[navigator]

OK, so I bought Fedora Core 5 from OSDisc.com and received 9 discs, 5 marked install, and 4 marked source. So I install the OS on my 14GB drive, /dev/hdc1. It formats OK and installs the programs I selected, which essentially is all of them. When the prgm says Congatulations!! I reboot, RIGHT INTO MY WINDOWS XP ,on my 160GB dr ,/dev/hda1.
So I go to update on the install disc and get this message. " installer is unable to detect the boot loader currently in use on your sys" ??
I go to the next screen, which has two options, skip boot loader updating and create new boot loader config. I click the latter. New screen, Two options ,GRUB boot loader will be installed on the /dev/hda1, and no boot loader will be installed. Tjhere is a message which says can config other oper sys,, Allowed to select an OS to boot from the list. To add addn OS not automatically detected, click "add" to change the OS booted by default by the desired OS. I click "add' and get two options ,Fedora core /dev/Volgroup00/LogVo100 and other which shows /dev/hda1. Which I click and I get an image window, enter label to be displayed in boot loader . The device (or HD dev and partitions ) is the device from which it boots.
I get two options, label and device Shows ( /dev/hda1,which is my WinXP HD !!) I change this to read /dev/hdc1 and label Fedora. I click default Fedora , /dev/hdc1 which should have the Fedora Core.
New screen. Install boot loader on: two options, /dev/hda1 (master boot record (MBR) and /dev/hdc1 First section of boot partition. I click this as the default, There is a third option: If you wsh to add default options to the boot cmd, enter them into "General Kernel params field) , there is a box with "Gnrl Kernel Params. I click next
and get a loading box showing Retrieve install info", clck next to begin upgrade to Fedora Core. Click next. Shows "transfering install upgrade to HD, then Install image boot loader, Whoops!! I get "WARNING" No kernel pkgs were installed on your sys. Your boot drive config will not be changed, and it rejects the cd from the drive.
I'm at a total loss!! If you can make any sense out of this scenario, I would appreciate some HELP11

[saikee]

Simple. Just install FC5 boot loader in hda or the MBR.

When a PC boots the BIOS goes to the first bootable disk, which should be the hda, and loads its first 512 bytes commonly known as the MBR. Whichever you put there controls all the rest.

Since XP was originally has the control of the MBR and you need to point a gun at its head to make it boot FC5 the easier way out is to put FC5's boot loader Grub to replace the MBR.

By default FC5 will include XP as a booting alternative. You also need to point a gun at FC5's head to stop it from booting XP.

If you select Grub and tell the installer to put the boot loader in the MBR everything will work out. If it doesn't we could put it right for you in no time.

By the way you can get the XP MBR back any time you want so there is no need to panic if you are temporarily lose access to XP if something gets out of hand. Just do not format or change the disk under any circumstance.

[navigator]

Thnx!! How can I put the boot loader on a cd and boot from it when I want, My previous RED Hat OS allowed me to boot from a floppy or cd.

[saikee]

You can put Grub on its own CD without any operating system.

Grub Manual Section 3.1 refers.

My last link in the signature has the information of two methods how to burn it into a CD.

When Grub is booted up on its own you have a Grub prompt and are effectively working with a mini operating system.

The instruction to each operating system is exactly as the commands contained in /boot/grub/menu.lst. You simply list a copy out and type it in line by line in a Grub prompt.

After working with Grub for a while you can boot any Linux even without the need of the boot loader installed.

You can practice with FC5 as pressing "c" in the Grub menu will drop you into a Grub prompt.

Ideally you should print out a copy of the Grub manual so as to know how to use the commands.

[navigator]

Thnx Saikee, you are obviously very learned in the art of Linux. I am but an old man of 80, a PhD chemist ,retired. I can still learn, but it takes a little longer.Obviously,from these comments you must understand I'm stll having problems with getting the FC5 to boot.
I followed your instructions, as best as I knew how, but ended up with the same result After I initiated repair and install from the disc, I eventually get to the place where where I'm given the option of loading GRUB or not. I make hda1 (remember hdc1 is my other hard disc on which I downloaded FC5,I think!) the default,it is labeled default. I'm taking your word for it that FC5 will include XP as a booting alternative. After all the rigamarole, I still get the message:
"No kernel packages were installed on your system. Your boot configuration will not be changed"
What boot configuration? XP?
Some addditional questions. You mention a GRUB MANUAL 3.1. Can I aquire this thru XP, since I cannot as yet boot FC5?
Nowhere in the installation package is there an opportunity to create partitions, which I've done on previous Red Hat distros. I assume that the drive was partitioned following format, which it did do. But there is noway I can check this.
And finally,at last, what are the 4 "source discs" which came with the set. There has been no mention of these discs whatsoever.
I hope you dont mind my obvious display of ignorance, but I really do want to "master" this OS. Thnx in advance.

[saikee]

navigator,

I am only a few months ahead of you so don't worry. Unlike MS systems Linux is open source and knowledge is freely available and exchanged.

You can Google, in any operating system, the "Grub Manual" and print a copy for yourself. Grub is a super powerful boot loader and you need a manual to get the best out of it.

In order to multi-boot you must allow Linux to take over the MBR of the first bootable disk and so you should elect MBR as the destination for Grub. Putting it in hda1 will not boot but in hda is OK as hda denotes the whole disk and is the master of the primary IDE cable.

Here are some short comments

(a) The source discs contain the source codes of the distro and should have no interest to beginners.
(b) You can use any Linux Live CD, say from a Linux magazine or download from any site you select from distrowatch.com, to do partitioning of the hard disk. I highly recommend a user to have the partitions ready before the installation. That way you have to know where the Linux resides.
(c) For beginners I advocate a single partition per distro. One swap for any number of Linux. Personally I do not use multiple partitions for one Linux. A single partition is a lot easier to control, to boot and to maintain.
(d) Can't recall where you could find it but it is the duty of every installer to let the user to create the partitions, usually in graphic mode. My own favourite is to use cfdisk program in terminal mode. cfdisk is available in 80% of the Linux I come across.

Don't be afraid to ask questions. We are all here to pass on knowledge we learned previously from the forum.

[GripS]

Navigator i feel your pain. I have used this to get grub to work on my machine: http://adrian15.raulete.net/grub/tik...php?page=En&bl

It's called Super Grub and it will automatically install/fix grub for you.

[saikee]

Super Grub could be useful to a user not wanting to read the Grub Manual as I am using the standard Grub (version 0.97) to boot a selection of over 100 systems of Dos, Windows, Linux, BSD, Solaris and Darwin.

Personally the Grub Manual has taught me more about booting than anything I know in computing.

Grub is a mini operating system able to work on its own without any operating system attached to it. We can put it in a floppy or a CD or an empty hard disk partition. On its own there is no PC system I come across that cannot be booted by it.

The nice thing about Grub is it is simple and easy to understand. It is a shame to make it more complicated than what it is.

The only criticism I have with the Grab Manual is that it tells us the ingredients and leaves to do the cooking so many users would not know what to do with the information. However I personally find it very rewarding to try out various commands of Grub because if something is logical and can be done Grub can make it happen. If Grub can't deliver it then there is a good reason for it.

If a user knows how to use Grub he/she can boot any Linux without a boot loader installed, has a need for the MBR or has a difficulty to boot up any PC he/she has never seen before (even with only MS systems inside).

[navigator]

OK,Ive downloaded sgd_0[1].9428.iso.bz2. How do I unzip it? I think it has to be done in Linux, to which I cannot gain access!!!

[saikee]

Use a Linux Live CD.

There are free downloadable software available for MS systems too to unzip bz2 files.

[craigbass76]

I would guess, if you installed Linux correctly, that your grub.conf file is just pointing at the wrong file.

9 fedora discs, huh? Is one of them a rescue disc?

[navigator]

First, there was no disc containing "RESCUE".
SEcond, heres what I understand from what Y'ALL have been trying to tell me.
1. Ive got to get GRUB onto the first partitiion or replace the MBR on the first drive, (hda1)
2. Once there I can, FC% will give me the option of booting into FC% or XP. RIGHT?
3. I have repeatedly tried to get GRUB onto the MBR of the first drive, but apparently I'm not successful, since I alwats boot into XP with no other options available .
4. I downloaded Super GRUB (sgd.0[1].9428.iso.bz2] but have not found a way to unziip it. I have gone to the BZIP2 webpage and found nothing like a FREE download.
I'm thinking of going into BIOS, telling it to boot hdc1 (slave IDE) and then do the reverse when I want to boot into XP. Am I nuts or something?

[saikee]

Installing Grub in hda1 is not the same as installing in hda.

The latter is the MBR because it is for the whole disk.

Installing to the former will hide Grub away or even destroy the XP boot loader which should sit inside the boot sector of hda1.

If you have Grub then press c will drop you into a Grub prompt. In a Grub prompt you can boot any system manually.

If you have installed FC5 in hdc1 then it is known as (hd1,0). Grub calls the 1st disk (hd0) and its 1st partition hda1 as (hd0,0). hdb could be be your CD drive if your FC5 is in hdc1 which will be reported as the 2nd disk by the BIos.

If you have installed FC5 in hdc1 and has a GRub prompt then it can be booted by these lines in Grub prompt

root (hd1,0)
configfile (hd1,0)/boot/grub/menu.lst
boot

You can try to boot up FC5 this way.

If for whatever reason you can't then you can still access FC5 by booting up the PC with any Lnux Live CD. To access FC5 you need the root privileage (administraor in Windows term). This can be granted in terminal mode in many distros by typing

su

Once you have root privieage you can make a temporary partition in /mnt directory of the Live CD Linux, mount your hdc1, change root to it and you will then be inside FC5.

Once inside FC5 you can instruct it to install Grub in the MBR.

The complete set of BASH commands (which are different to Grub commands in a GRub prompt), after you become the superuser (by command su), is

mkdir /mnt/temp
mount /dev/hda1 /mnt/temp
chroot /mnt/hda1
grub-install /dev/hda
exit
reboot

If the above commands are accepted then on a reboot your Grub will be in control of the MBR.

You can if you choose to try out FC5 before the exit and reboot statements above. Depending on the Live CD chosen you may even use FC5's desktop by typing the Bash command "startx".

In order to boot XP the Grub configuration file, which is a simple text file you can edit, needs to have these lines if FC5 installer fails to provide you

titile My XP in hda1
root (hd0,0)
chainloader +1

Please do not change the disk order if you are new to Linux. Both XP and Linux have their hard disk order stamped permanently after installation and altering the disk order can lead to booting failures. You need additional skill to alter the disk order in Linux although for XP this can be done by introducing the "map" statements in the configuration file /boot/grub/menu.lst.

By the way I have colored red the section section which is the general method of rescuing a Linux that fails to boot. FC5 installation CD when booted up has a rescue section that does the identical thing. However I recommend the Live CD because it works for every Linux plus the method is equally good for the other boot loader Lilo. If Lilo is the boot loader simply replace "grub-install" with "lilo-b".

Never forget you can get inside any distressed Linux by a Live CD. Learn to use it!

[craigbass76]

Do you get a message saying "booting blahblah in X seconds?" It would occur after the initial boot screen (Dell, Compaq, whatever) but before the windows "loading" screen.

If you do, hit any button and you'll get a menu. Then up and down arrow key to select, and enter to boot to that selection. Hopefully, this problem is as simple as this, and since no one else has asked, I am.

[adrian15_sgd]

Originally Posted by navigator

I still get the message:
"No kernel packages were installed on your system. Your boot configuration will not be changed"

In my opinion you have done a custom install where you can select which packages to install and which not to install.

Even if you can restore grub to the mbr it would be unsafe because there's no kernel to boot.

You can download last version of Super Grub Disk select Gnu/Linux and then Boot Linux Directly which will try to boot Linux kernel for you. (Depending on your configuration it may not boot even the kernels are there. But if it does not boot there's a 80% chance that you have not installed any kernel.)

If you have problems with unzipping SGD iso try with winrar, winace or even 7-zip.

adrian15

Super Grub Disk. Restore Grub to the MBR. Reinstall Grub. Boot Windows. Uninstall Grub and much more.