[valis]

Originally Posted by stranglehold

Look at the replay. Driver error, period. Sure, he was at least two laps past the life of the tires, but again, look at the replay. Look at his steering input.

Dunno about that. Those tires were done, cooked, fried, what have you. The steering input was due to the back end stepping out, and instinct over-correcting into the gravel trap.

But those tires were absolute toast. That, actually, came into my mind when Kimi went for the second flying lap after Massa pitted, as the right front was just about ready to de-lam.

[Remus_Lupin]

Alonso comments on the ongoing investigation in an interview according to another site:


Alonso said again: "It would be a total shame if Kimi is stripped from the title".

Then they talked with a FIA representative and he said:

"I'm in shock, I just can't believe that those drivers could be punished"

Then he said:

"I would be totally devasted if FIA (us) punish those drivers, is just amazing".

[valis]

and before you say anything, Jim, I would be just as disgusted if the roles were reversed, and Hamilton were stripped of his title in the same fashion.

Alonso? He should've been benched long ago.

[RSM123]

Kimi Raikkonen's world title has been thrown into doubt following an inquiry into the cars of BMW Sauber and Williams at the Brazilian Grand Prix.
Race stewards are investigating alleged irregularites with the cars' fuel.

Williams's Nico Rosberg was fourth in the race, followed by BMW Sauber's Robert Kubica and Nick Heidfeld.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/7055644.stm

Edit - seen this has already been reported .... be interesting though.

[pyritechips]

from itv (thanks again for the link, pyrite, you crusty canuck you)

You're welcome, and concerning a previous post I was not questioning your credibility or honour, just your logic!

I don't have to look at the replay; I remember the event clearly. I never said he didn't make the error; I was meaning that it did not cause him to lose the championship. He was still in the running for the needed P5. It was the box full of neutrals on lap 7 that cost him the title.

[pyritechips]

Originally Posted by valis

and before you say anything, Jim, I would be just as disgusted if the roles were reversed, and Hamilton were stripped of his title in the same fashion.

Alonso? He should've been benched long ago.

Absolutely! The same way Ferrari inherited the constructor's title. Ferrari didn't win it; McLaren lost it, hence the huge asterix. The same huge asterix that will be besides Hamilton's name if he "wins" the driver's title due to this latest debacle.

I declare this season tainted and cursed but I will not fly off the handle and stop watching the sport. The more complex the system the more chances of flaws appearing and F1 is the most complex motorsport on the planet.

[pyritechips]

Here is more information on the fuel investigation:

Stewards' probe puts title in doubt

To quote:

Article 6.5.5 of the Formula 1 technical regulations stipulates that “no fuel on board the car may be more than 10 degrees centigrade below ambient temperature”.

And:

The stewards are currently deliberating on the appropriate punishment for this irregularity.

Given the huge ramifications of disqualifying the drivers, it is thought likely that a different penalty will be applied, perhaps citing the precedent of the 1995 Brazilian GP, when constructors’ but not drivers’ points were deducted.

Fair enough. The same reason driver's points weren't docked from Alonso and Hamilton for the spy scandal. I predict that Hamilton will keep his title, which is only fair. He whould not be punished for the wrongdoings of others and over which he had no control or knowledge.

[valis]

Originally Posted by pyritechips

I declare this season tainted and cursed but I will not fly off the handle and stop watching the sport. The more complex the system the more chances of flaws appearing and F1 is the most complex motorsport on the planet.

I fly off the handle (yet, but as I'm Irish, it's inevitable. Whether or not F1 is concerned is immaterial. ), but I will be so completely disgusted with the sport that I may take a hiatus until Bernie is planted or gone.....which sucks, because I am/was REALLY looking forward to the lack of traction control next year. Look of kids going to be swapping ends going around certain corners.

But this is ludicrous. Beyond ludicrous. Kimi won, end of discussion. He won due to some bad mechanical luck by McLaren that may or may not have been caused by a rookie error by Hamilton; I stand by my statement that if Hamilton had not tried to pass Alonso on 3, he would've won the championship handily. I don't know doodly divided by squat about the gearbox electronics of a modern (or any other era) F1 car, but I do know that this season they have introduced a seamless shifter in the transmission mechanism, and that has caused some headaches during the season for a few teams, Ferrari being one of them.

Regardless, crap likes this ticks me off. Kimi won. Period. End of discussion. Strip the violators of their points, keep their grid places, and that's that. Hamilton lost. End of discussion. He went wide on the start, then suffered mechanical failure for a bit. Luck of the draw. Kimi didn't finish a few races, and had a HUGE off that I was quite frankly surprised to see him race that weekend. It's a long season, with many variables (especially with the modern cars), but, just as in any sport, the ref is there not to be part of the game.

grrr.

[pyritechips]

but as I'm Irish,

Ahhhhhhhhhhh! That explains it!

I'm not disagreeing with you on this one (see my last post).

[valis]

Originally Posted by pyritechips

Ahhhhhhhhhhh! That explains it!

answer a few of those nagging questions about me?

[valis]

okay, brouhaha over. Thank god.

from yet again, ITV. Owe you big for this one, Jim.

Kimi Raikkonen has been confirmed as the 2007 Formula 1 world champion after Brazilian Grand Prix race stewards upheld the original result. After lengthy deliberations at Interlagos on Sunday evening, the stewards decided not to penalise Williams and BMW Sauber for minor technical irregularities.

[pyritechips]

Originally Posted by valis

answer a few of those nagging questions about me?

Yep! I have a touch of the blarney in me too!

This is a fair and levelheaded recap of the race and the year from ITV's James Allen:



JAMES ALLEN'S VERDICT

[RSM123]

Kimi Raikkonen has been confirmed as world champion following an inquiry into the cars of BMW Sauber and Williams at the Brazilian Grand Prix.
Race stewards investigated alleged irregularites with the cars' fuel, but decided to impose no penalty.

Williams's Nico Rosberg was fourth, ahead of the two BMW Sauber cars.

Had they been disqualified, McLaren driver Lewis Hamilton would have been promoted to fourth, giving him enough points to become world champion.


Report: Radio 5live's David Croft

The problem that could have seen Hamilton installed as the first man to win the title in his first season was a fuel-temperature irregularity on the Williams and BMW Sauber cars.

A statement from the sport's governing body, the FIA, said the fuel in the cars was "more than [the permitted] 10 degrees below the ambient temperature".

606: DEBATE
Give your reaction to the news here
But the stewards said in a later statement, issued more than six hours after the end of the race, that there was sufficient doubt about the fuel temperatures "as to render it inappropriate to impose a penalty".

Hamilton went into the race leading the title chase, but finished only seventh after a series of problems.

The Englishman, 22, dropped down to eighth on the first lap after running off the road trying to pass team-mate Fernando Alonso.

Then on lap eight he dropped to the tail of the field when his gearbox slipped into neutral, costing him 40 seconds before it started to work again.

Raikkonen led home team-mate Felipe Massa in a Ferrari one-two to clinch the title by one point from Hamilton.

Alonso finished on the same points as Hamilton, but the Spaniard was classified as third on countback.

Excluding the Williams and BMW Sauber cars would have risked turning one of the most exciting championship finales in F1 history into a farce.

But the stewards had the power to disqualify them, even though the advantage conferred would have had no bearing on the title race.

The total advantage for each car over the race distance was almost certainly no more than a second.

The FIA said Heidfeld's fuel was 13C lower than ambient at his first stop and 12C lower at his second.

Kubica's varied by 14C, 13C and 13C at his three stops, while Rosberg's was 13C and 12C out at his two stops.

Filling the car with cooler fuel can give a performance advantage.

Cooler fuel is denser, so either it can mean it takes slightly less time to refuel the car or marginally more can be added in the same time.

And it would give a slight power advantage for about three laps before it returned to ambient temperature out on the track.

There is some form of precedent not to exclude the cars.

In 1995, the Benetton-Renault of Michael Schumacher and the Williams-Renault of David Coulthard were initially disqualified from first and second places in the Brazilian Grand Prix because their fuel did not conform to samples approved by the FIA.

But a week later the FIA reinstated the drivers' points but docked the teams their constructors' points.

In that case, though, no advantage was gained by the irregularity.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/7055644.stm

[pyritechips]

Originally Posted by valis

okay, brouhaha over. Thank god.

from yet again, ITV. Owe you big for this one, Jim.

Don't mention it good buddy. Just bookmark that site. They are the team that broadcasts the races and they have the most knowledgable and experienced reporting team in the business.

Just a note. I have watched the Speed channel F1 broadcasts and just to make a point that ITV provides the video feed on behalf of Formula 1. Speed supplies their own commentary but here in Canada we get the ITV commentary with James Allen and Martin Brundle. Also, the Speed broadcasts are slightly time delayed. Today Speed was showing the driver's interviews after the fact. Yesterday qualifying on Speed concluded ~20 minutes late. I could have posted the quali results when America was seeing the end of Q2.

[Remus_Lupin]

Originally Posted by pyritechips

Absolutely! The same way Ferrari inherited the constructor's title. Ferrari didn't win it; McLaren lost it, hence the huge asterix. The same huge asterix that will be besides Hamilton's name if he "wins" the driver's title due to this latest debacle.

I declare this season tainted and cursed but I will not fly off the handle and stop watching the sport. The more complex the system the more chances of flaws appearing and F1 is the most complex motorsport on the planet.

Ferrari won the constructors title fair and square, like I said before even if McLaren was allowed to keep their points and not disqualified, Ferrari still wins WCC by 1 point. Both the constructors title and the drivers title are well deserved by Ferrari and Kimi respectively.