[sy2]

Haven't read all the posts, but I want to weigh in as I saw Stoner's link to this thread in CD.

I can understand that entering CD and reading many of the posts there can be... well, overwhelming is a word, I suppose. But is that a bad thing?

I came here, like 99% of users I'd assume, because I had a tech problem. What kept me here, however, was the community and the interesting discussions that took place in CD/Random. Without those forums, chances are I would have logged in, gotten help, and only returned when something else went wrong. If that's all you want from a forum then that's fine, but without someplace for people to talk amongst themselves or to debate hot issues that they're passionate about you kill the community.

I think CD is a very valuable resource. It's where I often go to bounce ideas around, test hypotheses, find articles relating to the news and whatnot, etc... Yes, it can get heated in there but no one is making anyone read anything. Not to mention that there's a disclaimer right in front of you when you click to enter the boards.

There is no reason that a CD/Random forum need detract from the technical capabilities of this site (by "technical capabilities I mean ability to solve technical questions). It doesn't need to be one or the other by any means. If it were my site, I might make the disclaimer a little bigger or scarier to detract those who may get offended from entering. Either that or make a separate link to that forum that is tiny and at the bottom of the page. Let the CD regulars know about the change and that should do it.

It just seems a bit ridiculous to me to say something like, "That site has a forum in which non-technical matters are discussed, therefore that site can not be a successful technical site." Removing CD and Random would kill a lot of traffic, IMO, and it would be a terrible loss in my eyes.

[JEBWrench]

Agreed entirely, sy2.

Ferrija pointed out the minimize button - and it goes along with this crazy little thought of mine. If you don't want to read something, don't.

[ChrisJones]

Originally Posted by Fidelista

Well , I was really unaware that TSG had all these problems, I thought it was well laid out by subject and well ran.??? In fact , the best site of its kind because it offers so much , to so , many in one place. From Tech help --to photos --to banter -- to the more "dangerous" subjects, a site that has something for everybody.
I think the mods do a great job , didnt see a problem there either.
In fact it kind of irritates me to hear critisim of Mods --when its obvious they do damn fine job.
As far as Civ-Deb giving TSG a bad reputation ---why so ? and with whom???.
Just some hot arguements from time to time on subjects that are sure to make them happen.
It was said earlier that some are too sensitive --of course there are, but nobody is bending their arm to stick around Civ-Deb. If you cater to the most sensitive people in world -- you will miss a lot of fun!. I have to say , I have learned a few things from members in that forum , and appreciate it. Who knows how many visitors have benefited from reading opinion?.
From reading some posts on subject , it appears to me that some members want the site to reflect their interests --and not the wider range of things that others enjoy.
Thats the beauty of this site as it stands now, its one click for almost any interest.
There are many Tech forums and ones that cater to specific subjects , but none as diverse as this one -- really unique.
Mike , I would say be careful. You have created something really outstanding, and sometimes messing with success is not the wisest move.
TSG is one site that would be hard to improve on --IMO. >f

I have to say I agree with Fidelista on this one.

I too was unaware that civ deb and random were giving TSG a bad name. However if this is the case then perhaps they could be hidden within the site and access granted if the user requests this. Perhaps you could charge a small annual fee say, five bucks, it could be used to pay for the bubbly at the Admin/Mods/Owners christmas party! Seriously though, being asked to cough up a small fee might stop those few users who swing by civ deb/random after being in the tech side for help and get sucked into the melee.

By charging a small fee the member can be made to understand that THEY are requesting access to these forums and that they are paying for the privilege of said access. IMO, the usual rules and regs should still apply as they do now. With the brave mods helping sort things out if it gets too messy. I have to say I've not seen many incidents where mods have had to step in and halt proceedings. Sure there's the odd idiot here and there but they usually get themselves banned within a week or two, some members sail close to the wind with regards breaking the rules, but as the forums say, don't enter if you have thin skin.

Just my thoughts on the subject.

Chris

[ChrisJones]

Originally Posted by sy2

Haven't read all the posts, but I want to weigh in as I saw Stoner's link to this thread in CD.

I can understand that entering CD and reading many of the posts there can be... well, overwhelming is a word, I suppose. But is that a bad thing?

I came here, like 99% of users I'd assume, because I had a tech problem. What kept me here, however, was the community and the interesting discussions that took place in CD/Random. Without those forums, chances are I would have logged in, gotten help, and only returned when something else went wrong. If that's all you want from a forum then that's fine, but without someplace for people to talk amongst themselves or to debate hot issues that they're passionate about you kill the community.

I think CD is a very valuable resource. It's where I often go to bounce ideas around, test hypotheses, find articles relating to the news and whatnot, etc... Yes, it can get heated in there but no one is making anyone read anything. Not to mention that there's a disclaimer right in front of you when you click to enter the boards.

There is no reason that a CD/Random forum need detract from the technical capabilities of this site (by "technical capabilities I mean ability to solve technical questions). It doesn't need to be one or the other by any means. If it were my site, I might make the disclaimer a little bigger or scarier to detract those who may get offended from entering. Either that or make a separate link to that forum that is tiny and at the bottom of the page. Let the CD regulars know about the change and that should do it.

It just seems a bit ridiculous to me to say something like, "That site has a forum in which non-technical matters are discussed, therefore that site can not be a successful technical site." Removing CD and Random would kill a lot of traffic, IMO, and it would be a terrible loss in my eyes.

Excellent post!

[JEBWrench]

And another thought - Random and CD give people something to do between tech issues. And if people are around, on the site, then tech questions get answered faster. A lot of very knowledgeable people wouldn't be around as much save for that.

[iltos]

my cut and paste from "up above"

"i'd feel a loss if tsg abandoned these two forums

what struck me about some of the negative comments posted over in the site suggestion thread is how much people expect from a site like this, and how little the fact that all the help here is volunteer matters.

as a contractor, i've ocassionally had clients who seemed to imagine that i was sitting outside their home in my truck, waiting for them to call

somehow, it's that attitude i felt in those negative comments, that this place owes them something because they've got a problem....this is so obviously the tiniest minority that it's difficult to imagine it carrying any weight in that discussion

there are currently only 98 registered users here....but almost 1400 guests, and not all of 'em just have their tsg window open while they're making dinner, refreshing every little bit to see if someone posted help. a good many are looking this site over to pass the time, i reckon.....would they bother to stay without random and civ deb?......maybe....there is certainly a lot of other info here about everything computers....they might even find a semplance of the comradrie that exists in the discussion forums, as it exists in many places here, with users who never wander into discussion.

but i submit that comraderie exists because of the discussion forums, as problematic and chaotic as they are.....they maybe the "black sheep" of the site, but they are also what makes this site whole.

k...done now"

[Mulderator]

Originally Posted by Yankee Rose

Civilized Debate and Random have really detracted from what this site was initially set up to do ..... provide tech support.

How?

[Mulderator]

Originally Posted by Gibble

Without them you end up with a lot of off-topic threads in other areas.

Exactly--I was here 8 years ago when they started and thats why they started because it happens anyway, but in other forums.

The irony is the discussion then what to start them SO THOSE DISCUSSIONS WOULDN'T DETRACT FROM THE TECH FORUMS. Now we got people who claim that we should get rid of them BECAUSE THEY DETRACT FROM THE TECH FORUMS, which I can't fathom how.

It really boils down to you are always going to have a group of people disastisfied--and those are the ones who tend to run off and make user comments in other forums as their way of making sure someone knows their opinion was right! Everyone thinks he/she can make the better mousetrap and don't like it when other people don't realize they are best at making mousetraps!

[GoneForNow]

Originally Posted by JohnWill

Well, the volume of reports and squables from CD exceeds all other forums combined, just FYI.

Well, I can start posting in the tech forums if you'd like to get the number of complaints up.


Excuse me but I saw something posted by AcaCandy that will allow me to sexually harass her, be right back.

[Mulderator]

Originally Posted by JohnWill

Well, the volume of reports and squables from CD exceeds all other forums combined, just FYI.

And that keeps it out of the tech forums.

[GoneForNow]

Originally Posted by AcaCandy

Damn, I should be President

Owww, can I volunteer to be First Gentleman?

[Mulderator]

Originally Posted by pugmug

I stop no one here from doing anything as I am not an admin or mod. I just respond to the post.Have I stated anything bad about your post? Who is being obstinance to whom here?

If you don't like the dicussion boards, why do you go there?

[poochee]

Originally Posted by JohnWill

Well, the volume of reports and squables from CD exceeds all other forums combined, just FYI.

I have always wondered about that from some of the stuff I read.

[Mulderator]

Mike--how about an option where the discussion boards are visible but when you first cliick on it as a new member, it pops up some sort of warning that this is an adjunct board for discussion only and not part of the tech support forums--no questions are posted there for tech support and will be move to tech support or something to that effect?

And I have no idea what the post count and distinguished member issue has to do with this?

[Mulderator]

Let me recount a story that happened that just about no one except Mike and me will remember because no one else I know of is still here from back then. I was here about a month or so and there was this thread that one of the moderators started--I forget--he was unsatisfied with the way things worked here (we didn't have discussion forums so it was probably started in a comments section) and what impressed me was that Mike didn't shut it down--the thread was aimed at Mike and critical of him and Mike made every effort at trying to discuss the guy problems, etc., so this guy left in a huff with another moderator and started their own tech support site, which has since been closed. I became a moderator a few weeks after that!

I actually took a cue from that and ever since then have made every effort at letting people whine and complain and bit$h and moan about how they would like to see things run primarily because that's how this 18 or 19 year old kid at the time did it and also because that's the principles this country was founded on--debate and differences aired out--the 1st Amendment--frank and open discussion.

Point is there will always be complainers and they tend to be the loudest voices even though they make up the small minority of members.

I'll tell you what I would like to see--anyone who hits the "report" buttin in Random and CivDebate to get a message as follows:

We cannot keep everyone happy--there are appropriate warnings on these forums and apparently you either didn't read them or didn't understand them--either way--STAY OUT OF THESE FORUMS IF YOU DON'T LIKE THEM!!! Your subscription to Random and CivDebate has expired--you can re-enter in a month or after the payment of $100

That would solve all the damn problems real fast!