Doing something illegal? Encrypt your files!

**TechGuy** · 17-Dec-2007, 11:01 AM #1

Quote from http://www.news.com/8301-13578_3-9834495-38.html?tag=nefd.top

In potentially landmark case, Vermont judge says that thanks to Fifth Amendment, child pornography defendant doesn't need to divulge his laptop's encrypted passphrase.

I'm not sure how I feel about this one. When it comes to child porn, I'd like the guy to get busted. I never would have considered that he wouldn't be required to hand over the password. Interesting...

**iltos** · 17-Dec-2007, 12:15 PM #2

Quote:

Originally Posted by TechGuy

Quote from http://www.news.com/8301-13578_3-9834495-38.html?tag=nefd.top

In potentially landmark case, Vermont judge says that thanks to Fifth Amendment, child pornography defendant doesn't need to divulge his laptop's encrypted passphrase.

I'm not sure how I feel about this one. When it comes to child porn, I'd like the guy to get busted. I never would have considered that he wouldn't be required to hand over the password. Interesting...

i agree with the busting him part.....seems the case hinges on the fact that two fbi agents saw the porn before the files were encrypted, but then turned off the laptop....

we need our legal beagles on this one....why wasn't the laptop taken as evidence that first time? isn't there some law about tampering with evidence?....wouldn't encrypting the files fall under tampering?

then they could just hold the guy for contempt if he wouldn't surrender it and the feds could run their password guessing program.

Nesjemannen · 17-Dec-2007, 01:49 PM #3

Quote:

Originally Posted by TechGuy

Quote from http://www.news.com/8301-13578_3-9834495-38.html?tag=nefd.top

In potentially landmark case, Vermont judge says that thanks to Fifth Amendment, child pornography defendant doesn't need to divulge his laptop's encrypted passphrase.

I'm not sure how I feel about this one. When it comes to child porn, I'd like the guy to get busted. I never would have considered that he wouldn't be required to hand over the password. Interesting...

Feel the same - Child Porn is terrible, horrible, inhuman business. They are ruining lifes, for God's sake!

Omg, and why do they let him go - without giving over the password?... That is just stupid...

**TechGuy** · 17-Dec-2007, 02:33 PM #4

I'm not sure, but from the article it sounds like the files automatically encrypted when shut down. It probably asks for the password whenever the drive is opened, and then remains available until shutdown... at which point the password is required again.

hewee · 18-Dec-2007, 12:08 AM #5

It did not say why they even looked at his laptop to start with. Do they look at everyones computer that crosses the border?
I think what the guy was doing is wrong but still why did they look at the laptop to start with.

**iltos** · 18-Dec-2007, 10:18 AM #6

Quote:

Originally Posted by hewee

It did not say why they even looked at his laptop to start with. Do they look at everyones computer that crosses the border?
I think what the guy was doing is wrong but still why did they look at the laptop to start with.

hmmm...good question....i got the impression that it was on already when they looked at it....or maybe they had sufficient reason to ask him to turn it on, and then they saw the pics, that were encrypted again when he shut it down (pretty arrogant of the guy, it that's the case....or he's got himself a really good lawyer)

i've taken my laptop across the border a couple of times....most anyone ever did was push the start button....when the lights went on, they handed it back.

hewee · 19-Dec-2007, 09:44 PM #7

That is just it what right did they have to look at it to start with.
Now that seem dumb if they start your laptop and then hand it back. That is not doing anything.
If they start it and wait to see the desktop to see what is on it and hand it back then that is not doing much either. But if they see sex wallpaper and files on the desktop then guess they can then do more.

Just put a good password on the login screen so when they start it up all they will ever see is the login screen and then you have the right not to give them the password.

**iltos** · 20-Dec-2007, 12:49 AM #8

Quote:

Originally Posted by hewee

That is just it what right did they have to look at it to start with.
Now that seem dumb if they start your laptop and then hand it back. That is not doing anything.

the way i heard it, a dummy laptop can conceal enough contraband to be worth its weight in gold (hehe...i guess some of them almost are, anyway

)

that's why i'm thinking the feds must have had a reason to look more closely, or the guy gave them some other reason to be suspicious.

hewee · 20-Dec-2007, 02:07 AM #9

I see a laptop that boots up is not full of drugs.

KMW · 20-Dec-2007, 10:08 AM **#10**

Ha, reading the thread title me thought Techguy wuz teaching us to do something shady

zabusant · 20-Dec-2007, 02:40 PM **#11**

I also still don't understand how this happened in the first place - I can imagine an "officer" booting up a laptop to see if it's not a dummy, but accessing files (I'm guessing the files didn't just pop up by themselves) - didn't know they were qualified to do that, it all seems a bit fishy.

However I don't see how the fifth am. protects someone from giving up their password since the article states that a person can be legally compelled to hand over a key - what is a password, if not a key?

jaye944 · 21-Dec-2007, 11:42 AM **#12**

Forgetting about the child porn bit, I think we all agree on that side of things....

We dont have a 5th ammendment in the UK

But my take on this it the law "IS" the law it is there to protect everyone.

As soon as you start saying whom a law should apply to or "extenuating" circumstances then you are on a VERY slippery slope.

Sometimes the law protects scumbags....
and sometimes it protects the innocent !

bmt626 · 21-Dec-2007, 12:15 PM **#13**

it seems his laptop would have had to been on and he would have already had to access the drive in order for it not to prompt for a password. but techguy is right it sound like encrypts its self when shut down. Their best bet is to run scans to see if they can find files that had been deleted and not completely erased or look at logs to see if he had been sending the files via email.

zabusant · 21-Dec-2007, 09:55 PM **#14**

Are you serious jaye944? The right against self-incrimination originated in England, you do indeed have "the fifth amendment" in the UK (obviousely not by the same name though).

Of course, the law should be the same for everyone - but the law seems to be (at least that's what the article suggests) that a person can be legally compelled to hand over a key (a key to a safe containing evidence against himself) - so this does not seem to be a part of "the fifth" - since the act itself (of handing over the key) is not by itself self-incrimination. That happens only when the key is used and the evidence is gathered. But in the case of a password it seems this is not the case (or so the judge ruled) - and that's where I think either the decision or the law is wrong.
But it is what it is and until it gets changed (not likely), it applies to everyone equally - and that is how it should be.

hewee · 22-Dec-2007, 02:30 AM **#15**

Wonder if they are really trying to find the password.

Because here are Password Recovery Speeds
http://www.lockdown.co.uk/?pg=combi&s=articles

Search
Search in:
Show Threads Show Posts
Advanced Search

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)