[afcwhizzer]

Hi Tech Support Guys.

This came to me today, while i was at work doing completetly unrelated tasks.

How do you install the operating system, or infact how do you do anything with a brand new build with NO built in graphics?

maybe this is a silly question, but i'll put it like this...

I am planning to purchase for the purpose of my first home pc build......

Gigabte MA790XT- UD4P MOBO, which has no built in graphics, I am told to install the operating system first, followed by the MOBO drivers , but don't know how you can do any of these two things, without any display, or even if you can get a bios screen, obviously the Graphics card will have to be connected to plug the monitor into it, so can anyone tell if I can get a bios screen, and install the OS.

On a side note, say this is not as problematic as I am expecting, how do you get the OS not to install all the MOBO compoonants and the graphic card before you get to use the discs provided.


for your information, this is my wishlist so far for my new pc

Gigabyte MA790XT - UD4P MOBO

AMD Phenom II X4 965 CPU

ATI Raedon 4890 on the Sapphire Vapor-X Card (This is the chip BG-0 recomended plus if he remembers the discussion about noisy fans why I've opted for the Vapor-X supposed to be quiet!!)

Antec Earthwatts EA750 750w PSU

and this is all going into

Antec Three Hundred Cool & Quiet Case....BETTER BE!!

that's what is good as decided, fairly modest but reasonably powerfull, without breaking the bank!!

I stil have to decide on what Brand of DDR3 Memory I'm going to use, and..

HDD, DVD/BDROM, EXTRA FANS, CARD READER, and anything else which may have slipped my at the moment!

let me know what you think,

Cheers Keith

BG-0 just kidding about remembering the convo, you deal with loads of stuff evryday, still here a wee reminder

http://forums.techguy.org/hardware/8...oisy-fans.html

[BG-0]

As the tech has changed quite some since the conversation, I'd recommend a few changes/other things:
I'd recommend to get this RAM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231193 This RAM is tested compatible by Gigabyte themselves, good price, etc.
965 is probably a bad choice. For its price, you can get an Intel i5-750, pair with Gigabyte P55M-UD2 (you'll give Crossfire capability up, but it's not something you'll want to use anyways... Of course you can spend some extra: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128400) If you want to go AMD, get the 955, minimal performance difference, significant diff. in cost.
Radeon 4890 isn't something I'd recommend to buy anymore, as the HD5xxx series is out. You're a bit between 5770 and 5850, make the choice. The performance per dollar will be something like 10% lower, but you won't want a card without DX11 support... Or get a 5970 ^^ Only 600+$. Yes, it will be a bit hard to give up the 4890, but... Well, if you're up for upgrading your graphics in something like 6 months when you're getting jealous of others with cheaper cards than yours cost currently because of the awesomeness of DX11 ;D
Antec Earthwatts 750 wouldn't be my bet on the power supply side, better quality and pretty much the exact same real output with Corsair 650TX (or 750TX, not cheaper but better for the same price)
Can't really know what's your view on quiet. With the fans on low or medium, I see it as quiet. Not even nearly silent, but not by any means distracting. You'll know it's on on medium.

[BG-0]

And I totally forgot the first question. The card will output a signal when simply connected. Usually the motherboard will change the primary video device to PCIE automatically when it senses a card. (check this from the BIOS, just in case) You can install the mobo drivers first too, as the OS will use a low quality resolution through generic video drivers and you will see what you're doing.

[afcwhizzer]

Hi BG-0

Thanks for taking a look, glad i'm not going to be in the dark, when I turn on my pc (asssuming of course I've picked the right bits for each other and fitted them correctly).

I had looked into going INTEL with my new system and I had looked at the CPU you recomended, but it is only 2.66GHZ and for gaming I wanted faster, unfortunatly with Intel once the GHZ goes up so does the prices, and I AM on a budget, so when AMD came with a 3.4GHZ CPU for same price as Intel 2.66. ok atleast with Intel I could upgrade later with the same socket, where as with AMD (if and when) they come with a better processor they will likely change the socket. From as best as I was able to shop around the 965 was only £5 more the the 955, otherwise i would have gone for the 955

My Graphics chioce was based majoritively on your recomdation, and after reading your post have looked around and there is certaintly some 5 series cards that are well within my price range!
The 5770 is one in particular the 58xx is sneaking a little above my budget but may come down by Jan-Feb when I will probably actually be buying it, but I simply can't afford the 59xx.
although I have not seen a 5770 on a Sapphire Vapor-x card, which I have been atrracted to due to the fact it is far less noisy than normal stock cooling solutions.
I did appreciate that in a years time my 4890 would be behind in the race, but as long as I buy a crossfire board, I can always add another card to increase performance.

Corsair Memory 750W TX is a non-modular card am I to believe that all cables are hard wired, like my old PSU, won't that mean I might have problems trying to tuck cables away, or restrict airflow.

look forward to hearing from you
BTW
GA-P55A-UD4P is crossfire ready and about the same price as the p55-ud2, which price in UK£ is more than your paying in US$ so we are deffinatly getting ripped off for Intel in this country just now!!!

Keith

[Mosquito555]

Originally Posted by afcwhizzer

I had looked into going INTEL with my new system and I had looked at the CPU you recomended, but it is only 2.66GHZ and for gaming I wanted faster, unfortunatly with Intel once the GHZ goes up so does the prices, and I AM on a budget, so when AMD came with a 3.4GHZ CPU for same price as Intel 2.66. ok atleast with Intel I could upgrade later with the same socket, where as with AMD (if and when) they come with a better processor they will likely change the socket. From as best as I was able to shop around the 965 was only £5 more the the 955, otherwise i would have gone for the 955

Don't worry about that. A core i5 750 will perform close to a higher clocked Phenom II. Clock speed isn't as important now as it was in the past.

In fact, when choosing between two processors which perform close to each other according to various benchmarks, you should consider buying the one that's clocked lower.

Why? Because higher clocked chips usually produce more heat while operating and they don't have the same overclocking headroom as their lower clocked equivalents.

Anyway, my vote goes to the Phenom II x4 955 but if you can afford the 965 you can get it as well. Both processors will perform close to the i5 750 (sometimes a bit better) so it's your choice.

[afcwhizzer]

AAAHHHH I actually know wht you mean now, "You're a bit between 5770 and 5850"

I didn't quite understand that line, but now I get it the 4890 is actually better than 5770, but no way near as good as the 5850.

[Compiler]

BG-0 : I'd still take an AMD over an i5... a X6 core option is there for an AMD.

afcwhizzer: Go for the AMD 955bc... its quite a bit cheaper and pretty much just as fast. also, Mhz doesn't mean anything. A core i7 and 2.6Ghz is faster than an AMD at 3.0Ghz.

Or todays cheap $65~80 intel dual core CPUs at 2.0Ghz are FASTER than the 3year old $1000 3.8Ghz Pentium Extremes.

All video cards support minimum SVGA standards. Windows7 includes drivers for recent AMD cards to function good enough for desktop.

So yes... you install the OS first, mobo drivers, then video drivers, then audio.

[afcwhizzer]

Originally Posted by Mosquito555

Don't worry about that. A core i5 750 will perform close to a higher clocked Phenom II. Clock speed isn't as important now as it was in the past.

In fact, when choosing between two processors which perform close to each other according to various benchmarks, you should consider buying the one that's clocked lower.

Why? Because higher clocked chips usually produce more heat while operating and they don't have the same overclocking headroom as their lower clocked equivalents.

Anyway, my vote goes to the Phenom II x4 955 but if you can afford the 965 you can get it as well. Both processors will perform close to the i5 750 (sometimes a bit better) so it's your choice.

from the few sites I've looked at, the 965, 955, & the Intel I5 750 are all very similiar in price, and all inside my budget, DABS.COM actually has the 955 more expensive than the 965 WTF??

http://www.dabs.com/products/amd-phe...JRF.html?q=955

http://www.dabs.com/products/amd-phe...b-12-6B0X.html

[BG-0]

Originally Posted by afcwhizzer

from the few sites I've looked at, the 965, 955, & the Intel I5 750 are all very similiar in price, and all inside my budget, DABS.COM actually has the 955 more expensive than the 965 WTF??

http://www.dabs.com/products/amd-phe...JRF.html?q=955

http://www.dabs.com/products/amd-phe...b-12-6B0X.html

The 965 they offer is an OEM/Tray version, with no cooler included. It's just the CPU chip inside a padded envelope, whereas the 955 they offer comes in the box. (not the box they show, that's a 945 box or something like that) Anyways, use OCers.co.uk instead http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showpr...odid=CP-244-AM

[BG-0]

And off topic, haven't noticed earlier that USB3 and SATA3 are out... P55A-UD4P has them at least...
Worth the jump to the Intel side? No?

[afcwhizzer]

sorry i posted the wrong one....

http://www.dabs.com/products/amd-phe...5BH.html?q=965

That's PIB still slightly dearer than OverClockers...
which is surprising!! they are normally quite expensive,

I have to go right to checkout and calc shipping costs aswell, becuase, AriaPC and Microdirect, tried to charge between £24-£26 shipping because I live on an Island.

Dabs is £14, and Ebuyer is FREE+£10 if spend over £100, they're prices are slightly higher than DABS, but the shipping evemns it out, I'll see what else from my wishlist OC has, and price them up. Except I may still be tempted to go Intel. might look into USB3 & SATA3, see if it can tip the balance.

Still need to know if settling for a 4890 for now, then doubling up on crossfire in a couple of months is a good idea or not, vs waiting 3month to see if the 5870 price comes down to my level!

keith

[Compiler]

SATA 3 & USB3 are not native to chipsets set. Add-on chips are cards are in use now which adds more complexity and price to the board.

Oddly, AMDs upcoming 800 series chipsets do not support SATA/USB3 either... but perhaps that'll change.

[BG-0]

You won't want to Crossfire 4890s, the point of not getting a 4890 now is the lack of DX11 support.
Going Intel just for the USB3 and SATA3 may or may not be a good idea... You don't, and can't need them at the moment, and when you just might, no one knows how well the add-on chip handles those technologies.

[afcwhizzer]

ok if DX11 is really a decent improvment, since I didn't notice any improvement in DX10 after having DX9 for years on XP, then I'll hold off for a 5870 vapor-x card, I don't see any point in a 5770 if it is less powerfull than the 4890, so if DX11 is worth the wait then that's what I'll do. Hey and when I can afford to crossfire that should make for a cracking setup since the 4870 X2 is mind numbingly fast... although extremky noisy!

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/HIS/HD_5770/30.html

I'm still sticking by the Vapor-x for the quiet idle, I do not mind a noisy fan when doing the work required of it to keep things cool!

[BG-0]

No one can know for sure whether it's worth it or not, the technology itself is significantly more of an improvement over DX10 than 10 was over 9, but with the way things are going to hell because so few companies make real PC games anymore (vs console ports, decent or poor ones), one can't say how it will be implemented.
The Vapor-X is not the only well cooled and decently quiet card series out there. There are, and will be many others, even better ones...

Are you still running on your 8800GT? I would personally go for a 57*0 or something like that to just keep you going until you've saved some money for the 5870 or whatever is the best choice when you have the money gathered... (post back again then...)