[Stoner]

Several days ago. I was in a conversation where the topic went from the stability and security issues of XP to stability and security of 9x operating systems.
I agree completely that Win2k and XP are superior systems, but....there are still some people using 9x on older equipment that look for help.
The fellow I was debating claimed all 9x users should immediately upgrade to 2K or XP or buy a new computer.
Is it proper to persuade them to immediately upgrade or even buy new computers?
If their system fulfills their needs and their security works for them, why not keep what they have?
If something goes wrong, and it happens to old and new computer, why not help them fix what they have?

So, a 9x user has problems................
One, it's unknown if the system they have is faulting from hardware or software problems, so an upgrade is inappropriate at that point.
Two, many older systems don't have the specs to provide acceptable speed. So, an upgrade is especially worthless and the purchase of a new comp possibly unnecessary if repair of hardware or a reinstall of the OS is a solution to their needs.
Three, there is the financial consideration of whether a user wants to spend the extra money if the old system had previously been functioning to their needs.
And some people are stubborn

A claim was made that 9x was neither stable nor secure for internet usage.
I commented I had been using a 98se computer with good success for what I do.
But the disagreement continued.

So, I decided to run a simple test using win95 on a Celeron 500 with 192 mb memory, onboard sound and video, and using it on line for the next month or so, and see what kind of stability issues and security problems crop up.

The computer was bought at a city auction for $10, several years ago. I suspect it's worth less today
Extra memory came from scarffing up junk computer parts here and there, no real expense.
The comp came with an ethernet card.
The hard drive worked, passed the mfg. tests, but was quite whiney, so I replaced it with a used 6gig WesternDigital that also cost little to nothing.
The win95 install disk was bought at a business auction several years ago.....$5.
I put a Kyphermedia(?) CDRW in it that I bought new for $15 at OfficeMax, that is really intended for a different computer.

The install is several months old, but was not online but several hours till I recently decided to see how it fared on the Internet full time.
I started using this machine seriously on Oct 20.


The install went properly. No glitches.

Most software that I wanted to install, did install and function correctly.
Exceptions were:
Norton Antivirus has been reported to not install properly.
I used the free AVG 7.

Adaware se will not install. I copied the Adaware se folder out of a 98se install and ran it until something else I installed conflicted. Not sure, but I think it was the DX8.0 upgrade as Adaware functioned till then. But, Adaware se will upgrade it's defs properly and will run in Safe Mode.

Spybot 1.4 won't run. I installed version 1.3 and upgraded it's defs manually with 1.4's defs as I found other users doing.

BHODemon will run and register the BHOs, but lacks the registry script to store an active BHO you might want to 'kill'. (Once known, Hijackthis can be used.)

Spyware blaster doesn't recogonize the existence of Firefox. The win95 method of install leaves a Firefox file structuere devoid of the files needed for recognition. I compared the program files in 95 to 98se and merely copied the excess files into the 'tree' and opened Spywareblaster. It recogonized Firefox's presence and seemingly wrote the necessary 'kill bits' to the registry. Then I renamed the extra files till the next Spywareblaster update....yes a little bit of a hassle, not too bad, though.
___________________________

Side notes:
Internet Explorer 5.5 was installed as it had code in it some apps needed, like MS Money and Firefox 1.07.
To install Firefox, this is a good source of info: http://johnhaller.com/jh/mozilla/windows_95/
( one drawback is that Firefox won't import favorites from an outside source. The htm Favorites file you want to import can be dragged into the Firefox Bookmarks Manager, making it a web page and all the favorites..... links. From there you can open the favorite and then save it....I know...a hassle...but IMO, worth it if you want to use Firefox. )

I did the standard tweaks on Firefox's configuration as with 98se.
Firefox seems to perform the same as on a P3 500 98se machine I use. Nice.


I picked up win95 msconfig a long time ago, for an older laptop. I do not remember where it came from, sorry.

Defrag is from win me.

PaintShop Pro 7 is the free download version....thanks to hewee..

Taskmanager is a small app from: http://www.securitysoftware.cc/apps.html

I installed Karen Kenworthy's Computer Profiler from here: http://www.karenware.com/powertools/powertools.asp
( She has lots of free software that is useful )

The CDRW does a fine job with out burning coasters. It will burn from the hard drive at 40x , a 500mb iso file with out the buffer going lower that 96%.

My security apps are:
AVG 7 (free version)
Norton Firewall 2000
Spywareblaster
Spybot S&D
Adaware se
Hijackthis
BHODemon
Firefox has the NoScript, Adblock, RIP and Flashblock extensions installed.

I am also behind a Linksys firewall router.

I pass GRC's firewall test.
I pass GRC's leaktest.


I am using an early version of Abiword rather than MS Word, just as a test to see how well it replaces Word 2000.


I have gotten three BSOD's trying to get Adaware se to run under Windows after installing DX8.0. As I mentioned earlier, it will update itself but not run a scan with out locking up in 'normal' windows.....but will run in safe mode.

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Things I don't like.

Double clicking the mouse

Window size for anything less than 'full' varies and it's placement on the desktop a bit random.

The worst is not having good USB coverage. USB flash drives are so convenient now, but I also have a scanner and camera I can't access with win95.

Voice recognition won't run on win95 and most likely not this machine as it's specs are too near the minimum.




Well, if you read this far, you probably wonder why? Why bother? Who cares?
I don't care that much, myself. Just curious.
Win 95 isn't popular today and probably never will be again.
But there are a few people still using it and using their computer as they intended, otherwise they upgrade to what they need.

I was told 9x is too unstable and not secure enough for Internet usage.

Well, I'm going to give win95 a spin for a month or so and report back periodically on how it stacks up as an Internet surfing machine, whether the security I installed is enough, whether it is stable enough to use .


( Please understand that this is not a recommendation to use win95 or 98se over 2K/ XP )

Attached is a screen shot of the desktop. I haven't decided on wallpaper yet.....maybe a nice XP scene

[valis]

sweet.....takes me back a few.....i know exactly what thread you are referring to, and I held my opinion then as I do now....but still, pretty dang impressive that you managed to cobble that together.....

[DaveBurnett]

I still use 95OSr2 on an old 133Mhz 32Mb laptop. It is used as a mail server and black box firewall for a network whose only access to the internet is via dial up on a free phone line from this machine. It has run without fail for 3 years. The only maintenamce is to AVG for definition updates. The firewall is Sygate 5.0.
I have no intention of replacing it until it fails.

[Kenny94]

Well, I'm going to give win95 a spin for a month or so and report back periodically on how it stacks up as an Internet surfing machine, whether the security I installed is enough, whether it is stable enough to use

Please do. I like to know your results.

[JohnWill]

The real problem with W95/98 is resource shrinkage. If you don't start and stop a lot of applications, it'll run for a long time. OTOH, the most common reason to have to reboot W95/98 is due to running out of resources. This is not an issue with 2K/XP.

[Shelly6]

Originally Posted by JohnWill

The real problem with W95/98 is resource shrinkage. If you don't start and stop a lot of applications, it'll run for a long time. OTOH, the most common reason to have to reboot W95/98 is due to running out of resources. This is not an issue with 2K/XP.

This was why I had to get a new machine. If I had the space I would have kept the old one purely for net surfing. It is still a perfectly usable computer. I even still have a Compaq Contura laptop with Win95. Why should we keep throwing things away? If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Originally Posted by Stoner

Attached is a screen shot of the desktop. I haven't decided on wallpaper yet.....maybe a nice XP scene

Exactly what I did. I will follow this one with great interest.

[Skivvywaver]

Originally Posted by JohnWill

The real problem with W95/98 is resource shrinkage. If you don't start and stop a lot of applications, it'll run for a long time. OTOH, the most common reason to have to reboot W95/98 is due to running out of resources. This is not an issue with 2K/XP.

Hey John, it has been years since I used win9x on a daily basis. I still have an old machine hooked up in the basement running win 98 for my old dos games though.

I was wondering if one of the tools to free up resources, ram idle comes to mind, would work to free the resources without a reboot. I know ram tools are worthless on an NT system but would one work on win9x?

[JohnWill]

There are tons of little utilities that claim to "solve" the resource issue with W9x, but none of them ever worked for me.

I resisted W2K until about 2001, I always felt "comfortable" with W98. I finally bit the bullet and moved on to NT based systems, and I've never regretted the move.

Anyone that experiences less reliable operation with 2K/XP than W98 needs to look at configuration or hardware reliability issues IMO. It's not that W98 can't do the job, but it's almost 2006 folks. W98 lost the battle and is an aging warrior, get over it and move on!

[Skivvywaver]

LOL, I have moved on but I love redneck rampage. That game makes me laugh my dumb arse off. As long as I can patch together an old system I'll have a win98 box.

I have had to steal parts from it on occasion but I always find a replacement. I am getting my father in laws machine this weekend. There is some sort of failure on boot. I am figuring a CPU fan but until I get it here in the house I won't know. The bios comes up, and then gives a warning that it can not complete the boot due to something failed. I am betting on the CPU fan. It isn't the HDD, that part passes but trying to talk to my mother in law over the phone to diagnose the problem just didn't work.

Hell, she can't even tell me if the fans are running or not. Deaf ol bitty.

[Mikrondel]

Originally Posted by Shelly6

This was why I had to get a new machine. If I had the space I would have kept the old one purely for net surfing. It is still a perfectly usable computer. I even still have a Compaq Contura laptop with Win95. Why should we keep throwing things away? If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Well said. I think many people who complain a Pentium 3 isn't fast enough are nuts. Sure you need fast computers for business, and, I concede, those stupid resource-hungry games, but my regular workstation has Windows 2000 on a Pentium 2. For almost all things it runs perfectly adequately.
I run a Linux server on a 12-year old machine. It's still reliable.

I think there's a lot of value in old hardware, and it just needs to be used appropriately. There's a nice Linux GUI called Anti-Right, designed to run on older machines. Sure it's not as pretty, but there's many people (myself inlcuded) who don't care for rounded edges or translucent windows. Especially when you only use it for occasional admin.

Bottom line- if you don't want it, give it to someone who does. I even wouldn't mind paying a few dollars for a working 386. If it's broken- remember, there are many parts and they're probably not all broken. (Especially older computers, before the days of onboard graphics, sound, and network cards)

[Stoner]

Mornin' everyone

I chose win95 as it's support by MS has been cut off for quite some time and most security apps aren't written with any consideration of running on it. I could have installed 98se, but I already use it and have previously commented on my experiences using it.

Obviously, Win95 is outdated. Many many things users have grown used to doing, don't happen on that platform.
But I'm only testing it as a means to surf the Internet.

I'm not an expert, just a user reporting what I see in this simple demonstration

A week ago, Spybot and Adaware both caught Alexa that comes bundled in Internet Explorer. Nothing else to date.
Here are some pics.
The desktop........I put up a WinXP theme
The computer....a lowly Celeron in a 'wide body' case that I laid on it's side because of space considerations ( I use a 4 port KVM )
And screen shots of the tests.
A week isn't much of a test, but I'll report back about once a week anyway.

[Stoner]

BTW, to take the photo of the computer, I had to first use another computer that could download the file from my camera( USB issue ). That's one strike against win95. So I used a win98se computer and transferred the file with an old fashioned floppy.

[JohnWill]

The term Luddite comes to mind.

[Stoner]

Originally Posted by JohnWill

The term Luddite comes to mind.

It was the XP wallpaper theme, wasn't it _

I knew I'd probably gone too far there ....



Anyone have a install set of floppies for win3.1.......LOL!....(j/k)

[JohnWill]

Well, the XP wallpaper did push me over the edge, before I was only thinking Luddite.