $3500. Its box was HUGE... you can fit 6 modern boxed 24" monitors into it. I paid $450 for my 24" last year. For $50 more, you get a remote and HDMI and HD tunner... or $100 gets you a 26" display with HDMI & HD, etc...

DVD: Whatever works and in stock. SONY, Pioneer, NEC, Samsung...

Mosquito555 · 09-Nov-2009, 08:30 AM **#17**

I generally agree with Compiler...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guamek

motherboard:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128378
or
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128399

Both boards seem good quality wise. When it comes to performance I doubt that your system will run faster by using the most expensive 790 board.

However this board may be a bit better for overclocking but this doesn't mean that you won't be able to do some basic o/c with the cheaper board. So, just buy the one with the features that you need.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guamek

phenom II 955 BE
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103674
or
and phenom II 965 BE
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103727
(pII 965 BE 125w , only 20$ more

! a good deal or not? i want to overclock in the near future)

Go for the 955BE...The 965 can be still considered expensive, you could get the slightly better Core i5 for the money. The 955 is a great overclocker and performer, don't worry about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guamek

Ram:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820145251
or
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820145260
(made for use with intel cpus?)
or
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820145236
(6gb but $10+ less per unit?)

Forget the 6GB kit. This kit is made for Core i7 setups which need three RAM sticks installed in order to give their best. Go for a good 4GB kit and you will be fine.

You can still consider buying DDR2 RAM if it costs you less. I am located in the EU and here, many shops sell DDR2 only a bit cheaper than DDR3. The prices do not justify getting DDR2 anymore.

But if the prices have significant differences in the US you can save some money by getting DDR2 RAM.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guamek

Harddrive:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822152181
or
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822152185

As Compiler said, any HDD will be good. I usually buy Western Digital or Seagate drives, however, this Samsung drives received some very good reviews. They are supposed to be fast and silent. Now, regarding the size of the drive, I can't say much...Go for the one which suits your needs. If you need 1TB go for it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guamek

Case:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...enturion%20590
or
??? (I still have my doubts, any options besides the centurion and antec 300? )
what about a cheap gaming case?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811156062

If you have to make a choice between these two then go for the Centurion. The other one includes a PSU, why pay for it since you are about to buy an excellent Corsair PSU?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guamek

GPU:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102859
(any suggestions?)

Compiler has a good point here as well. You could wait for the cheaper HD 56xx series. I'd however suggest buying the HD 5750 right away if you can afford it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guamek

Power Supply:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139005
(im lost here)

Go for the 550 Watts model, you will be fine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guamek

Wireless Adapter(BASIC):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16833130057
or
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16833124347

I don't know much about wireless cards...I guess both will do the job. I'd go for the cheaper one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guamek

Monitor:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-275-_-Product
(mmmm... a little expensive...)

Unfortunately that's a normal price for a monitor of this size...By the way, that's a very good monitor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guamek

CD/DVD burner:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827151192
or
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827118032

What Compiler said, anything will get the job done. Get the cheaper one.

Rich-M · 09-Nov-2009, 10:14 AM **#18**

I have to agree with Win2K here. If you want cheap well Amd is fine on the bottom end and can save you money but for performnace I have been finding little difference in price lately on the higher end.
Here is a unit I just put together for a forum build and it's under $800 for I7.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboD...t=Combo.280652

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...C1B-_-22136358
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130509
look for rebate here $10
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...L0A-_-27118030
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811124132
$12 rebate here
Case Fan:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811999108
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817153113
$15 rebate here
http://www.crucial.com/store/mpartsp...A594CAA5CA7304

Guamek · 04:02 PM

if time is not an important factor... is it wise to buy a new computer now?
Rich-M's build is under 800 and is i7, AMD cannot compete with it? and theres another thing, does anyone know if new AMD processors will be AM3 compatible? i'm trying to build a good computer on a budget but most importantly an easily upgradeable one.

Compiler · 09-Nov-2009, 04:13 PM **#20**

Nothing much is going to change... other than SATA 3 and USB3.0 which will help a lot for SSDs and external storage devices.

AMD is coming out with new chipsets soon after January, but nothing special. The 785 is basically a preview of the new 800 series chipsets.

Looks like USB3/SATA3 won't be native to intel & AMD chipsets until late 2010

* The 785 is just as O/C- able as the 790.

You can never wait for the perfect time...

I bought my intel setup because AMD didn't have a good quad core or other CPU against Core2. Now they do. So if I had waited about another 8 months... now I want the USB3 / SATA3 - but I'm in no rush since what I have today is good enough for another year or so.

Windows7 is out, DX11 video cards are trickling out. CPUs are cheap... yeah, its a pretty good time.

Guamek · 12:09 AM

ok... its decided then... ill go for and amd, if i need something better in 2010 ill just switch to a phenom II X6 series (which hopefully will be compatible with the motherboard i bought), and then when sata3 and usb3 becomes the new standard (1.5-2.5 yr?) ill switch to the amd fusion or its intel equal depending on whats a better deal. For now ill just overclock the 965 a lil and we'll see how does de X6 behave and do the same if its worth the try. mmmmm... that means ill have to buy fans and a good case? no liquid cooling -.-...
(just saw the benchmarks... is i7 that good that i would be wasting my money on amd? this is too dificult

) Rich-M may be right
Comments?

Compiler · 10-Nov-2009, 01:56 AM **#22**

As you hit $200 for an AMD CPU, you start approaching i7 / i5 pricing... but a good intel mobo for such chips are still in near the $200 range.

A P55 (lower end) board is $125~210... a higher end X58 board is about $165~400... in which an AMD board that is $120~180 would do about the same thing (no SLi).

So.. the i7 setup ends up costing about $200 more. DDR2 memory has gone expensive - so a DDR2 setup is not worth bothering anymore for a NEW build. If you go with P55 class board... which doesn't have the option of a 6-core i7 - well, you're screwed. And of course spending $200+ for a mobo that doesn't have native SATA 3 / USB 3 is not attractive.

Again... the real world differences between a $100 CPU vs a $1000 is not as great as it seems. Hence, also go for the AMD X4 955.... it's still a fast CPU. And in some benchmarks - AMD is up there with i7 performance.

Check these out: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/default.aspx?b=2

And if you go to a typical game like Fallout - the X4 955 is faster than i7-920. Even the $100 X2 550 is faster. or the $75 x2 250 is 79fps vs the 91fps for the $550 i7 870. So is the $475 difference in price worth the 21fps you won't notice? Not including the $100+ price difference for the motherboard.

So the $175 955 is a pretty good deal that is easy to over clock.

Use the standard AMD cooler for basic OC... like 3.2 > 3.4Ghz is easy. A better cooler for 3.6+Ghz. 3.8 is about where it'll end.

AMD is not changing their SOCKETS anytime soon. Check it out... AMD2+ CPUs work in AM2 mobos. AMD3 CPUs work in AMD2+ and AM3 mobos (AM2 = DDR2, AM3 = DDR3).

Mosquito555 · 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guamek

For now ill just overclock the 965 a lil and we'll see how does de X6 behave and do the same if its worth the try. mmmmm... that means ill have to buy fans and a good case? no liquid cooling -.-...
(just saw the benchmarks... is i7 that good that i would be wasting my money on amd? this is too dificult

) Rich-M may be right
Comments?

I agree with everything Compiler pointed out...

There's another reason why many people prefer AMD processors IMHO...Gaming!

Most gamers want to equip their machines with fast graphics cards and high end PSUs. In order to fit those parts to their budget they tend to buy cheaper (but still powerful) CPUs and mobos.

When it comes to gaming, a computer with a powerful graphics card and a cheaper AMD processor will perform better than one with a more powerful Intel processor but inferior graphics card.

In my opinion you fall into this category. I don't think that buying a Core i7 is the best think to do in your case. An AMD processor coupled with a card like the Radeon HD 5750 will last longer when it comes to gaming. Let alone that you won't have to upgrade your CPU soon anyway, IMHO a P II x4 955 will last for more than 2-3 years...Even if you don't overclock it. The GF 9600 GSO will perform similar to a Radeon HD 4670/Radeon HD 4650 DDR3. The Radeon HD 5750 will just kill those cards and of course it's compatible with Microsoft's new API, DirectX 11. IMO, a great deal for that price...

Note that If you do a lot of audio, you could cut more money from the CPU and invest it on a good professional sound card...

So, I liked the system Rich-M showed us but I still believe that our suggestions are better for you. Don't get me wrong, those 1156 i7s are great but I still believe AMD is better for guys like you and me, guys who look for a more "balanced" build.

You said you want to game - Buy the HD 5750, not only because it's fast today but because it will last longer than a cheaper card.

You said you want to overclock - A good CPU (Black Editions are marketed as o/c friendly), a good PSU to ensure stability, a good case to keep the temps low, good RAM which will run stable when overclocked/overvolted.

As for cooling, you certainly need a good case. Most good cases will come with some fans pre-installed. You can buy as many additional fans as you like, they are super cheap.

You can safely overclock a Phenom II without liquid cooling or even a good after market CPU cooler...Even the stock cooler will be enough for moderate overclocking. I insist however, you don't need to overclock a processor like the P II 955/965, they are powerful enough at stock speeds. Do not underestimate those chips.

Consider overclocking later, only if you feel that you need more power.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guamek

Ok... its decided then... ill go for and amd, if i need something better in 2010 ill just switch to a phenom II X6 series (which hopefully will be compatible with the motherboard i bought), and then when sata3 and usb3 becomes the new standard (1.5-2.5 yr?) ill switch to the amd fusion or its intel equal depending on whats a better deal.

Honestly, unless you are doing video/audio works for a living you won't need to upgrade in 2010 or even 2011. Even an AMD Athlon x2 5200/Core 2 Duo E6300 are still good for gaming and hobbyist audio/video editing.

Note that you don't need SATA3 either if you are using a regular hard drive. Today, even the fastest hard drives can't utilize the bandwidth/speed of the SATA2 interface. The only reason to go SATA3 is (as Compiler pointed out) if you plan on using an SSD drive.

I don't think that SSDs will become a standard until about 2011, most of them are very expensive and inferior when it comes to capacity. Only enthusiasts/professionals need (and are willing to pay for) SSDs these days.

It's pretty much the same for USB 3.0...

Guamek · 09:45 AM

(???)

Sound Card:
Got an audigy z2, no need to upgrade for now (not using it that much). And havent tweaked it yet!
(For Mosquito555 : Im thinking of making a really BASIC studio at home , any suggestions of what should i buy first? I have only used mac so using a pc for audio seems quite hard)

If someone knows about any good deals please comment.

Mosquito555 · 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guamek

Phenom II 955 BE
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103674

Enough said! Go for it! Honestly, this processor has enough firepower to keep your machine running for at least 4 years considering that you are not a hardcore gamer. You would be fine even with a cheaper CPU like the Phenom II x3 720, however, the 955 will extend the life of your system and for that price it's an excellent choice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guamek

Now... on the motherboard... ive found plenty

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...2E16813131363R
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...2E16813130223R
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...2E16813128398R
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128378
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128398
i read 790FX, 790GX, and 790 X are pretty much all the same except for the double or quad crossfire. I would like to buy another card in the near future, so 790FX is my better pick? on the other hand, 790 GX already has a Radeon in but im not sure if it supports 2 16x cards... its a fact im goint to overclock in the future... Which brand is better? gigabyte? msi?asus?

All of these brands are supposed to be good. There are rumors that Asus boards aren't as good as they used to be but I can't personally confirm it. Maybe a professional builder like Compiler could help you decide what brand you should buy.

When choosing a motherboard you should consider three things:

- CPU compatibility. I'd buy a board that supports my CPU right out of the box to avoid the hassle of updating the BIOS etc.

- RAM compatibility.

- Features. Don't pay for things that you don't need. I wouldn't pay more for Quad CF/SLI boards. Since you are no hardcore gamer why even consider Crossfire? If the HD 5750 isn't enough for you in the future just swap it for a more advanced card. In most cases a single high end card outperforms medium end cards in CF/SLI.

I'm a non hardcore gamer either. Believe me, my poor old HD 4650 runs everything I throw at it at medium or even high settings. (For example, I installed Dragon Age Origins yesterday, a game that was released ten days ago. I run it with everything on high but with no antialiasing). I may sacrifice antialiasing and I won't run my games on ultra high settings but as long as the card runs my games fast enough on my monitor's native resolution I'm happy. Remember, you are buying a faster processor and GPU than mine...You will be fine!

The "G" chipsets include an integrated graphics processor. It wouldn't hurt having one (you can disable it if you don't need it) but these chips are absolutely crap when it comes to gaming.

Plenty of usb and firewire ports on the other hand could be needed later.

Most of the boards on your post seem good. It's up to you to decide.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guamek

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_AMD_chipsets
The 7xx series fsb max is 2600mhz, will that affect the performance if i want to change to a new processor? does affect the current one ?

I'm not sure on this one...I guess Compiler can help you more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guamek

GPU:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814161307
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814121351
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102859
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814150447
Performance-wise what is the difference between 128 and 256 bit cards?
which is the best brand?

Again, all of these brands are supposed to be good. I'd personally go for a Sapphire or HIS card. The XFX card is based on a different GPU (Radeon HD 5770) which is faster but I don't think you need it. So just get a cheaper HD 5750.

The reason why I suggested buying a fast card right away is the size of your monitor. Since TFT/LCD monitors will distort image when you use other than their native resolution, you have to ensure that your card is fast enough to run games on this resolution. The HD 5750 will be enough IMHO, no need to buy a faster (but also hotter and probably noisier card).

The difference between 128 bit and 256 bit cards is the bandwidth of their memory bus. But a card with an 128 bit bus may be faster than a card with a 256 bit bus. It depends on the GPU architecture, memory type, even on the games you run. You will usually see 256 bit buses on high end gaming cards since they absolutely need the extra bandwidth.

Don't worry about that however, the HD 5750 is a fast card anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guamek

PSU:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139005
is it the best for my current and future need?

I think that you should follow Compiler's advice and get the 550 Watts model. Corsair makes top quality PSUs, if you don't need the extra Watts why pay for them? Even this unit will be more than enough for the machine you are about to buy. Since you aren't a hardcore gamer, I doubt that you will be buying a monstrous high end graphics card any time soon. The 550 Watts unit is a safe choice.

Of course, if you don't mind spending the extra cash on the 650 Watts unit, it's going to be an excellent choice as well. I bought it with future upgrades in mind. My current system doesn't need all that power. But I have to be honest, my choice was mostly made because I wanted to ease my mind! The 550 Watts would have been enough for me as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guamek

Case:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129021
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811119197
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129066
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129018
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129041
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129042
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811119152
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811119077
Isnt good airflow an important thing?
(???)

Antec makes excellent cases as far as I know. I would definitely buy one of their gaming cases if I had the money. However I can only speak for the Coolermaster boxes which I have worked with.

By the way, avoid mini cases. I don't think they are good for high end machines.

If I was you I'd try reading some reviews of the cases I'm interested to buy. That's the best way to compare them IMO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guamek

Ram:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820226092
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820220286
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820220411
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820104155
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820145218
I want the 8gb

(???)

Just stick with a good 4GB kit for now. You decided to go DDR3, you won't have problems upgrading to 8GB later if you need them.

Buying 8GB now is a bad idea for many reasons.

1) Price.
2) You will need a 64bit OS in order to use all this ram.
3) You definitely don't need 8GBs.

I'd go for the Mushkin kit. It's affordable and it needs 1.5 Volts to operate. That's the standard voltage for DDR3 RAM.

It's not that you will have problems by getting a slightly overvoltaged kit but I personally feel safer when using stuff rated at standard settings. This sometimes ensures compatibility as well.

If you however decide to slightly overvolt the RAM (if you overclock for example) it will be just fine, Mushkin is a well known manufacturer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guamek

Sound Card:
Got an audigy z2, no need to upgrade for now (not using it that much). And havent tweaked it yet!
(For Mosquito555 : Im thinking of making a really BASIC studio at home , any suggestions of what should i buy first? I have only used mac so using a pc for audio seems quite hard)

The Audigy 2 isn't a bad card.

But I was talking about something like this:

http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/...?CNTID=5024958

These are external audio interfaces which are extremely helpful if you want to do some quality home recordings.

For a cheap home studio I'd get one of those, a couple of cheap mics and of course the necessary software which you will use for mixing and mastering. I'd be happy to tell you more later, just tell me what kind of music you are going to record etc.

Guamek · 16-Nov-2009, 04:08 PM **#26**

i dont need 8gb... youre right.

Guamek · 18-Nov-2009, 08:31 PM **#27**

I decided to upgrade my laptop first, then build the computer. I have 2 weeks to do both and perfect timing to buy the 5850 card(im giving my old comp to a friend). My current and future needs are mostly with CAD applications, im an engineering student and a 64bit system with a good graphics support makes my life easier and im able to work faster.
I have a dell M1330 (T7500) with 2x1 gb pc5200 that for some reason are running at 333, and want to upgrade to 2x2 gb pc5200 and go win7 64 hoping it will give me better performance while running autocad and maple. Considering Geforce 8400M also uses up some of it i guess is a good desicion.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820146697

I also need to get to get a new battery, the current one is about to expire

win7 ill get it for 30 bucks...

any thoughts? suggestions?

Im still giving the other build good thought, it is true the i7 is an overkill but i got the feeling that AMD is giving us a suprise soon

, surpassing the current low i7 models and compatible with current mobos (cheaper than its competition too).

Guamek · 20-Nov-2009, 07:24 PM **#28**

No response... solved i guess.

Mosquito555 · 21-Nov-2009, 12:58 PM **#29**

Hi again!

Guamek, you got a lot of suggestions on this thread, I think you have all the information you need regarding your future build.

As I said, 4GB of RAM is the way to go. I understand that CAD and similar applications will require lots of RAM but I still believe that getting 8GB for non professional work is an overkill. As I previously stated, upgrading RAM is usually easy and cheap. You can buy 8GB later, when DDR3 prices fall.

It's also impossible to know if a platform will be future proof or for how long. Yes, AMD will probably release a new line of processors that will outperform the lower end i7 chips...Then Intel will release even faster chips etc...Anyway, at the moment AMD's platform seems more appealing to me. I speculate that we will be able to upgrade our CPUs for about two years...But that's just me...And of course this technology advances so fast that it can't be ensured that a platform will be upgradeable after two-three years.

It's quite simple for me...Get the most balanced build you can afford. I still believe that a Phenom II based machine is the best solution for you. If you choose the CPU we suggested I doubt that you will need to upgrade it any time soon. The same goes for the graphics card and PSU.

You heard all of our suggestions, now it's up to you to decide. CAD like applications will certainly be benefited by a fast Core i7 but you may need to sacrifice another component in order to fit this processor in your budget. Of course, that doesn't mean that a high end quad core Phenom II will do badly, it will just be a bit worse than the i7.

When it comes to gaming, a PII with a fast card is a better solution than a Core i7 with a slower graphics card.

Now regarding the OS and your laptop upgrade...What's better for you, to buy Windows 7 x64 for your faster desktop or pay the same amount of money in order to get Win7 x64 and 4GB of RAM for your laptop?

I understand that if you are constantly on the move upgrading your laptop is probably worth it. On the other hand your laptop will still be a lot slower than your desktop.

Also keep in mind that a 64bit OS requires more system resources than a 32bit one. To put it simply, as long as you are using native 64bit applications on a 64bit OS then yes, you will see an improvement. But 32bit applications may run slower in a 64bit OS.

IMO if you are willing to buy Win7 x64, get them for your desktop. Buy more RAM for your laptop if you like but don't install a resource heavy OS on it unless it's absolutely necessary.

Compiler · 21-Nov-2009, 05:09 PM **#30**

In some benchmark testing, the AMD X4 955~965 is on par with the i7-920 (which is above i5s)... of course things chance when OC as both can do it.

Tag Cloud
access acer asus bios bsod computer crash driver drivers error ethernet excel freeze gaming hard drive hardware hdmi internet java laptop malware memory modem monitor motherboard mouse network operating system printer problem ram registry router security slow software sound svchost.exe trojan usb video virus vista wifi windows windows 7 windows 7 32 bit windows 7 64 bit windows xp wireless

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

Search
Search for:

Find the solution to yourcomputer problem!

Find the solution to your
computer problem!