[Rich-M]

Originally Posted by redoak

etaf: Thanks for the comments. Your rec re 3GB memory backed up a decision I made an hour ago when I read about some aspect of the machine needing to draw on the memory since it didn't have enough of its own. Even "took" over one GB in some cases.

I am going to buy a 12 cell battery, so, hopefully, battery life will not be a serious problem. Besides, Toshiba like HP, uses LEDs in the screen.

I keep thinking about more and more details as I try to make a choice of machine. Right now I don't like the numerical pad that comes with the Toshiba. I will never use it, and it must take space away from the regular keyboard, which means small keys. I don't want small keys, since I have big fingers! I type one fingered, too, but from both hands simultaneously.

Decisions, decisions, decisions!!

{redoak} .

Just a thought here...if you are buying the better battery, I assume that means you intend to use the be very portable with the laptop and if that is so, I would suggest you reconsider 17".
I am a tech and work in the field and frequently carried my 17" laptop into cl;ient homes as knowing whether or not the internet connection really worked saves me a lot of time debating over whether the connection is bad or the pc is. I had to sell 17" as I found it just too unwieldy to carry around and set up all the time. Again this is my experience and I am sharing it is all.

[aka Brett]

Good advice
A 17 is a unit a person may take with them on a rare occasion.
Also a 17 will eat a battery faster just due to screen size...as the "square" rule applies

Example...a 10 by 5 {2 to 1} has 50 square inches
Not lets do a 20 by 10{2 to1} having 200 square inches
4 times the area
this makes a 17 have 1.284 times the area has a 15
28.4 % more area to light up
Now if the resolution is higher it is going to work the graphic engine harder...furthering battery depletion.
Also some 17 inch models dont have the efficient type processors...are often equipped with a battery hog...add these up and we have alot of watts being used.
Laptop stands and pads are harder to find for a 17 inch.
These units have more flex than smaller units and are not as durable for everyday handling.
These units are much heavier to have laying on your gut while laying in bed watching TV...the pad or stand is also heavier{if you can find one}it is needed to prevent to vents underneath from being covered while in usuage.
I hate the keyboards of smaller units myslelf..I use a 15...but draw the line at 14..as anything under will have a awkward keyboard to use.
The only time I would recommend a 17 is for vision problems...one can lower the resolution to increase the icons,text, etc on the screen....the end result is better on a large screen verses a small screen...with less horizontal scrolling needed
A 14 inch IMO is the ideal balance of usability,durability,weight and battery life.
Some will argue even smaller.,,but they are just to hard to use if you are also using the desktop keyboard at the house as well...you wont be able to hit the keys on either and it can be frustrating.
The keys on my 15 inch dell have the same spacing as a regular keyboard,,,some keys have to be shared by the function key..these are seldom used keys for my activities so its not a problem.
They keyboard layout on a regular setup{desktop} is 17 inches
My dell with a 15 and a half in diagonal screen...measures 14 in across from edge of case to edge of case.
A 17 inch will be about 15 and a quarter...not enough room to do a full proper keyboard either....while a little better regarding more keys...its not the real deal though as is common belief

[aka Brett]

Originally Posted by redoak

Brett: Thanks for making a post. I definitely want a 17" screen. Yesterday I spent a good bit of time at Dell's site, particularly the business section, as recommended by a friend. I did not find what I wanted/liked, etc.

Already this morning I have looked seriously at what Toshiba offers, and I am definitely leaning that way now. The HP dependability ranking at the link above is very troubling, so HP is no longer in my mind. I have put together a Toshiba package that exceeds what I now have, which is more than adequate, for just $599. I have a few ?s for a sales rep when I can reach them at 0800 EST USA.

{redoak}

I wouldnt put to much weight on any particular brand...a computer is just an assembly of parts..these parts are made by different suppliers and put to gether by dell,hp toshiba etc...it still going to have an amd or an intel cpu....a wd seagate hitachi or samsung hd..the same with the wireless cards etc...dvd writers..they are all alike........these mgs buy what is the least cost at the time....there are many models that have different hard drives in them for example.

Some units are easier to strip the bloatware off of than others..i can clean a dell fast and am not reliant on any dell software having to remain running....there is no custom recovery software to bloat the system.
Not all mfg approach this the same way..some may have an application or 2 running to remind you to make recovery disks...once made it still runs.
They also manage to have some kind of process running for every piece of hardware on the machine.
Some are easy to clean up others you are not able to clean as well..............so in essence bloatware should be a consideration when purchasing a unit.
Support.........so have decent support others are bad..I am just not talking about support during a warranty....support for drivers for older operating systems etc...documentation on how to change an lcd panel etc.
Some dont care..once the sale is done.they just dont care...I put alot of weight on the ability to have self support through the mfg...
Dell and IBM{lenovo} shine in this area..with toshiba also taking the same route..an example being toshoba quick to fix a buggy driver...as well as a decent forum like dell.
If you can find a unit with the specs you want,looks good and fits in your budget by one of the 3 listed above..I would go that route.. ..dont pay to much attention to reviews by whiners..just think of all the people that didnt have a problem so didnt make a comment...remember they all have basically the same hardware inside anyway...it now comes down to looks and money.......some things never change

[redoak]

I am hard pressed to find words to express my appreciation for the time you folks have taken to make sure I have the best advice available as I choose a laptop. So, I'll simply say THANKS!

The lap top will be used as a desk top, as is my present 17" Asus. However, it will also go outside in good weather so I can enjoy a MLB game via the Internet while also enjoying the scenic wonders of my property as well as the wildlife. You see, I live in the country on 100 acres of mixed fields, hardwoods, pine plantations and a six acre pond viewable from the front yard. There are three large trees that shade the entire front yard from summer sun. Also, there is virtually always a breeze, even on hot summer days. [My website is devoted to "The Farm." The url is www.westglenville.us]

The 12 cell battery should carry me through a 3-4 hour game. A six would not. And I'll only "lug" the laptop some 50 feet from the door used to go outside.

Obviously, I have moved from a "low powered laptop" to one with very adequate specs. In fact, better than my Asus, which is more than adequate for me. The new machine, probably a Toshiba, will back up the Asus should it go down. Also, the Ws7 OS is apt to be around much longer than the "XP Pro" in the Asus. At 80 I am still looking to the future!

My next challenge will be to choose a router. But I have time for that, thankfully. I am about warn out at this point!

{redoak}

[aka Brett]

The old laptop batteries didnt mind a deep cycle...however the lithium based ones of today have fewer cycles when deep discharges are done...the lower you get the battery the sharper the curve for battery life....the ideal rate is to maintain 40 to 70 percent charge..this is impracticable though,as we want to top it off...70 to 100 percent charge is not near as hard as 0 to 40 percent.
Batteries that get discharged to very low level 15 percent and under for example have short lives.....a good compromise is to plug back into the wall at about 30 percent..this gives us 70 percent to use,while allowing alot of charge and discharge cycles......people that discharge to 2 percent etc can wear out a battery in a year or less easily
With a large battery that you mention you should be able to sit outside for a longtime....dim the screen if you can...not always possible though while outside as they can be hard to see as it is...it seem like no matter how bright we have it inside as far as light etc...nothing compares to good ole fashioned sunlight to making an lcd panel look dim.

Vista and 7 have a great power mgt system..a person can actually assign a percent of cpu while on battery...actually this controls the multiplier....so 95 percent doesnt mean 95 percent it will still be 100 as as the percentage is lowered enough to go down one multiplier level...for simple tasks one can lower the value to 40 percent..lowering battery drainage...also on many units a core can be disabled in bios...increasing battery life further....streaming video will drain a battery...lowering values help with the battery and can always bumped back up if the graphic engine cant keep up with the movement.

[aka Brett]

This is a steal for a 17 inch.....is this one of them you have looked at?
http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/...to?poid=467538

I do suggest the 15 dollar upgrade for the black keyboard as they are much easier to see.

[redoak]

YES! The only reservation I have is the number pad. I will never use it. The actual keys of the keyboard must be smaller because of the lost space due to the # pad. I have large fingers and type with one finger on both hands simultaneously, so size of keys is important.

Below is one configuration I used to obtain a price. I have decided I could reduce the RAM to 3GB, if I were to buy this model. I included the modem because I use HughesNet satellite, no cable or DSL reaches me, and when Hughes goes down because of atmospheric conditions I will be able to use a free Juno account to at least ck e-mail and make a quick visit here to TSG. I would miss both very much, if I had to wait for a snowstorm, etc. to end!.

Thanks for the tipoff!

{redoak}

Toshiba Satellite L550-ST2743 Config. #2
Specifications customized
* Intel® Pentium® Processor T4400 (2.2 GHz, 1MB L2 Cache, 800MHz FSB)
* Genuine Windows® 7 Home Premium 64-bit
* 4GB DDR3 1066MHz SDRAM (2048MBx2)
* 250GB HDD (5400rpm, Serial-ATA)
* DVD SuperMulti (+/-R double layer) drive
* Fusion Finish™ in Midnight Breeze with Glossy Black Keyboard
* High Capacity Lithium Ion Battery (12-cell)
* Realtek® 802.11b/g/n wireless LAN
* Integrated Modem
* Microsoft® Office Ready with Microsoft Office Professional 2007 60-day Trial Edition
* 1 Year Standard Limited Warranty

Accessories

Price $640.25

[aka Brett]

Thats a nice unit...at a bargain price..i dont know if they crowded in the keys..on my 15 in dell it is standard spacing...i will do a little research on the17 inch keypad

[redoak]

I sure appreciate your taking the time to look into the keyboard. I wouldn't "have a clue" as to how to proceed!

{redoak}

[etaf]

a friend of mine has this machine Toshiba Equium P300
which has that number pad - the keys seem fine on that - but because I'm used to a sony with a wide keyboard - i kept missing the enter key - but that would get used to very quickly - and I only had it a day to fix it
on 32bit software 3GB memory should be fine
Re the battery - excellent post by "aka brett" - my sony battery is set to only charge to 80% - so again worth considering when calculating the battery life time expectation.

[redoak]

Friends, and I so consider all of you, I have come to the conclusion that I would NOT spend much time outside watching MLB games via the Internet, because it came to me that very few games are played in the daytime. Therefore, an oversized battery is not essential at all. Furthermore, I could always run a 120V. extension cord quite easily.

Secondly, the contemplated purchase will be a backup to my present very adequate Asus laptop that is used as a desktop because of space limitations. It will in time become my primary machine. Therefore, it should have specifications that are at least as good as my present computer or even better, with "Ws 7," for better or worse, as I look into the future.

Thirdly, I definitely want a 17" display and I do NOT want a separate numeric keypad.

Therefore, price is a secondary concern, but not irrelevant. I have spent more time this morning looking at what Asus has to offer that comes as close as possible to my desires. I have found the Asus K72F-A1 having everything I desire, except a dial-up modem. But my present computer has that, if it is needed. I am only passibly informed re hardware specs, so I am placing a list of them below. I will appreciate your looking at them and then informing me of any deficiencies given my needs.

I know you have spent a lot of time assisting me on what is now a dead issue. I only wish I had reached the conclusions I have this morning before I ever posted.

I thank you most sincerely and apologize for the unnecessary effort I caused you.

{redoak}
FYI, Newegg has this for sale at $950, with free shipping.
- - - - - - --

General
Operating System Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
CPU Type Intel Core i3-350M(2.26GHz)
Screen 17.3"
Memory Size 4GB DDR3
Hard Disk 500GB
Optical Drive DVD Super Multi
Graphics Card Intel HD
Video Memory Shared memory
Communication Gigabit LAN and WLAN
Dimensions 16.70" x 11.20" x 1.50"
Weight 6.90 lbs.
CPU
CPU Type Intel Core i3
CPU Speed 350M(2.26GHz)
Chipset
Chipset Intel HM55
Display
Screen Size 17.3"
Wide Screen Support Yes
Resolution 1600 x 900
LCD Features LED backlight
Operating Systems
Operating System Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
Graphics
GPU/VPU Intel HD
Video Memory Shared system memory
Graphic Type Integrated Card
Hard Drive
HDD 500GB
HDD RPM 5400rpm
Memory
Memory 4GB
Memory Speed DDR3 1066
Memory Type 204-Pin DDR3 SO-DIMM
Memory Slot (Total) 2
Max Memory Supported 8GB
Optical Drive
Optical Drive Type DVD Super Multi
Optical Drive Interface Integrated
Communications
LAN 10/100/1000Mbps
WLAN 802.11bgn Wireless LAN
Ports
USB 4
Video Port 1 x VGA, 1 x HDMI
Audio Ports Yes
Audio
Audio Integrated Sound card
Speaker Internal Speakers
Input Device
Touchpad Yes
Keyboard Standard
Supplemental Drive
Card Reader 4 in 1 card reader, SD, MMC, MS, MS Pro
Webcam 0.3MP
Power
Battery 6-cell lithium ion
Physical spec
Dimensions 16.70" x 11.20" x 1.50"
Weight 6.90 lbs.
Manufacturer Warranty
Accidental Damage Warranty 1 year ASUS Accidental Damage Warranty - Drops, Fire, Spill, Surge
Parts 2 years limited

[etaf]

based on everything you mentioned before and new requirements - looks OK to me....

Thirdly, I definitely want a 17" display and I do NOT want a separate numeric keypad.

BUT doesnt it have a number pad on the side - looking at the images on the newegg site - no different is it ???

Add on the Toshiba - I added 4GB of memory (I would want at least 3GB with 32bit) and the modem to the toshiba linked by aka brett and yourseld - it came out at $569 - so thats almost $400 cheaper !!!!!!!

I would need some one else to comment on the different CPUs and just how much difference that would make

If you wanted to upgrade from 250GB to 500GB that's another $56 but i would not bother - for storage you can get 1TB USB drives cheap enough - not sure about US market - not an expert

I notice they have 17.3" Laptops on Newegg which include a bluray player (for HD ) I have that on my Sony and can play HD bluray disks onto the TV - via HDMI - found this useful ......

I know you have spent a lot of time assisting me on what is now a dead issue. I only wish I had reached the conclusions I have this morning before I ever posted.

Thats how it tends to go - as you review the available hardware and review you requirements - done this with family - A LOT of times, mainly when it starts with the comment - I just need a basic machine - my daughter was the worse - cheap machine just for email and surfing, and as i researched the deals - that developed into needs to have a webcam - OH and did I mention it would be nice to have a memory card reader and......... you can guess how it went.. and then we went through the same proces just recently with a camera !!!!!

Anyway - keep posting away as you find kit , that's the point of these forums ......

[aka Brett]

Originally Posted by etaf

a friend of mine has this machine Toshiba Equium P300
which has that number pad - the keys seem fine on that - but because I'm used to a sony with a wide keyboard - i kept missing the enter key - but that would get used to very quickly - and I only had it a day to fix it
on 32bit software 3GB memory should be fine
Re the battery - excellent post by "aka brett" - my sony battery is set to only charge to 80% - so again worth considering when calculating the battery life time expectation.

I did a visual comparison with my 15 in dell{standard spacing} and the 17 Toshiba.
The spacing from the edge of the case to where the keys start look the same..giving the same amount of unsused space..on the toshiba there are 3 more rows of keys{standard square} on the right side...this would equate to about the extra width of the unit...It is my belief it is standard spacing ...if not key crowding would be a few millimeters at best....I have the same thoughts as you that they key board set up is fine

[aka Brett]

Originally Posted by redoak

I sure appreciate your taking the time to look into the keyboard. I wouldn't "have a clue" as to how to proceed!

{redoak}

I am pretty sure its standard spacing....if its not..its very very close.

[aka Brett]

Originally Posted by etaf

............

Add on the Toshiba - I added 4GB of memory (I would want at least 3GB with 32bit) and the modem to the toshiba linked by aka brett and yourseld - it came out at $569 - so thats almost $400 cheaper !!!!!!!

I would need some one else to comment on the different CPUs and just how much difference that would make
......

I would also buy the ram upgrade....they are not hammering you with the price,,its very affordable...and may prevent a warranty dispute later... verses the user adding ram..the processor is fine...I have a smaller core duo that i was powering vista{now 7] with fine...not giant cache like the big dollar processors..but a decent value and common for basic laptops....The pentiums I believe use a little more wattage however..but perform very well

At less than 600 bucks...its the steal of the year IMO...if i were shopping for a 17...i would not hesitate to buy that unit....its a good bang for the buck....and toshiba support is pretty decent as well