[DKTaber]

Have an extremely strange e-mail issue. A friend who's one of my 'e-mail regulars' recently upgraded to a Maingear desktop. Since then, whenever he sends me an e-mail with an embedded image, it contains an attachment that is the same as the embedded image. So in the preview pane, I see the image twice, once as embedded and below that, the attachment. He uses Comcast Web mail to send all e-mails.

I do most of my e-mails on my XP desktop using Outlook Express (OE). If I try to forward one of the above described e-mails, (a) the attachment disappears and (b) so does the "embedded" picture, leaving only the place holder. I have experimented with Windows Live Mail, Comcast Web Mail, and Thunderbird and documented how each handles these strange e-mails, as follows:

· Window Live Mail (WLM), the successor to OE, also indicates the e-mail has an attachment on the list of e-mails in the Inbox, but again, when I click 'Forward', the attachment disappears. However, the embedded image survives and is received by the recipient.
· Comcast Web mail (CWM) also indicates in the Inbox that the message has an attachment, but like OE, when you click 'Forward', the attachment disappears. However, like WLM, the embedded image survives. CWM behaves essentially the same way WLM does.
· Thunderbird (TB) also indicates the incoming e-mail has an attachment, and displays it (like OE does) below the message, but the embedded image is not there; only the place holder. However, when I 'Forward' the message, the attachment is NOT lost/is attached and displays below the message. TB is the only e-mail program that recognizes the attachment as 'real'.

What is causing this very strange behavior?

[throoper]

The double image is normal if you're set to view attachments inline. You see it where the sender inserted it as an embedded image and if the source was attached, you get the second image below the message (the inline attachment).
If the recipient doesn't want the double image, set the mail client to not view attachments inline.
If the sender doesn't want to send as an attachment, deselect sending the source as an attachment.

[DKTaber]

T.H. I've never seen any place in OE or WLM where you could specify whether or not to see attachments "inline". If the sender sent the message with both an embedded image and the same image attached, when I click 'Forward', both should be retained in the message. Not only does that not happen, BOTH the embedded and the attached images disappear.

Today I got something from this sender with a new twist. Same look (embedded image + attachment of same image), but the embedded image contained a hyperlink. When I hit 'Forward', again both the embedded image and the attachment disappeared, but I could now see the full hyperlink (http:// etc.) inside the placeholder where the image had been, so it was retained. So the embedded image and the attachment were NOT identical.

[throoper]

Sorry Don. Brain burp. What I posted about inline only applies to TB and the source part to only mine.
Let me try again with a little focus on what you actually said.

What's he using for a mail program and is he 1)embedding the image using the programs insert function 2)attaching the image using the programs attach file function 3)doing both and why the heck is he doing both.

Have you looked at the Message Source to see if the image info is with the message and if it has the IMG embed tags in the right place if it's inserted? FYI:The Message source view in TB is easier to decipher than MS clients as it doesn't add a lot of MS specific data to the source view. It's just the raw message data.
Embedded data will have the IMG src code where it's inserted and a block of data with the same ID number below the message data.
Attachment data will be the last block.

[DKTaber]

Originally Posted by throoper

Sorry Don. Brain burp. What I posted about inline only applies to TB and the source part to only mine. Let me try again with a little focus on what you actually said.

What's he's using for a mail program and is 1)embedding the image using the programs insert function 2)attaching the image using the programs attach file function 3)doing both and why the heck is he doing both.

Have you looked at the Message Source to see if the image info is with the message and if it has the IMG embed tags in the right place if it's inserted? FYI:The Message source view in TB is easier to decipher than MS clients as it doesn't add a lot of MS specific data to the source view. It's just the raw message data.
Embedded data will have the IMG src code where it's inserted and a block of data with the same ID number below the message data.
Attachment data will be the last block.

Tom: Based on what he tells me, he's doing none of that. He is simply forwarding e-mails he gets from someone else. I looked at the message source, but didn't see the "IMG" embed tags. Here's what the source header says:

From - Fri Jul 27 13:28:07 2012
X-Account-Key: account3
X-UIDL: 451100.t,nAY4EGPxf3Ar,ITvW5uKiQB6k=
X-Mozilla-Status: 0000
X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000
X-Mozilla-Keys:
Return-Path: (his e-mail address, which I don't want to reveal)
Received: from omta04.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (LHLO
omta04.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net) (76.96.62.35) by
sz0019.wc.mail.comcast.net with LMTP; Fri, 27 Jul 2012 16:37:22 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from (Name)PC ([71.230.129.216])
by omta04.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast
id fUdD1j00v4gGdiX3QUdHt2; Fri, 27 Jul 2012 16:37:18 +0000
X-CAA-SPAM: F00000
X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.0 cv=IsKcgcDg c=1 sm=1
a=wYUWyVw/buzPT9I8NFFs9w==:17 a=xmzx30A43NEA:10 a=rl5eUP2J6s4A:10
a=C_IRinGWAAAA:8 a=w7locLpfAAAA:20 a=C1Dme_gBJaZMvBzKd88A:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10
a=yMhMjlubAAAA:8 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=gKO2Hq4RSVkA:10 a=UiCQ7L4-1S4A:10
a=hTZeC7Yk6K0A:10 a=frz4AuCg-hUA:10 a=tXsnliwV7b4A:10
a=OtMxBRT0oGlFBs0NMB4A:9 a=KQqxNPgzF0kA:10 a=TIbtcpfZcAty9BYo:18
a=wYUWyVw/buzPT9I8NFFs9w==:117
From: (his e-mail address)
To: (his e-mail address)
Subject: Four reasons not to drive a small car
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 12:37:19 -0400
Message-ID: <000001cd6c16$16f5cbe0$44e163a0$@net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01CD6BF4.8FE42BE0"
X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0
Thread-Index: Ac1rvcV+ds4yEdyfQ36SE8KCpuFodAAWCN8A
Content-Language: en-us

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Four good reasons not to drive a small car

Click on the car ...

<http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb330/theferalirishman/8boobs.jpg>
Description:
http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/...man/8boobs.jpg

See what you'd miss out on, if you drove "this" Smart vehicle . . . . . . .

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So, you tell me. . . what is this saying?

[throoper]

Well Don, I think (not 100%) what's happening is the original message was done in Outlook12.
It renders OK for the original recipient, but when it's forwarded in line it loses part of it's coding.
It looks like one of those MS Outlook proprietary things that causes it to not play well with any other programs, similar to when Outlook is set to use RTF and recipients get a winmail.dat attachment (even in OE).
If he sent it to you forwarded as an attachment, the attachment would be the e-mail in the same form he received it in and would likely display properly for you.
Other than that, I don't know what he could do other than use Outlook to keep it in it's original form when forwarding.

A couple things I learned that have nothing to do with the problem, though.
I REALLY want to be on his mailing list and I need a bigger car.

[DKTaber]

Tom: As a test of this theory -- the first plausible explanation I've gotten -- I've asked my buddy to (a) send the e-mail to me as an attachment and (b) ask the person who forwarded it to him what they use for e-mail. Will let you know if he's willing to do that and what, if anything, it reveals.

[throoper]

As I'm looking at it, I believe your friend is the one using Outlook. "X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0".
That line indicates what program that message is being generated in.
Probably whatever he's got set for formatting (I'll guess RTF is what does all the xmlns additions to the original mail) is what's messing it up as it goes downstream.

[DoubleHelix]

What's your goal with all this research, DKTaber? Are you going to tell all of your friends that they need to change their e-mail client or change the way they send e-mail messages to everyone in your group just so you have a consistent attachment experience?

If this is anything except an academic exercise in how e-mail clients and servers send messages and attachments, I suggest you drop it. There are no technical problems with any of this. It's just the way e-mail works.

[DKTaber]

Originally Posted by throoper

As I'm looking at it, I believe your friend is the one using Outlook. "X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0".
That line indicates what program that message is being generated in.
Probably whatever he's got set for formatting (I'll guess RTF is what does all the xmlns additions to the original mail) is what's messing it up as it goes downstream.

He told me he used Comcast Web mail. Will have to see what his response is.

[throoper]

Hey Don,
Just checking to see if any light has been shed on the mystery.

[DKTaber]

Tom: I'm sooooo sorry. I have too many 'computer things' going on and forgot about this thread. Just spent 2 days removing viruses from a computer where the guy LET HIS NORTON AV EXPIRE and CONTINUED TO USE THE COMPUTER!! Avast and Malwarebytes could not find it; had to use ESET's online scanner + Combofix with instructions from 'Jeff' on TSG. Finally arrived at at point where I could say "There is no indication that there are any viruses or spywere on the computer." I will NOT say that there are none of those still on it; only that I don't see any indication that there is. Sort of like you never say you're "cured" of cancer; you're only 'in remission'.

Turns out my friend is NOT using Comcast Web mail, but OUTLOOK!! Hello!; that's the source of the problem. I have relayed the problem with Outlook to him and suggested he switch to WLM or T-Bird. I haven't heard from him since then. Will keep you posted on what he does and whether or not it solves the problem.

[throoper]

No problem. I've had weeks like that.
Nice to know it's just Outlook not playing nice with others.
If you talk to him again and he likes Outlook, have him turn off composing using the Rich Text Format and just use HTML.

[DKTaber]

Originally Posted by throoper

. . .have him turn off composing using the Rich Text Format and just use HTML.

I don't understand the difference between RT and HTML; in fact, I thought they were the same. Even TB thinks they're the same, because when you're composing a message in it and click Options + Format, it mentions "Rich Text (HTML)" and "Plain and Rich (HTML) Text" as text choices. I.e., it equates RT and HTML.

So how are they different?

[throoper]

RTF in Outlook is an MS proprietary format. It's like HTML on steroids and works great for when you're sending things to other Outlook users.
Outlook is supposed to send in regular HTML by default if you use any formatting (RTF or HTML), but sometimes the RTF gets sent and if you don't have Outlook on the receiving end, the message has problems. You can get winmail.dat attachments, images don't appear as sent, and other things because the receiving program can't use the RTF.

http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/ou...001232996.aspx