[lotuseclat79]

Essentially, as root, edit the file /etc/dbus-1/system.d/NetworkManager.conf, and change all instances of:
<allow send_interface="org.freedesktop.NetworkManager"/>
to:
<deny send_interface="org.freedesktop.NetworkManager"/>

Then save changes and reboot making sure that Work Offline was not checked when you last exited Firefox 3.

Reference: Firefox in Hardy defaults "Offline"(post#6).

-- Tom

[RootbeaR]

Originally Posted by lotuseclat79

Essentially, as root, edit the file /etc/dbus-1/system.d/NetworkManager.conf, and change all instances of:
<allow send_interface="org.freedesktop.NetworkManager"/>
to:
<deny send_interface="org.freedesktop.NetworkManager"/>

Then save changes and reboot making sure that Work Offline was not checked when you last exited Firefox 3.

Reference: Firefox in Hardy defaults "Offline"(post#6).

-- Tom

Must be specific to Ubuntu, no troubles on PCLOS.

[lotuseclat79]

Hi RootbeaR,

Yes, it's a problem with Ubuntu 8.04 LTS, Hardy Heron.

-- Tom

[rmrfstar]

Why would this have to do w/ Ubuntu lotusclat79/rootbear?

Don't edit NetworkManager.conf.

1) Open Firefox
2) In address bar, type about:config
3) Search/Filter for "offline"
4) Toggle off (double-click) browser.cache.offline.enable

[tomdkat]

This thread is a little bit misleading. This isn't a Firefox issue, it's a networking issue. If the network manager reports no network connection, ANY application that supports an "offline" mode will be affected. In fact, in the very post where the NetworkManager config file change is posted pidgin is mentioned along with Firefox. If you always have a working network connection, this shouldn't be an issue.

Peace...

[lotuseclat79]

Hi tomdkat,

Yes, for sure it is a networking issue, but one that has a side effect on Firefox defaulting to coming up offline - and, as you say, perhaps other applications that support an offline mode.

Trust me, I work from a 56k dialup ISP connection, and it very much affects Firefox on my setup using a Live CD.

Regardless of your point that this shouldn't be an issue, it is an issue - and, a very annoying one at that.

-- Tom

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by lotuseclat79

Yes, for sure it is a networking issue, but one that has a side effect on Firefox defaulting to coming up offline - and, as you say, perhaps other applications that support an offline mode.

Don't take my word for it, read the thread you posted the link to.

Trust me, I work from a 56k dialup ISP connection, and it very much affects Firefox on my setup using a Live CD.

The question I have is what behavior do you expect when you start Firefox, or any other network aware application that has an "offline" mode, without a "live" Internet connection?

[quote]Regardless of your point that this shouldn't be an issue, it is an issue - and, a very annoying one at that.
/QUOTE]My point, as stated above, is this shouldn't be an issue if you have a working Internet connection. If you are in the habit of running network aware apps without having a network connection, that's fine but that's an issue with your computer usage and nothing else. The implication of your thread is there is some kind of "problem" related to Firefox on Ubuntu when I don't think that's the case at all.

Peace...

[lotuseclat79]

[QUOTE=tomdkat;5978011]Don't take my word for it, read the thread you posted the link to.

The question I have is what behavior do you expect when you start Firefox, or any other network aware application that has an "offline" mode, without a "live" Internet connection?

Regardless of your point that this shouldn't be an issue, it is an issue - and, a very annoying one at that.
/QUOTE]My point, as stated above, is this shouldn't be an issue if you have a working Internet connection. If you are in the habit of running network aware apps without having a network connection, that's fine but that's an issue with your computer usage and nothing else. The implication of your thread is there is some kind of "problem" related to Firefox on Ubuntu when I don't think that's the case at all.

Peace...

Hi tomdkat,

It is not what I expect - i.e. Firefox developers decided to add the offline mode as default, which even if you changed it to disabled, always came up be default offline - which was a major user interface change of expectations which I did not want.

Firefox developers messed with my computer usage and in the process made it very annoying!

Many, many Firefox users were annoyed - which is why the linked to message at the Ubuntu forums was created to provide a work around to automate a cleaner launch of Firefox without the user having to always have to change the offline to not offline.

It was a major pain the the a** to the way many users work - not offline, but online when they launch Firefox.

-- Tom

P.S. I always launch Firefox after I am connected to my ISP, and even if I launch it before I connect, I don't care if I get a connection issue message from FF, because I know why and am in control of when I connect.

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by lotuseclat79

It is not what I expect - i.e. Firefox developers decided to add the offline mode as default, which even if you changed it to disabled, always came up be default offline - which was a major user interface change of expectations which I did not want.

I'm just not seeing this behavior at all. I did some testing this morning. I'm using Firefox 3 on Ubuntu 8.04, just like you. I'm running the 64-bit version and I don't know if you are or not.

If a network connection is present when I start Firefox, it doesn't start in offline mode.

If there isn't a network connection present when I start Firefox, it starts in offline mode. If Firefox is in offline mode, in the File menu there is a place where I can check Work Offline to toggle the offline mode on or off.

If there wasn't a network connection present when I started Firefox, it started in offline mode. If the network connection became available, Firefox automatically went out of offline mode.

I'm just not seeing the "offline mode as default" behavior you're talking about. What I am seeing is Firefox "responding" to the presence of a network connection when it starts.

Firefox developers messed with my computer usage and in the process made it very annoying!

That's exactly why I'm making an "issue" out of this. The Firefox developers didn't change or do anything. This is NOT a change in Firefox behavior!

Many, many Firefox users were annoyed - which is why the linked to message at the Ubuntu forums was created to provide a work around to automate a cleaner launch of Firefox without the user having to always have to change the offline to not offline.

Yep and my point is in that thread, they identify the issue being a networking issue, not a Firefox issue.

It was a major pain the the a** to the way many users work - not offline, but online when they launch Firefox.

I can understand it but if people are having issues connecting to the Internet when they have an active network connection, something else is wrong. As was pointed out in the thread you linked to, the workaround was to alter the NetworkManager's behavior. By doing this, you're impacting EVERY network aware application on your system. This has NOTHING to do with Firefox.

P.S. I always launch Firefox after I am connected to my ISP, and even if I launch it before I connect, I don't care if I get a connection issue message from FF, because I know why and am in control of when I connect.

If this is the case, then you need to look into an issue with Ubuntu's dial-up support. If you dial into your ISP and establish a network connection before you start Firefox, you've got fundamental networking issues to address. How do you confirm you're fully connected before you start your browser? Do you display your assigned IP address or something?

Peace...

[lotuseclat79]

Hi tomdkat,

I am running the 32-bit Live CD of Ubuntu 8.04 LTS (Hardy Heron). Note: the Live CD is as it was initially distributed with FF 3.0b5, and I overwrite the files with FF 3.0 with my setup scripts to get the updates I have applied via Synaptic Pkg Mgr. FF 3.0b5 did not launch with an offline mode as I recall, but FF 3.0 does.

I can see why you are still posting in this thread - i.e. the difference in our connection service makes our separate versions of both system and FF behave differently.

Yes, my assigned IP address is fully displayed when the dialup connection is ready. And, if I start up FF before I have launched wvdial to dialup via the modem I have, it just displays a Connection Not Found message on my Forecastbar Enhanced weather add-on for FF at the rhs of my top menu bar were it displays - no problem as I know what's going on, and the add-on redetects the connection after a small while and loads the weather data. I have roughly 75 or so RSS feeds that kick off when I launch FF, and that takes a couple of minutes to reach a stable state such that the normal fetch time for a web page occurs.

The issue is not with Ubuntu's dialup support and is not with any fundamental networking issues - the problem is likely that the FF developers do not consider dialup when they implement new features like the offline mode for startup. Since I have a fully consistent workaround to the problem, I really don't care about how the developers mucked it up - they may provide a better model in the future - who knows?

-- Tom

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by lotuseclat79

I can see why you are still posting in this thread - i.e. the difference in our connection service makes our separate versions of both system and FF behave differently.

I disagree. I believe there's a networking issue in your dial-up configuration that's causing your issue.

Yes, my assigned IP address is fully displayed when the dialup connection is ready.

That's good to know. The only remaining question is why does the Network Manager not recognize the dial-up network connection as being active at the time Firefox is started.

The issue is not with Ubuntu's dialup support and is not with any fundamental networking issues - the problem is likely that the FF developers do not consider dialup when they implement new features like the offline mode for startup.

I wholeheartedly disagree. Why? Because I was able to get Firefox 3 to start in offline mode on my system. How? By disconnecting the network cable. The Network Manager reported my network connection as not being established and when I started Firefox, it started in offline mode. I exit Firefox and plugged my network cable back in to my router and the network connection was restored. I then started Firefox and it started in normal mode (i.e. not in offline mode). If you're on a dial-up connection and the Network Manager doesn't think a network connection has been established when you ARE connected to the Internet, that is a problem and one you should investigate further.

Firefox won't be "aware" of your Internet connection being a dial-up connection or a broadband connection, other than the speed with which files can be downloaded. More importantly, Firefox won't care. As long as there is an Internet connection, it can function.

This is NOT a Firefox issue. It's a dial-up networking issue, in your case.

EDIT: I found these bug reports against Network Manager:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/ha...er/+bug/147119
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+s...er/+bug/191889

Looks like uninstalling Network Manager is one option, disabling the reporting of the network state in Network Manager is another option, or waiting for an update to Network Manager to be released is a third option. In the comments for bug #191889, someone posted a link to a Firefox extension to disable offline mode completely, if you're interested in that.

The Network Manager issue is reported to affect Pidgin, Firefox 3, and Evolution.

Peace...

[lotuseclat79]

Originally Posted by tomdkat

I disagree. I believe there's a networking issue in your dial-up configuration that's causing your issue.

That's good to know. The only remaining question is why does the Network Manager not recognize the dial-up network connection as being active at the time Firefox is started.

I wholeheartedly disagree. Why? Because I was able to get Firefox 3 to start in offline mode on my system. How? By disconnecting the network cable. The Network Manager reported my network connection as not being established and when I started Firefox, it started in offline mode. I exit Firefox and plugged my network cable back in to my router and the network connection was restored. I then started Firefox and it started in normal mode (i.e. not in offline mode). If you're on a dial-up connection and the Network Manager doesn't think a network connection has been established when you ARE connected to the Internet, that is a problem and one you should investigate further.

Firefox won't be "aware" of your Internet connection being a dial-up connection or a broadband connection, other than the speed with which files can be downloaded. More importantly, Firefox won't care. As long as there is an Internet connection, it can function.

This is NOT a Firefox issue. It's a dial-up networking issue, in your case.

EDIT: I found these bug reports against Network Manager:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/ha...er/+bug/147119
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+s...er/+bug/191889

Looks like uninstalling Network Manager is one option, disabling the reporting of the network state in Network Manager is another option, or waiting for an update to Network Manager to be released is a third option. In the comments for bug #191889, someone posted a link to a Firefox extension to disable offline mode completely, if you're interested in that.

The Network Manager issue is reported to affect Pidgin, Firefox 3, and Evolution.

Peace...

Hi tomdkat,

There is no issue in my dialup configuration. It is the same as it has always been and it is stable.

With regard to FF 3.0, every time I disabled offline mode and exited FF, the next time I launched FF, it launched in offline mode when I was connected to my ISP. No user control.

Starting FF 3.0 in offline mode is a no-brainer, i.e. it is the default. Disconnecting the network cable is cheating wrt this particular problem. Note: I use a Live CD, whereas you probably have an installed system - world's apart. For example, one of the unique changes that the Ubuntu developers made to 8.04 (off topic from FF) is to not display the disk icons on the Desktop. Even with Ubuntu Tweak, in the Live CD environment, I am unable to display the disk icons when I issue the mount command. The CD disc icon does display when a CD is automatically detected, however. I suspect that there is more software in Gnome that is missing from the Live CD version that would otherwise get installed and disk icons would then display. Neither is there a fine enough grain of control in the Gnome-editor (desktop) with regard to displaying the disk icon feature to engage displaying the actual icon when you mount a disk.

I understand where you are coming from and you may be correct, however, I have a workaround solution that avoids the problem.

The problem is the side-effect of the network changes in the OS on the 3rd party browser, i.e. FF 3.0 - a problem you do not have, but which is quite apparent for myself and other users.

-- Tom

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by lotuseclat79

There is no issue in my dialup configuration. It is the same as it has always been and it is stable.

First, I never questioned your dial-up configuration but I said there was an issue with Ubuntu's dial-up support, meaning something broke related to dial-up networking with Ubuntu 8.04. Apparently, a change to Network Manager is the culprit.

With regard to FF 3.0, every time I disabled offline mode and exited FF, the next time I launched FF, it launched in offline mode when I was connected to my ISP. No user control.

Yep, this is because of the Network Manager issue. Uninstall Network Manager (one option) and the issue goes away.

Starting FF 3.0 in offline mode is a no-brainer, i.e. it is the default.

It is NOT the default. Even you have proven it's not the default. How? Because if you use the option of disabling Network Manager's reporting of network connection state (which I guess is the moral equivalent of uninstalling Network Manager completely), Firefox responds differently. If Network Manager is fully operational, it won't correctly report the network connection status and Firefox starts in offline mode. If Network Manager isn't involved, Firefox "assumes" an active network connection. Firefox is simply responding to the underlying system reporting its networking state. Also, we can't forget the other apps being affected by Network Manager's behavior as well.

A "default" setting is a setting set in the standard distribution of the browser. Some distro maintainers might make some changes (like Ubuntu disabling Firefox's ability to check for updates on its own) but given Network Manager's involvement, I don't think this was changed by the Ubuntu maintainers.

Disconnecting the network cable is cheating wrt this particular problem. Note: I use a Live CD, whereas you probably have an installed system - world's apart. For example, one of the unique changes that the Ubuntu developers made to 8.04 (off topic from FF) is to not display the disk icons on the Desktop. Even with Ubuntu Tweak, in the Live CD environment, I am unable to display the disk icons when I issue the mount command. The CD disc icon does display when a CD is automatically detected, however. I suspect that there is more software in Gnome that is missing from the Live CD version that would otherwise get installed and disk icons would then display. Neither is there a fine enough grain of control in the Gnome-editor (desktop) with regard to displaying the disk icon feature to engage displaying the actual icon when you mount a disk.

Granted, your running in a liveCD environment is a different configuration than my running from an installed environment. However, I don't believe your running in a liveCD environment is relevant since my disconnecting my network cable accomplished the same behavior in Network Manager. So, when I disconnected my network cable, Network Manager reported to Firefox there was no network connection and Firefox started in offline mode. Cool. That is correct behavior. When you connect to the Internet via dial-up, Network Manager reported to Firefox there was no network connection and Firefox started in offline mode. I don't think your running in a liveCD environment matters. Furthermore, in one of those bug reports SEVERAL people complained about the same issue you had with Firefox starting in offline mode and NOT ONE indicated they were running in a liveCD environment.

The problem is the side-effect of the network changes in the OS on the 3rd party browser, i.e. FF 3.0 - a problem you do not have, but which is quite apparent for myself and other users.

This is definitely true and a completely different statement than the one you made in the first post of this thread.

[lotuseclat79]

Hi tomdkat,

See here, here, and here.

Long story short: there is a Firefox bug posted, and a workaround.

The difference in opinions that we have is not whether FF starts at all in offline mode when the network is disconnected (correct), but that because of the bug, it defaults to offline mode when the network connection exists (for dialup: i.e. ppp0 rather than eth0). Network manager clearly interferes with dialup which you should be able to run alongside a different network connection anyway without the side effects that seem to be plaguing FF.

-- Tom

[tomdkat]

Originally Posted by lotuseclat79

Hi tomdkat,

See here, here, and here.

Long story short: there is a Firefox bug posted, and a workaround.

The difference in opinions that we have is not whether FF starts at all in offline mode when the network is disconnected (correct), but that because of the bug, it defaults to offline mode when the network connection exists (for dialup: i.e. ppp0 rather than eth0). Network manager clearly interferes with dialup which you should be able to run alongside a different network connection anyway without the side effects that seem to be plaguing FF.

Thanks for those links and they confirm what I've been posting above all along. It's a Network Manager issue and it looks like Network Manager 0.7 might resolve the issue for those using dial-up or ppp oriented connections. I've got no problem with your second paragraph above and we're both on that same page. It's the "this is a Firefox bug" that I had issue with, since it clearly isn't.

Personally, I don't agree with the proposed change of having Firefox check for a specific version of Network Manager since that "binds" the browser to lower level functionality that should be a "black box". However, given people's resistance to simply unchecking "work offline" I guess you've got to do something to quiet the masses. More often than not, those opposed to unchecking "work offline" admit it's an annoyance (as you have admitted) and I don't think it's appropriate to change the functionality of the browser due to an "annoyance" caused by an underlying part of the operating environment (GNOME in this case vs the kernel). I'm not a Firefox developer so it's not my call on which changes are appropriate and which ones aren't.

Peace...