[Stephen47]

here is what fdisk said
Disk /dev/sda: 58.5 GB
Units=cylinders of 16065 * 512=8225280 bytes

Device Boot Start End Blocks ID System
/dev/sda1 1 5 40131 de Dell Utility
/dev/sda2 6 6689 53689230 7 HPFS/NTFS
/dev/sda3 6690 7112 3397747 db CP/M /CTOS/ ...

[Bartender]

OK, Stephen -
Don't lose track of that fdisk -l. That says a lot, I just don't know what it's saying

There are a couple of weird things that don't necessarily mean you can't install Linux, they just mean we gotta figure out what exactly is going on before proceeding further.

I've been hanging around Linux forums for over a year now, and have never seen

/dev/sda1 1 5 40131 de Dell Utility

before, nor have I seen

/dev/sda3 6690 7112 3397747 db CP/M /CTOS/ ...

Lots and lots of people dual-boot Dells so I think the thing to do is widen your net...if nobody here can help you I'd search over at the main Ubuntu Forums. If doing a search brings up nothing, start a thread explaining what the PC is, what you're trying to do (dual boot, correct?), paste in your fdisk -l, and ask for some help from fellow Dell users.

I can give you a little bit of clarification on your fdisk -l, but not much. Those numbers, such as "6689" in the second line, are physical blocks on your HDD. In other words, block "1" is an real true place, not some virtual description. It's the first block of data on your HDD.

So, the front of your HDD is filled up with "de Dell Utility", whatever the heck that is. The second partition on your HDD, sda2, is the Windows install, spanning blocks 6689 to 53689230. Look at sda3. According to fdisk -l, that's the third partition on your HDD. But its position is inside sda2, your second partition. I don't know why there are 3 groups of blocks within the description instead of 2, and I don't know what "db CP/M/CTOS ..." means. But some people do, and you just gotta find 'em. At least you have something to show them, and that's better than just posting with "I don't know what's wrong" if you know what I mean.

I'm going to toss out a guess here. It's just a guess.

There's something called the master boot record (MBR), a little chunk of data at the very beginning of the HDD. The Windows OS writes the MBR. In a nutshell, the MBR tells the PC what to do next to boot up Windows. If the MBR gets corrupted, Windows won't start. Fortunately, fixing the MBR isn't difficult if you have a genuine Windows CD.

When you dual-boot, GRUB (a part of the Ubuntu OS) finds the MBR and modifies it so that (1) Windows still works and (2) you will see the screen asking which OS to start when you turn on the PC. GRUB is expecting to find the MBR at (or near) block 1. If it's there, it's hidden inside "de Dell utility" so things go sideways from there.

That's my guess. Could be all wrong. One thing I know is you should be able to find some Dell owners who can tell you what to do.

EDIT: I did a search over at the Ubuntu Forums for "fdisk -l dell utility" and got numerous hits. Only been looking for a coupla minutes and saw some disk -l's like yours...

[Stephen47]

thanks for the reply I have posted the same question in the Ubuntu forum but I didn't include the fdisk-l info. I'll do that now

[Bartender]

One of the good things about the Ubuntu Forums is there are so many people there. That's also one of the bad things. At a busy time of day your post may get pushed off the first page in minutes.

I'm crossing my fingers for you

Where did you post? Absolute Beginner, Install, Hardware and Laptop?

[Stephen47]

absolut beginners and by now it is probably on page 6

[Bartender]

Yeah, seven replies so far and most of them thread hijackers. Frustrating how random it can be. You don't have as many eyeballs here at TSG, but not so hectic either
EDIT: If your post sinks into oblivion by tomorrow, I'd try a new thread with a very specific title. Something like "Dell XX fdisk -l questions", include your fdisk -l in the first post, describe short and sweet what you're doing (dual boot, etc.). Try posting late in the evening your time or early morning. Sometimes you'll catch good replies because of stateside Ubuntu geeks suffering from insomnia.

[Bartender]

You've got a working Ubuntu LiveCD, right? Do you have a thumb drive?

I've got an idea I'd like to run by you. Won't solve the problem all by itself, but it'd be educational for you and me and might get someone's attention.

Can you please plug in the thumb drive, put the LiveCD in the tray, and restart the PC. Click on "Start or Install Ubuntu" when you get the splash screen. When you get to the desktop, go to System>Administration>Gnome Partition Editor. Click on it. You'll get a map of your partitions.

With the partition map on the screen, please go to Applications>Accessories>Take Screenshot. When the "Save Screenshot" window comes up, save the screenshot to desktop. Minimize Gnome Partition Editor, double left click on the screenshot icon that's setting on your desktop. Go to File>Save As, name it whatever you want but don't forget to type ".png" (that's "dot pee en gee") at the end or you'll get an error message. In "Save in folder", click on the up/down arrow and scroll to your thumb drive. Mine was right there in the list, between FIle System and Floppy Drive. Hopefully yours will too. Set the thumb drive as the destination and Save.

Whoo hoo. You now have a picture of your partitions, and the descriptions just below the partition map. Can you please paste that .png directly into a post or if that doesn't work attach it. You know how a picture's worth a thousand words. If nobody here can help you, a new thread with your picture at the Ubuntu Forums is more likely to get a response.

I'm tempted to just recommend that you try to build a new partition with the Gnome Partitioning Tool, but want to see the map first. It's easy to be cavalier with someone else's hard drive!

EDIT: You know about properly removing a thumb drive, don't you? Find the drive in "Computer", click on it, and "Eject". You'll see a window pop up real quick saying something about "Writing data". When that's done you can remove the thumb drive.

[Stephen47]

I don't have a thumb drive but I do ave a USB external hard drive. Can I save the .png file to that?

[Bartender]

Can't see why not. I'm just looking for something you can use to save that partition map and then get that map over to a different PC or your Windows partition - whatever it is that's capable of posting to this forum.

[Stephen47]

I'll give it a shot

[Bartender]

Take a look at the tail end of this thread
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=313061
I also PM'ed him, with a link to this thread. Maybe he'll offer some useful info

[Stephen47]

Although the USB hard drive showed up when I tried to save the screenshot but I got an acces denied message so although it isn't a picture and isn't close to 1000 words here is what it showed:

Partition File System Size Used Unused Flags
/dev/sda1 fat16 39.19 MB 7.49 MB 31.71MB
/dev/sda2 ntfs 51.20 GB 9.32 GB 41.88 GB boot
/dev/sad3 fat32 3.24 GB 2.80 GB 453.52 MB
unallocated unallocated 7.84MB .... ...

It never comes out spaced right after I post it so it will take a bit of scrutiny to see it but it is all there.
btwI have downloaded and burned G Parted 0.3.2 and am ready to go

[Stephen47]

I couldn't save the screen shot to my UBS drive but here is what it said. The spacing will probably be messed up. I tried to line the columns up but when I post it it takes ot the spaces. Also I have downloaded and burned G Parted and am ready to go with it.

Partition File System Size Used Unused Flags
/dev/sda1 fat 16 39.19 MB 7.49 MB 31.71 MB
/dev/sda2 ntfs 51.20 GB 9.32 GB 41.88 GB boot
/dev/sda3 fat32 3.24 GB 2.80GB 453.52 MB
unallocated unallocated 7.84 MB .... ....

[Stephen47]

I think the Dell utility has something to do with how Dell restores the OS if it goes south. perhaps I should just remove it since I wouldn't use Dell's restore anyway. But if the MBR is in there then i would be in a fine mess wouldn't I? Of course I could make an image and then just see what happens if I remove it. All three prtitions shown are primar partitions. What does this mean, in the grand scheme of things?

[Bartender]

I PM'ed victorbrca from the Ubuntu Forum thread and asked him for details. He wrote

"I used the live CD to partition and install. Had not trouble other than figure out how to organize my partitions.
Once installed, Ubuntu restarted and the OS option screen was presented. Windows was working fine.."

Not very detailed, but it doesn't sound like things went horribly wrong either. I was really hoping for someone who has a Dell and has gone thru this before to help out here.
If you can make an image of the existing Windows drive, that'd be great. Or at least save valuable data.
Can you scrounge up a spare hard drive and install the entire Ubuntu install (GRUB, /, swap) to it? That way we wouldn't be messing with your Windows data. I haven't tried it but have heard people say numerous times that if you keep tapping on F8 when the PC is booting you'll get an option of which drive to start from. Or you could go into BIOS and choose which drive to boot from but to me that would be annoying.

Too bad you couldn't transfer a picture of the partition map. Did that at least help your understanding some to see how the partitions are laid out?

Windows has to be in a primary partition in order to boot. You can have 4 primary partitions on a drive. Linux does not have to be on a primary partition to boot.

I notice in the info you typed out that sda2 is marked as boot. I'm sure the answer is simple, and that's why I was hoping we'd get some help from Dell owners, but I thought the MBR had to be at the very front of the HDD. We're seeing indications that it does not have to be at the front.

I don't know what to say. If you have a way to image the entire drive so that the worst result would be just a little more time spent reinstalling you data, then maybe the thing to do is defrag the Windows install several times, create a new primary partition from some empty space, and see what happens. At the last page of the Ubuntu installer, just before it's ready to commit, you'll see a tiny box in the middle of the page that says where GRUB is going to go. Make a note of that, OK? For the typical install, GRUB will go to "hd0". I don't know if GRUB is capable of looking for the MBR or just assumes that it's there. You understand what I'm saying, right? If GRUB is capable of recognizing the MBR, and your MBR is in sda2 along with the rest of the Windows installation, it might install to "hd0,1" which is the second partition on the first disc. I just don't know.

Please keep us informed, OK?

EDIT: Just had another thought. You say you wouldn't use the Dell recovery partitions. This is just another suggestion, I'm not saying you should act on it. If we knew that the other two partitions are just fluff, and you could make an exact copy of the real Windows installation, one option might be making that copy, wiping the entire drive, using GParted to create an NTFS partition and an ext3 partition, then copy Windows back to the NTFS partition. Then install Ubuntu to the ext3 partition. I don't know if that would even work but thought I'd mention it :P

EDIT: Hey, just came across this thread
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=275728
Interesting twist on the 2 hard drives scenario - Ubuntu on the master, and Windows on the slave. Makes sense to me. This is in case you decide to run a 2nd HDD...