[help4me]

Originally Posted by valis

the trick is recognizing who is saying what, and what they truly mean by what they are saying. Especially in a forum such as this......no interpersonal communication, only the written word.

the sum of the posts

[valis]

touche, bonnie pooh.

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by valis

great movie....I actually hadn't seen it until about 2 years ago; my wife found out I'd not seen it, and as I am a child of the 80's, pretty much said I needed to watch this flick.....good flick....

...good morning my friend...

...That's my favorite movie. Watched it at least 20 times... ...whenever I'd get a little 'down,' I'd watch it and it would perk me right up. Gekko was... and is still one of my heroes...

...If anyone showed that he could depend on "free will" he certainly did... ...might not be the most ethical person in the world... but then... who's perfect...

[lighthouse]

Destiny or free will? - hmmm, an interesting question. I had someone do a 'consultation' with me in about 1985 which has had a devastating effect on my life almost ever since. What I was told - and I won't elaborate here - meant that I was effectively put in emotional chains for years - which completely compromised any chance of a relationship. Both me and the 'prediction' have been exploited ever since and if that person had any idea just how much pain that meeting has caused me they'd probably retire from the psychic business. Also, sometimes a 'prediction' isn't really a psychic experience at all - rather someone manipulating everything that happens ever since (and I don't mean in the popularly conceived notion of burning various herbs and reciting invocations) just using the age old process of verbal communication with people you might know and thus an elaborate illusion is achieved. I guess this is the difference between the Occult and what I would call proper paganism in that the former deals mainly with stuff made by people (god forms, symbolism etc) while the latter is concerned with the things that made all of us - and everything else. Remember how we were told that if we saw the life span of the earth as a 24 hour clock human beings have only been on it for about 4 minutes? Occultists seem to be preoccupied with those 4 minutes while Pagans attempt to observe all of it. Proper Pagans observe the things that we can't control (the weather, tides, seasonal changes, gestation, the natural processes involved with the provision of food etc) and use that information to help those they are involved with - thus an ethical pagan is completely incorruptable - whereas an Occultist - culminating in the likes of Aleistair Crowley - has to work with man made stuff that is very easily corrupted.

As for all this stuff about spellcraft and the like - it's probably fair to say that much of it is psychoschematic - working rather like a paranormal Placebo.

This isn't an online advocation of Paganism, I must add. Just an objective commentary on the subject.

[valis]

Originally Posted by lighthouse

Destiny or free will? - hmmm, an interesting question. I had someone do a 'consultation' with me in about 1985 which has had a devastating effect on my life almost ever since. What I was told - and I won't elaborate here - meant that I was effectively put in emotional chains for years - which completely compromised any chance of a relationship. Both me and the 'prediction' have been exploited ever since and if that person had any idea just how much pain that meeting has caused me they'd probably retire from the psychic business. Also, sometimes a 'prediction' isn't really a psychic experience at all - rather someone manipulating everything that happens ever since (and I don't mean in the popularly conceived notion of burning various herbs and reciting invocations) just using the age old process of verbal communication with people you might know and thus an elaborate illusion is achieved. I guess this is the difference between the Occult and what I would call proper paganism in that the former deals mainly with stuff made by people (god forms, symbolism etc) while the latter is concerned with the things that made all of us - and everything else. Remember how we were told that if we saw the life span of the earth as a 24 hour clock human beings have only been on it for about 4 minutes? Occultists seem to be preoccupied with those 4 minutes while Pagans attempt to observe all of it. Proper Pagans observe the things that we can't control (the weather, tides, seasonal changes, gestation, the natural processes involved with the provision of food etc) and use that information to help those they are involved with - thus an ethical pagan is completely incorruptable - whereas an Occultist - culminating in the likes of Aleistair Crowley - has to work with man made stuff that is very easily corrupted.

As for all this stuff about spellcraft and the like - it's probably fair to say that much of it is psychoschematic - working rather like a paranormal Placebo.

This isn't an online advocation of Paganism, I must add. Just an objective commentary on the subject.

interesting question? Very interesting response. Remember that someone who passes any type of judgement upon you carries only the weight that you give them; if this person back in 85 has had negative effects upon you, stop and examine how much of what they said is true. I've been to my share of head-shrinkers, and remain unconvinced that they can fix what is ailing me, and I don't even want to try some hoogie-boogie witchcraft esp psychic stuff, as I am afraid I'd blow them clean out of the water accidentally.

Just remember that you are as involved in the manipulations as they are. This I believe with every fiber of my being. Other people may believe what it pleases them to believe to ge tthrough the day, but I will do nothing without knowing the reason why I do it. To paraphrase Douglas Adams.

[lighthouse]

This was someone who described themselves to the world as a 'clairvoyant'. The thing that discredits what was said is that it was over 20 years ago and the content of the prediction hasn't happened.

[valis]

Originally Posted by lighthouse

This was someone who described themselves to the world as a 'clairvoyant'. The thing that discredits what was said is that it was over 20 years ago and the content of the prediction hasn't happened.

well, that's something. I remember being in some 'witch's house (some lady who practiced paganistic stuff, but was purely, to the best of my knowledge, just a parlour room witch). She did her little thing with the tarot cards, told me I was evil incarnate, and told me to get out of her house then and there and never come back.

Still don't know if she was right or not. I think not; I do think that I was smarter than she was and I seem to recall laying some goofy trip on her about pantheistic religions in general, but that was a looooooooong time ago.