[TerryNet]

Originally Posted by good grief

@ TerryNet,

By my post, I intended to convey that it isn't only Metro apps which can be installed and run on Windows 8, and therefore there are still choices on apps/programmes which can be used.

That's what I awkwardly tried to convey also. Thanks.

[aka Brett]

So in essence any metro apps are purely up to MS as to what is available ...and also whether free or how much it will cost.
This is a pretty tight control of the new desktop..."Here is what you can have and will like it"
Granted it wont interfere with the everyday non MS apps, it is a strict control however of this new desktop...While not a deal breaker it is a disappointment.
Perhaps they are afraid someone will create a metro app without the highly colorful tile theme..or perhaps they are reserving tamer colors for the future......Sorry FF but orange has already been reserved for future use

[davehc]

I am not a lawyer. In fact, the legalise ties me in knots. But I do believe, when I read the officialdom on Metro, that TEch republic and others, are drawing a wrong conclusion. As I read authorative, relative pages, I understand that Metro apps can be written, and offered to the public, from any source. The difference appears to be that if you submit the source to Microsoft, they can approve it and, with your permission, include it in the "Store" and promote it - a big "perk" with their immense resources.. Nothing prevents you from offering it outside of the store, however.
As I said, I have difficulty trying to untangle legalese, but that is how I read it here:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr.../hh694058.aspx

It also seems to have some support for my view here:


http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr.../hh974576.aspx

In the event, I believe Microsoft may have to reword the whole contract, as they have now been required to drop the term "Metro". Any decent lawyer will quickly weave a web around that one!

[good grief]

I think also, as I was reading yesterday, the intention with the Metro apps or whatever they will now be called, is to improve security measures, as explained here:

http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/sec...-security/8269

Again, the choices aren't limited to the new apps alone, as the SmartScreen filter can be turned on and off. If the information provided in this article is correct (someone with more knowledge than me may be able to confirm or refute that), then it seems to me that the new way of approaching apps/programmes is a significant improvement security-wise.

Looking at it in this light, it seems to be similar to having a Warrant of Fitness (don't know what it's called in the States or elsewhere, but I mean a certificate of road-worthiness) for your car, to ensure the safety of others.

[jeffmsp]

I like to complain about MS alot. But after trying out the win8 OS for a while on an old P4 with little RAM or processing power I have to admit i was a bit impressed. I hooked up a usb touchbox and was even happier.

Im no MS guru but without reading a single guide I was able to do anything I needed to with setting up a network connection, sharing some files on a domain, installing 3rd party software etc. seems as easy as winxp or 7, though I do remember having to launch some things from the run command as I could not find them in a quick manner. The compatibility mode seems to have been enhanced as some ancient programs my office used from the 90s installed and ran OK. These same programs I cannot get to run properly in win7 for the life of me.

I am assuming for gamers having an OS which takes up less resources should be a plus.

pretty sure the main focus for the OS is to have improved usability for tablets which are lightweight as far as hardware goes and considering I was running it on hardware that is worse than your average tablet it seemed pretty stable and fun to use.

but to agree with what others have said, its nice, but unless you are buying a new pc/tablet/laptop with the OS included there is no real reason to upgrade from win7 at this point IMO. Things may change when win7 stops getting updates, newer directx etc. but for now and the foreseeable future im happy with 7.

[Compiler]

aka Brett, don't you have a spare drive to throw Windows 8 onto?

For anyone who wants to try it out (ON A SPARE computer or drive) go here: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/w...elease-preview

In case you miss it on the screen the Product Key: TK8TP-9JN6P-7X7WW-RFFTV-B7QPF

You can use it until Jan of 2013.

The final version of Windows 8 desktop looks bad... while it looks fine in the preview version.

There are lots of things to LIKE about Windows 8. But the two UIs are jarring... they don't belong together.
I think its stupid when the fanboys says "People don't Windows 8 because of change" - no that is not it. For the majority, improvements are already good. Look at how many of us are using MIXed OSes in our lives? Am I complaining about my Android phone or iPad tablet being used with my Windows 7 computers? Who here or knows anyone who is having trouble dealing with owning A/I/W/M systems? (Android/iOS/Windows/Mac) Anyone?

The problem with Win8 is that nothing has been changed for the better. The BS reason "not many people are using the Start menu" - is plain stupid. So then they make a START SCREEN that they want you to use a LOT?! The Start Menu holds everything... we pin the most used items on our taskbar or desktop. With Windows 8, your whole screen is a start-menu(screen - it even says "start") with mostly useless live tiles. Why are they useless?

Unless you are on your start screen, you can't see the tiles. Its a launcher... that is to be covered up by fulls-screen apps?! Imagine trying to troubleshoot something in METRO while the info is in a browser?

There are many design NO-NOs with having the desktop/Metro setup... and that is why Windows 8 sucks. I've already told my clients to NOT BUY Windows 8. I don't know anyone personally who has spent 10 minutes with Win8... who want it. I've been using Windows7 as my PRIMARY OS since it was RC, months before RTM.

I understand WHY Microsoft is making Metro their primary interface... it makes sense. MS is so very late to the tablet game, WindowsOS is very rapidly becoming irrelevant to most people (Yes, the Windows market can collapse) as more of us realize we DON'T NEED microsoft. Remember A/i/W/M above? (I'll rename it AWiM - its smoother). I can enjoy the web on my 10" iPad as much as my 24" LCD Win7... other than typing out a lot of stuff. I can relax, use it anywhere in my home... the way I CANNOT with a notebook or desktop. (Yes, this means the toilet - which even Steve Jobs commented on). Most computer users NEVER understood the PC OS... they just need a browser and access to email and IM, maybe a word processor. Notice how MS-Office today is now $125 compared to $350+? Why? Open Office is free... but the need for MSOffice is also going down... other than business in the USA.
Game consoles, including the XBOX kills the PC as a gaming system... most games are for consoles. So, think about this... "Why do I need a Microsoft Windows Computer for?" Can Android or iOs or MacOs or even Liunx do the things you need? If the answer is yes... Windows goes bye bye. if you are a TECHIE person, then Windows8 is below your skill level... Linux becomes far more attractive. (Again, gaming is no longer important) Linux is free. So, Microsoft is targeting the typical "idiot" user with a UI that is easy, simple... and that they can control. The end goal is: Kill Windows on their terms. Windows 8 is supposed to be the last "Windows OS"... take that to the bank. So for the novice "idiot" the notebook, the tablet and phone with Win8/metro is the same and such customers will love it. Maybe it will work, maybe not. I'll simply go Linux/Android. I understand WHY MS needs to do it... I don't like it and I don't have to go along.


Why Windows 8 sucks?
- Its ugly... its so 1980s... even in desktop, the UI of AERO is gone... its now ugly flat mono color UI elements.
- Making change for sake of change is stupid. Its still a fight to click on the HIDDEN start button or the charms.
- "We took out the Start button" - NO THEY DIDN'T, they HID the damn thing. Now its a much smaller target. Oh, you are supposed to go to Mouse then keyboard then mouse? (hence, ITS BLOODY STUPID) Imagine you're in desktop and you have to launch something that is not pinned to your task bar or its in Metro... you have to let go of your mouse to press Windows Key to get to metro OR dig-around for the start button or dig around for the metro-task switcher if it applies.

- Yep, Tasks in metro don't show up at all unless you hit the charm, the Desktop programs only show when you are on the desktop. What idiot came up with this crap?! Worse, are the idiots who approve this!

- They force you to use Metro... it is inter-twined... its strong arm-tactics. yes, many of us know that YOU can install 3rd party tools to add a Start Menu (Classic / XP or Win7) - but MOST PEOPLE won't know it... and its a hack job. During the install on Win8, a choice is all that is needed.

How I would have done this (I talked about this with someone else and its what we came up up). The Metro interface would be in the Start Menu (left side) and look like WP7... your mouse wheel would go up and down... making more sense. The right-side menu would look the same as Windows7. Hitting ALL PROGRAMS would be old Win7 style we all know. When you run a METRO APP, it would run on top of the desktop (in a window) and the normal Win7 UI close button would work. Those same apps would be FULL screen on tablets and phones.

The skin of Win8 should look like the RP version... clean, not boring or ugly that we see today.

Simple solution that would have made most people happy.

To buy Windows 8, even to NOT use it - Microsoft can check that as a GOOD SALE.
By not buying or using Windows 8, we punish Microsoft... especially if we go to Linux or MacOS and never look back.

[aka Brett]

I have my drives a little tight on space ...I could come up with the space,but another issue I have is my ISP {satellite}
A big down load would make me crowd my cap....as well as get hit with the throttle...getting throttled on satellite is no fun.
At the moment it is about 15 percent faster than what I pay for...so I will be a good little boy..and let em keep the others throttled

W8 doesn't sound like it would benefit me...although extra security is always welcome....Right now my 7 is set up nice and easy for what I use it for...W8 would only extra navigation for me from what I am gathering in this thread...Your post is very informative and confirms that W8 isnt going to have any advantages I want..so there is no need for me to jump on the cheap upgrade price that has been announced....A large part of why I created this thread

[Compiler]

2.5GB is not so large LinuxMint is only 780~870MB depending on version you choose.

Well, if Windows8 was done RIGHT (no METRO or Options to NOT use it) - then it would be a good replacement (not upgrade) for Windows7. Rather than an AVOID OS...

Replacement = get it when you buy a new PC / do a clean install.
Upgrade = Makes major improvements over a previous version.

Windows98 and 7 were Must-haves. WinXP wasn't a must-have because Win98 market share and stability was high. I didn't go to XP until 2004. (XP ran games and software faster than Win98 - my own tests)

Satellite? Guess you're out in the boonies...

[aka Brett]

Looks like I will continue to run 7 and skip over 8...unless I buy a new pc later on that has 8 ..then will just deal with it for a while or put 7 on it if need be or go linux
I tried mint a year or two ago...{as it has been mentioned alot}...not bad at all,looked good and everything worked
I was playing with Studio Ubuntu in the past as well...also looked good and everything worked.
Also no hassle with being able to play certain media types.
I would probably choose one of them over 8 {cant say for sure as I havent used 8}...but IMO I would happier with it for common usage and still have two windows PCs for instances where one has to have windows

[ETech7]

That it's not available yet.

[TerryNet]

unless I buy a new pc later on that has 8 ..then will just deal with it for a while or put 7 on it if need be or go linux

Great! That gives me an opening to jump in here again.

I've been thinking about the (high) probability that I will want a new PC sometime in the next three years (before the hoped for fix for "Vista II"). Makes sense to wait and get the new hardware designs, no matter what form factor (laptop, tablet, ...) I decide on but the Secure Boot has me concerned.

My understanding is that any PC sold with Windows 8 will have to have the new UEFI (BIOS replacement) with Secure Boot enabled. It is also my understanding that some UEFIs will include an option to disable Secure Boot. With Secure Boot disabled it should be just as easy as now to boot an older Windows, the next Windows, a Linux distribution or any "rescue" or partitioning disk. With Secure Boot enabled I would have to hope that my desired boot was "blessed" by Microsoft or the OEM, or do some complex messing with a "Certificate" and "keys" (and I'm not sure that's even possible post development stage).

So, my thinking is that I will want to know before purchasing if Secure Boot can be disabled. I wonder how easy that will be to discover.

Dell has a list of their computers that can be bought now and later upgraded to Windows 8. They advise to disable Secure Boot before the upgrade (apparently in case the graphics card is locked out by Secure Boot). But neither they nor HP nor Acer yet say anything about UEFI or Secure Boot w.r.t. their new offerings beginning later this year.

Comments? Corrections? Advice (other than to buy now )?

[aka Brett]

Originally Posted by TerryNet

Great! That gives me an opening to jump in here again.

I've been thinking about the (high) probability that I will want a new PC sometime in the next three years (before the hoped for fix for "Vista II"). Makes sense to wait and get the new hardware designs, no matter what form factor (laptop, tablet, ...) I decide on but the Secure Boot has me concerned.

My understanding is that any PC sold with Windows 8 will have to have the new UEFI (BIOS replacement) with Secure Boot enabled. It is also my understanding that some UEFIs will include an option to disable Secure Boot. With Secure Boot disabled it should be just as easy as now to boot an older Windows, the next Windows, a Linux distribution or any "rescue" or partitioning disk. With Secure Boot enabled I would have to hope that my desired boot was "blessed" by Microsoft or the OEM, or do some complex messing with a "Certificate" and "keys" (and I'm not sure that's even possible post development stage).

So, my thinking is that I will want to know before purchasing if Secure Boot can be disabled. I wonder how easy that will be to discover.

Dell has a list of their computers that can be bought now and later upgraded to Windows 8. They advise to disable Secure Boot before the upgrade (apparently in case the graphics card is locked out by Secure Boot). But neither they nor HP nor Acer yet say anything about UEFI or Secure Boot w.r.t. their new offerings beginning later this year.

Comments? Corrections? Advice (other than to buy now )?

I am glad you jumped back in..this secure boot could be an actual problem..{not the usual whines we have when MS comes out with a new OS}

I am hoping that the ability to disable is available on all....if not I can see this being a major issue....a far larger issue than the actual OS itself {which is essentially just a matter of getting used to}

If it comes down to it...One can always build his own rig I suppose....but would be kinda hard to build ones own tablet or laptop.

[Compiler]

All this mess with Windows 8 and Secure Boot... I'm going Linux.

Never pay $100~150 to upgrade again. I will buy an extra copy of Win7 to last me a few years... I'm done with MS.

[ETech7]

Now it's more like $40...

[Compiler]

Where do you get this $40 figure from?