[Stoner]

Hi John,

The EPA issue is quite relevant here in the US. Quite so in California.
Aftermarket manufacturers of auto performance items are required to have their products certified if that product is intended for use on Federal,State or local highways.
An inspection that catches non certified modifications is grounds for failure of an emissions test, meaning no license plates till corrected.
You might reconsider the EPA certification for the US consumer. I think it's very relevant to the auto enthusiast that is knowledgeable of the emission laws in the US.

That's unfortunate about not having your diagnostic equipment any more.

Yes, that is one of the disadvantages of being retired
hmmmmm........maybe that's a good thing?

Hydrocarbons (ppm) - 40% average
Carbon Monoxide (%) - 40% average
NOx (ppm) - 10% average

I'm in my skeptical mode again.
I've enclosed three Ohio EPA emission tests from 2002 .This year, the testing was changed for OBD2 cars, and now the onboard computer is scanned for trouble codes. These are my vehicles and there are no modifications of any type.


1996 Monte Carlo Z34:

As you can see the limit for HC was 74 ppm and the test was 5.9
A 40% improvement would make that read 2.4

CO is already 0% No way you can improve that.

NOx isn't tested by Ohio

CO2 is 14.3% but there is no fail spec in Ohio.

Note the 'Tampering' on the form. There is an inspection and the hood is raised.

_____________

The 1996 Geo Tracker is similar.
HC 3.4ppm, CO is again 0%, CO2 is 15.24%


I believe (professional opinion) that each vehicle runs as efficient as the onboard computer allows. As the O2 sensors read the exhaust in and out of the cat. converters, there is little room for 40% improvement in any gas test unless there is either a malfunction or inefficiency in the engine and emission systems.

Now, for an older light duty pick up truck that has the older OBD
system. This test is from 2003. There are 193,000 miles on it. There has been no emission repair or mechanical repair of the engine.

HC is 7.6 ppm
CO is .09%
and CO2 is 15.24%

This vehicle has only one O2 sensor, and it's in the exhaust stream before the cat.
This vehicle may be tricked into performing better But not much
But I think a fresh oil change and a tune up would be the greatest factor.

BTW, a fresh oil change always shows a significant improvement in emissions over 'old' oil. My Sun gas analyzer
picked up on that. It has been recommended by many articles, for older autos that are borderline in passing.

John, unless I'm racing(actually,I quit the track a while ago) I look to the EPA certification of modifications . Then I know that the product has passed ridged testing and has a decent chance of performing as advertised.

As far as your own testing, I would put most of your efforts on relatively new autos. New preferably. I've seen 10 year old cars, that pass emission testing, vary considerably from tests that are even only hours apart. Old cars become unreliable for identical results as the worn mechanical and emission equipment often becomes inconsistent in function. As the mileage piles up, eventually some device in the system fails altogether and that dang check engine light comes on

Your product, EPA certified, on a new car would impress me if there was a 40% improvement in emissions.


I'll put the copies of my EPA results in following posts.
I really don't think your gas kit would improve their performance.

[Stoner]

The Monte Carlo:

[Stoner]

The Geo Tracker:

[Stoner]

Ford Ranger:

[Tadgerguy]

Jack,


I have to agree with you regarding newer vehicles.

We have tested numerous 2001, 2002 & 2003 vehicles under our provincial testing program. I find that the CO results are typically less than 0.1 Although we show improvements, the current CO levels are typically non-existent.

We test for NOx here and our typical reductions vary from 5-10% That was also evident in our Environment Canada chassis dyno tests for diesel which showed an average 4.5% reduction in NOx

HC tests on newer vehicles also show reductions in the 30-40% range.

We do not test for CO2 in Canada.

Currently we do not market the product in the US however we will be entering the US market in late 2004. In your opinion if you could only complete one test with a gas product for the EPA which test protocol would you use?

Thanks again.

John

[Stoner]

Hi John,

Currently we do not market the product in the US however we will be entering the US market in late 2004. In your opinion if you could only complete one test with a gas product for the EPA which test protocol would you use?

I can only suggest contacting the EPA for certification information.
As I have never been in the business of manufacturing emission related auto parts, I have had no experience dealing with EPA from the certification end.
You might try to contact one of the US manufacturers and ask for pointers on streamlining your efforts. Edlebrock is a large company that makes a wide range of certified products. You could try inquiring at a company like that to see what the easiest approach is in regards to dealing with the EPA beaurocracy.
What I have read over the last few years, I get the impression that the testing processes have been relaxed lately.


Jack

[felix1point1]

I must say I'm glad I revisited thist thread. Your opinions, links and descusions have been educational to say the least. I don't know a lot about cars but as with everything else "if it sounds to good to be true, it probably is".

Now heres a real question for you. As long as I got the attention of half the motorheads on this site, anyone interested in helping me troubleshoot my '88 (To)yota corolla?

[Stoner]

Hi felix1point1

I used to be in the auto repair business.
Been out of it for a decade, kinda rusty at it now
Go ahead and post your problem.
If the mods think it appropriate somewhere else in the forum,
so be it.

Somebody here should have some ideas that help.


Jack

[fuelsaver]

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Fuel Saver Pro can also help you pass the MOT. Check out the amazing results (ZERO emissions) from a recent MOT (28/06/04). as we have very stringent emission test in the united kingdom & the car is a 2000 model (GMC) Vauxhall Vectra 2.0i
so the device actually works as this test was done at the main dealer you can buy this online if you want & prob if you fit it to the right fuel line on your vehicle at the right place you will notice a great inprovement as i did in millage it increased my millage to 60-70 mile per gallon of petrol i put in & i use shell optimax thats super unleaded to anyone outside of the uk to buy it please visit http://www.fuelsaverpro.co.uk or http://www.fuelsaverpro.com

[turbo3000d]

It is an old disign that turbo3000d has stopped using because it has old technoligy.there is already three generations of new units past the old one tadger is passing off as new tech. and for twice to three time the amount the real unit sells for

[Super-D-38]

... Nah, just skip the hype. To improve (?) the mileage in my 78 Power Wagon, I'm just gonna go with a blower.. Instant 100+ HP.. And it sounds way cool.

It already gets 5 - 6 MPG... Couldn't hurt.

Now I just need to wait for the $5,000 - 7,000 to do the job.

[Stoner]

I see the 'too good to be true' thread is up and running again

I missed fuelsaver's post last March.....now how did that happen?..

Wow...that: LINK
sure looks official. Grocery tape?



Ohio quit testing tailpipe emissions on OBD2 cars and trucks and is supposedly going to end EPA testing altogether. Good riddance.




Super-D-38.......sounds cool, if you do it, post pictures
Think I'll put my money in a new motorcycle. The Yamaha MT01 is supposed to be offered in the US as a 2006 model......I'll have to check it out

[Super-D-38]

OK, had a pic of the truck as is, but it's gone when the system died..
It may be in my ghost image, but now I need to find a way into it.. The PC has changed so I doubt it will load, so... I guess I may need to take more.

[turbo3000d]

IF YOU PURCHASED A TADGER UNIT AND HOMELAND SECURITY FINDS IT ON YOUR VEHICLE THEY CAN IMPOUND YOUR VEHICLE AND OR REMOVE THE UNIT.
IF YOU WANT THE REAL DEAL FOR LESS THAN $200.00 us you know where to go WWW.T_________.COM

JUST BEWARE OF FRAUDULENT CLAIMS BEFORE YOU BUY.

[Stoner]

"JUST BEWARE OF FRAUDULENT CLAIMS BEFORE YOU BUY."

Indeed _