[tomfawcett]

Hi

I am a strong windows user. Obviously i have heard alot about unix and linux. Linux seems very complex and i really don't know where to start with having a fiddle to see where it gets me. Does anyone have any help or guidance for the complete beginner. Where do i need to go?

thanks

[tomfawcett]

it all looks so complicated. I feel like a pc illiterate again. You guys talk a foreign language. Its quite strange to find myself in this position. I don't much like it lol

[tsunam]

Well here's a good place to ask any questions you have about linux. And yes when you first start out it can be very confusing. Just think back when you first started window's or dos.. or however far you need to go back to that first use of a os. Its just like that all over again

Another good place to goto is www.linuxiso.org . They have all the major distro's and links to homepages that you can get more info on each one. For the first time i'd suggest a installer that is graphical, since doing it with text only will be a bang your head what the heck does this mean experience. You should enjoy linux not despise it right off the bat

[shadowcat]

Knoppix may be a good distro to start with -- it does not load on the hard drive since it runs from your CD-ROM. You can download it from the webpage tsunam suggested.

Another place you can look is The Linux Documentation Project, which also has a good online introduction to Linux.

[lynch]

Hello, tomfawcett.
Take a look at this Linux tutorial and check out the other links in my signature.
tsunam and shadowcat give good suggestions about how to start.
Knoppix can do several things for you:
1. By booting the Knoppix CD, you will have your computer's hardware detected as part of the normal Linux boot process and it's a good test to see if it's installed hardware is compatible or not. ( I use Knoppix to test my new builds)If you get to a GUI desktop, then you are usually good to go.
2. You can play around with Knoppix and get a feel for Linux without having to install it to a hard drive. And dont worry about it messing with a currently installed system; everything runs from memory.
3. If you like knoppix you can easily install it to a hard drive if you want.
If you are a strong windows user then you can be a strong Linux user.
HTH
lynch

[roachclip]

I sort of went the other way from Unix (back in early 90's) to Windows so Windows seems strange to me.

A couple of general comments as you begin to study Linux:

1. Windows holds your hand, Unix/Linux doesn't. If you are logged on as root, you are not god. God is a corporal compared to root. So, read anything about sys admin with that in mind because you will do most of it as root.

2. The standard editor, vi (and its cousins), is unique. You will probably use a screen editor but you should at least know enough vi to work in command line mode. You may not always have the luxury of a gui if you have problems.

3. Unix/Linux treats everything as a file - all the devices, everything.

4. Unix/Linux uses three files - stdit, stdout and stderr (that's standard in, standard out and standard error). These are your friends. Get to know how to use them.

5. Windows makes you think in its terms - i.e. how do I get this software to do so and so. You do what the software lets you. Unix/Linux is the other way - you figure out what you want to do and then get the tools together to do it. That's why I said to get familiar with stdin, stdout and stderr, because those are your quickest links from one routine to another.

6. Unix/Linux has some incredibly powerful tools - dig around in this site and in Google and see how some of them are used.

7. Get on the O'Reilly site and look at their books. To start, I recommend:
Running Linux - Matt Welsh, et. al.
Linux in a Nutshell - Ellen Siever, et. al.
Unix Power Tools - Jerry Peek, et. al.

I have a dual boot - Win2k/Red Hat machine and an old 486 clunker with Linux only. I enjoy it. If we can help let us know.

GO DUKE!

Tom

[lynch]

Hi, roachclip. Welcome to the Linux /UNIX forum.
Some good points made.

lynch

[tsunam]

personally i prefer nano over vi, most of the time its as simple as nano -w whatever file (-w is to tell it NOT to wrap it. Generally you want to use this on most files you'll do. Wrap can seriously screw up things )

Also being logged in as root most of the time is a bad idea. The reason being, that you can do some serious stuff to screw up your system without even realizing it in root. So for your everyday use, set up a user account... This is recommendation number 1 from anyone who uses linux often. No one wants to reinstall the os, from the ground up again. Especially considering that some people have a 30 page doc about what to do when they install a new system ^.^

If your familar with windows task manager the linux version is in a console to type in ps ax (this shows you all thats running.) if theres one that doesn't want to shut down its a simple as kill -9 (whatever number that process is)

hmm other helpful hints. Get familiar with your kernel compile options, you have a lot of power to add and remove things that you don't need in it, and vice versa, things you need but don't have. As part of that is your xfree options. This allows your mouse to work etc, in a gui environment.

If you have it networked you can check your ip addy with ifconfig (it'll list all your info about your net card address etc.)

Final one for now, df -h shows you all your hard drive info, how much is used etc. You'll get a printout that looks something like this

Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/hda3 147G 18G 122G 13% /
none 188M 0 188M 0% /dev/shm

those are some of the most helpful i've used over and over

[utanja]

hello roachclip and welcome...

i find the recommendations quite useful and informative....dont be afraid to ask....i have been using linux for many years and still sometimes get confused... so never think a question is too silly to ask...

[tomfawcett]

Hi

Thanks to all that have offered sound advice.

My first question is whats a roachclip?

second question I have a copy of Mandrake version 9 i think is this a good place to start

third question i'm wanting to run a web server and a mail server possible a little web site proxying. Can anyone suggest where i start.

Thanks

[utanja]

Originally posted by tom:
... My first question is whats a roachclip?

my error i am so sorry... ...i answer you with wrong member name...

[tomfawcett]

Hi Lynch

wow what a document "Linux tutorial" it has taken me the best part of 5 hours to read it. Really does go into detail. Thnaks for this link i'm sure that it will be usefull. I was kind of hopeing there was an easier learning curve than this but hey i'll get there.

I have a copy of mandrake 9.1 would you say that this is a good place to start?

I'm also waning to run a web server and mail server what are your thoughts?

cheers

Tom

[tsunam]

Well to run a server you'll need apache, php installed, perl, mysql for starters...Which all take time to install (read compile)

I'd probably do it in this order Apache, mysql, php, perl.

For a htp proxy, the best one i know of is squid

As far as a mailserver is concerned though I'm not sure about the start of that. I've never done one so...

Mandrake is a good place to start.

[roachclip]

A couple of people have asked what a roachclip is. I am 57 and back in the 60's when I was in college and the army, a roachclip was slang for a device used to hold the last of a joint so none of it was wasted. When you smoke a cigarette, the last of it is discarded as a butt. The butt of a joint is called a roach (I guess because it looks like one). But you don't just throw it down as a butt. Too expensive. Some guys in the Army used to take a cardboard match, split it lengthwise and then put the roach in there to finish it. Some had fancier ones, even silver. I never owned one and "That's the truth" as Lily Tomlin would say.

to tomfawcett: To improve the learning curve, I have a suggestion. Get a composition book for Linux and write down and date everything you do at first - loading, setting, etc. Later you will know what is important.

You can also use stdout (symbol >) and stderr (symbol 2>) to make yourself some log files and you won't have to write so much in your book.

Suppose for example that you want to install a certain app and that we are doing it from a command prompt rather than a GUI. Assume there is a command "install" and the app is called NewApp. The directions might have you enter something like below. (Note: $ is the Linux command prompt we will use here.)

$ install -r NewApp
-r is an option. Let's assume it means replace, i.e. replace any
existing version of the app. Suppose you get errors on the screen when you do this. So run it like this:
$ install -r NewApp >inst.out 2>inst.err
where you capture standard out in inst.out and standard error in
inst.err. Now you have a history of the output and can examine it more carefully. The important thing is you can easily submit parts of that output to groups like this to get feedback and help.

Now, I'm old school, so I do this stuff from the command prompt. I don't know how a modern release would capture these log files. Others will have ideas on that.
Tom

[Whiteskin]

Ahh, but for me, when i came from windows, doing it old school (Or today old skool, but not for me) was so much more fun!