[Steve-x8086]

Well, this site has really done it now. Of all things, putting Doubleclick here. That is really low, to give Doubleclick the access to the people that use this help site. And of all sites, this one.

On top of that, adding a links list at the bottom of Every page is very unecessary.

Advertising is one thing but giving Doubleclick access, BOO.
This will hurt all that use this site. Especially those who are waiting for answers because fewer people will browse to offer answers.

Steve-x8086

[Bryan]

I'm serious when I ask this question because I really don't know the answer. Anyway, could you explain to me and anyone else who cares to read this, how DoubleClick will hurt them? Personally, I'm curious how they would go about it and what exactly it is they will do to hurt me. I have never really looked into the specifics of advertising and cookie tracking since I really could care less who knows what sites I visit but maybe if I hear some more details on exactly how they would go about it then maybe I'll change my mind.

[Edited by Bryan on 05-10-2001 at 02:25 PM]

[bd]

Of what dire consequences are waiting in store as a result of someone tracking me. I guess I don't feel it is that important or I am not that important to them. Maybe there is more to it than I am aware of.
Bob

[it would have been more correct to have said " more to it than that of which I am aware" but that didn't seem as natural- and here I used to resent the aberrations of grammar standards which became accepted by way of common usage]I don't know whether I should take credit for for mellowing or shame for weakening.

[Edited by bd on 05-10-2001 at 10:34 PM]

[RandyG]

If you hate doubleclick so much, and I can understand why, then use ZeroClick to block the adds. And then use Adaware to remove any references and cookies by these spyware guys.


As far as the evils of Doubleclick, it's not so much that they track your movements over the web that is bothering everybody, it's that they are pervasive, and obtain this info without your awareness. Enter the fear of "Big Brother" and you can understand peoples concerns.


Steve, the only thing that doubleclick will be able to garner is that a lot of people who spend a good portion of their time on the internet stay on this site. That can only be good for Techguy.

[Bryan]

What do they use to track you? What's unique in a cookie that identifies you? If the cookies are deleted regularly, is there something else they are accessing on the PC to identify you besides the cookie? It seems to me that the method of tracking is serious flawed and in reality, impossible to accomplish. Maybe someone else can explain how they are able to track you if the cookies are deleted regularly.

[bd]

This link a while back and I didn't have time to explore it but saved it and was even able to find it again.

Maybe it would be of interest to someone reading this topic.

http://www.cookiecentral.com/

Bob






[Edited by bd on 05-10-2001 at 10:27 PM]

[Davey7549]

DoubleClick is on thousands of sites and so far is harmless.
To be honest I think my cable ISP has it. So anytime I fire up there it is!! As far as I'm concerned why should I care if they track where I've been or going! Half the time I don't even know that. Besides that I been told to go to a few places they may not want to follow me!

[Bryan]

My sentiments exactly ....... If Doubleclick was run by the Russian Mafia then I might be concerned but their not, so I'm not. And besides that, I'm not convinced that they can track you if you clean your cookie folder regularly but I'll be interested if someone can explain to me how they could.

[Edited by Bryan on 05-10-2001 at 08:53 PM]

[bd]

I have read Bryan's and other's advice for deleting cookies, temp. files, etc. but still am not sure which files are which and how you avoid deleting cookies that contain pasword recognition for sites that you no longer have the passwords for to reenter.

Is there a good source of explanation of how these files relate and where to locate, identify, and manipulate them without just blanket deletion?
Bob

Bryan replied to this post but on another thread , so I included it here:

Bryan
Senior Member

Registered: Jul 1999
Posts: 9162
Bd, what will happen if the cookie gets corrupted? My point being, I suggest everyone write down a list of their userids and passwords rather than relying on cookies to access a site. Then periodically deleting your cookies won't be a problem.





05-11-2001 09:33 AM



[Edited by bd on 05-12-2001 at 06:59 AM]

[Steve-x8086]

Wow. Youn's (hows that for grammer?) have all had good thoughts.

It has been a while since I read about Doubleclick but here is some of what I remember, be it right or wrong. By gathering information about a user (not by cookies specifically) it determines what ads that it thinks that a user will use. It also predetermines what sites may be shown when some search engines are used. A cookie may be accessed by different sites that participate with Doubleclick. Therefor, a cookie or other used by Doubleclick and its associates, may contain the site types that we may visit from within this Tech site.

I am not sure if Doubleclick can manage to send ads to users E-Mails or Web Sites by having this information.

FYI, in the 2.5 years that I have been on the Web, I have never deleted my cookies nor have I found them to cause any problems. However, I am Very carefull what sites I visit and always delete the Temp files.

Let's use this post to answer this concern. If we all do some research and then Post it here we may learn something.

Thanks y'all, Steve-x8086

[Edited by Steve-x8086 on 05-11-2001 at 03:02 AM]

[RandyG]

Here's an interesting article:

DoubleClick Has Double-Crossed the Net


Here's another one, but this was actually written by Double-click, so take it with a grain of salt.

PrivacyChoices




[Edited by RandyG on 05-11-2001 at 07:12 AM]

[bd]

And Randy responded with exactly the type of information called for.
The Doubleclick Privacy Choices link is very informative and has links to other information for consumers [which we all are].

One inaccuracy in the Doubleclick claims I noticed was that cookies do not allow reading of information on your hard drive . Cookies are obviously on your hard drive and do allow information to be received from it by the cookie's originator.

Double click makes some good points for cookies and gives an option for you to not receive its cookies.

You already have that option in not visiting a site that uses cookies or setting your browser to not accept cookies.

It all comes back to the basic fact that you are the one responsible for the results of your own actions.

As [ I think it was Socrates ]said 'there is one good -knowledge and one evil- ignorance'

YOU need to be aware of the consequences of anything you do. Your parents , your friends , the government ,the police, or anyone or anything else MAY be helpful but however good intentioned they are ,cannot protect you from your own ignorance .

The more 'protection' that is provided beyond our own judgement the less we are free to use that judgement.

Bob

The link to UCAN has some interesting info on the fuel price situation.

[Edited by bd on 05-12-2001 at 06:47 AM]

[Steve-x8086]

Good job RandyG. Unfortunately that report you linked to, dated 03/02/2000, is out of date. Following is some very concerning information that I have uncovered:

In June, 2000 Doubleclick Purchased Abacus. Abacus data files contain the names, addresses and retail purchasing habits of 90% of the American households. Yes, ninety percent.

Doubleclick has now started a practice called profiling. In many cases, the exact Identity of the person visiting one of 11,500 sites that use their ad-tracking cookies is now known by Doubleclick.

Doubleclick has avoided the direct association of data by using a third site. 1) Doubleclick sends a cookie to your browser and gives it an unique ID number. 2) Doubleckick sends the same ID number on to the third site that knows who you are. 3) That site then sends back to Doubleckick information on you that allows them to look you up in the Abacus database. Doubleclick Owns Abacus.

Combine the over 100,000,000 files obtained by Doubleclick's cookies with Abacus's files on 90,000,000 households and it is very easy for people to loose their identity on the Web.

Currently, the FTC is investigating Doubleclick. I will continue to update this as I gather more information.

Till later, Steve-x8086

[Edited by Steve-x8086 on 05-17-2001 at 01:49 AM]

[YSB]

I'm not sure where you got that info but I have a lot of problems with it.

Abacus data files contain the names, addresses and retail purchasing habits of 90% of the American households. Yes, ninety percent.

How exactly would a single company have a way to collect that kind of data? 90% of Americans aren't online. I don't know what the exact percentage is but it's MUCH lower than that. I doubt that 90% of Americans use credit cards regularly. The percentage is probably pretty high for that but I doubt it's 90%. How could they determine the retail purchasing habits of a family that doesn't buy online and uses cash?? There is no way for an outside agency to connect the purchases to the family unless it's the KGB and following you all the time. Even those families that do use the internet and credit cards. ALL credit card companies and internet sites would have to submit private data to that company for them to accumulate ANY specific info on 90% of American families. That is not only unlikely but would mean that all those companies are engaged in unethical sharing of private data. I don't know about you but I'm not that paranoid.

Doubleclick has avoided the direct association of data by using a third site. 1) Doubleclick sends a cookie to your browser and gives it an unique ID number. 2) Doubleclick sends the same ID number on to the third site that knows who you are. 3) That site then sends back to Doubleclick information on you that allows them to look you up in the Abacus database. Doubleclick Owns Abacus.

Let's assume for a minute that Abacus really has my private info. The only ID in the Doubleclick cookie that uniquely identifies me is a random ID number. If I have more than one computer or if I delete the cookie every now and then and a new one is placed on my computer, how is anyone supposed to figure out that all those ID numbers all point to me? As far as I can tell, it would be unlikely enough to figure out that all those ID numbers belong to the same person. The likelihood of being able to actually match that number with another DB that has my true ID is almost nil. Remember, the Doubleclick cookie might be placed on my computer by visiting a site such as this one. There is nothing on this site that has any reference to my true ID. The only way to get a name or other identifying info into the cookie would be if I had it stored somewhere on my computer and the cookie was more like a trojan horse that could hack other files on the computer. Somehow I doubt it.

Now, let's say that Abacus has really been trailing me around for years and Doubleclick planted a malicious cookie on my system that can generate a number that would read my mind and figure out what name it matched in the Abacus DB and then track everything I do on the net so they know that I bought a book at Amazon.com and offered some help at TSG and that I'm wearing white underwear... Now what?!? So does that mean from now on I'll only see ads for the latest novels, Tech support resources and Hanes? That would be terrible! I shudder at the thought!!


[Edited by YSB on 05-18-2001 at 12:46 AM]

[Steve-x8086]

OK YSB. Here's your answers. 1st, the information about Abacus having collected information on the buying habits of 90% of the American households is a direct quote from USA TODAY. I cannot verify USA TODAY's accuracy but they have high standards.

2nd, Abacus does Not collect information about Online things. Abacus's information is obtained about regular purchases such as a trip to Lowes for a hammer and it was charged. Of course, a cash purchase isn't recorded Unless, a Warranty slip is sent in or some other kind of registration.

3rd, most all credit card companies, financial institutions and large retail Do sell information to companies such as Abacus. Read the fine print.

4th, Yes, if you delete the cookies every day, Doubleclick would have a very hard time associating information. However, if you don't delete them, like most Online users, they will get your information matched. They do this by assigning a SPECIFIC (not random) number to a terminal. This number may be matched by an E address that was used, an User ID or other source. No, a cookie can't read your drive but when a user provides a piece of identification the site that you are using can attach the Specific Doubleclick number to it and double click can then add it to it's database. Then it's just a matter of crossreferencing the info.

5th, Yes a cookie is left showing that you were on the TSG but in addition to that, cookie information is left that shows all the ads that were viewed while you were on TSG. The same Specific number is used for all of them. This can be retrieved and matched at Doubleclick Before you end the day and delete the cookies.

Here is an interesting point. I just searched the Bankrate.com site for some information and tried to have it E'd to my E address. The E went properly but when I received it, the Sent To was not my E address but my LAST NAME.

I have Never purchased Online and always have been very diligent to register as John Doe on Doe Lane in Forest, Pa.. I cannot remember ever using my last name to register or in any kind of address. Somehow they crossed my E address with something and came up with my name.

I wonder if the ISP's give their E addresses to people like Switchboard and names are included.

Hope this clears some things up.

Steve-x8086

[Edited by Steve-x8086 on 05-19-2001 at 09:41 PM]