[DaveA]

I think that the AVERAGE user is ABOVE your thinking.
We had these same issues when XP first came out and don't upgrade keep 98SE [smile], now all we hear is that XP will survive forever.

[Gswiss]

"I think that the AVERAGE user is ABOVE your thinking" is the type of statement a politician would make. You know very well that the average user is gullible because he is not aware of all the technical consequences and everything he loses by switching to Vista. Sure, you've got a ring instead of an hourglass and a nice looking clock on the desk and Aero (if you've got the power to support it). But it's not worth the price and the incompatibilities with your previous programs you have to buy again.

I did movie editing and subtitling with W2k-sp4. I found it more efficient than with XP on the same machine. What equipment do I have to buy TO DO THE SAME THING with Vista which will take up most of the resources I use for editing just to run? With new equipment and w2k or xp, I'll get better performance on my editing. In this case, I'll be using my dollars better. I'll switch to Vista in 3 or 4 years after everybody else has lost sweat and money on it.

Thank goodness there's the Web to prevent people from turning into sheep. There wouldn't be that many sites on the Web on how to switch to xp if Vista were really that attractive.

On top of that, people are fed up playing Quality Control for Microsoft. Remember WIndows ME? All gurus and salesmen (of course) said it was tremendous when it was released until we found out it was the worst designed Windows in the series. And what about the 7 or 9 SP's for NT4, including the SP designed to repair all the damages caused by the previous one !!! Imagine Boeing releasing a plane which only flies properly after 40 crashes with its passengers. It reminds of the joke : "If Bill Gates built cars..."

Furthermore, most people don't know that Vista is geared towards hybrid disks which are not that wide-spread on the market yet.

[jmwills]

I guess I should cancel that order for the new Toyota Prius since I will not be able to tune the carb on it!!

[Gswiss]

Originally Posted by DaveA

all we hear is that XP will survive forever.

Microsoft free support for xp will end some time in 2009. Under pressure, it extended support, at a price, till 2014!! However, with all the know-how and forums around, if one runs into a problem, there should be a solution from fellow users during all that time. Hopefully, by 2009 (is it 7 or 8 years after release ?), Microsoft will have ironed out its problems with XP. We'll see what SP we'll have in 2014 for Vista, SP5 or SP6?

[Rich-M]

I have two perfectly functioning Vista pc's I built, with absolutely no issues that boot a lot faster than XP,shut down in half the time of Vista, burn dvd's with native software XP cannot do, test your ram internally if you have any questions and Windows Mail has the best junk mail filter on the market. The gui is fresh, the graphics blow away XP's graphics as native Dx10 really comes through. The fully integrated search is a plus for all users and Vista's new WDDM (Windows Display Driver Model), which runs outside of kernel mode and, as a result, works to prevent display driver failures from bringing down the entire system.Vista includes a new volume mixer tool that allowed us to control independently the volume of Windows' system sounds and those of individual open applications. This will come in handy as the number of sound-producing applications on one's system continues to multiply.
Let's also look at speech recognition software built into Vista that will enable many less privileged folks to utilize Windows without adding all kinds of sometimes functioning 3rd party programs.
IE7 in Vista has an additional protection mode, that prevents applications from interfacing with the browser in any way other than through a temporary folder.
We also can appreciate the changes Microsoft has made in Vista's Task Manager, which now sports a Services tab and offers up more information in its Processes tab, including the command-line item with which each process is associated and a brief description of each process. And the overall additional diagnostics features are vastly improved from XP.
You can actually produce custom performance charts from inside the OS without relying on 3rd party programs for cpu and other hardware.
System Configuration, which does a great job of concentrating important system facilities and options into a very slim tool.
From it we could opt to restart in a diagnostic or selective mode. In the latter mode, we could limit the services and startup items that launched to, for example, troubleshoot an issue. We could also configure an array of boot options, quickly disable particular services and view only non-Microsoft services, view and disable startup programs, and launch every diagnostic or setup tool in Vista.
I just learned here on this forum about "ready boost", a tool that allows Vista to make use of flash memory from sources such as USB drives, and should offer a performance boost to memory-poor machines.
As I said before I am tired of inexperienced users listening to the rantings of others. Users who don't follow the development or even begin to understand the reasoning behind new technology but simply boot up a machine and then "take snapshots" and react.
We all complain about the ram limitations of 32 bit systems and have to know part of the other reason for the development of Vista is to further advance the 64 bit application which is definitely the wave of the future as for hardware capability. As software has to catch up someday, these 64 bit machines, and Vista offers worlds of difference to a 64 bit operation, will began to so outpace XP, that someday we will look back fondly at it much as we do other antiques, and by then Vista too will be an antique because technology involves lifting ones head out of the sand and moving forward. "If it aint broke don't fix it" is really for automobile repair and actually should have nothing to do with computer strategy so I suggest Gswiss get with the program and go set up a Vista machine and "feel the power". Break away from the history laden Microsoft bashers who never see any difference between anything that happens and thus will see a few issues as major mountains of problems, as something a service pack will fix...and each successive OS the same problem the last one was but a bit more!

[Tuppence2]

I, too, am very happy with the Vista Home Premium system that came with my new computer. It's ironic, I didn't want XP when I used W2K, found XP perfectly acceptable; then didn't want Vista after using XP. Now I have Vista, I find it no problem at all. It's "nippy", fast to load and shutdown; it's accepted any device I've attached to it, including an external hard drive. I was astonished at the ease with which this took place, because I'd been led to expect problems. It's happy with my digital camera, printer, etc., etc.

Are people finding problems upgrading or installing over an existing system? I was informed by my local,reputable, computer shop that Microsoft will bring out a service pack for Vista in the new year. May I ask whether I would need to instal it if I have no problems?

Penny

[Rich-M]

Originally Posted by Tuppence2

I, too, am very happy with the Vista Home Premium system that came with my new computer. It's ironic, I didn't want XP when I used W2K, found XP perfectly acceptable; then didn't want Vista after using XP. Now I have Vista, I find it no problem at all. It's "nippy", fast to load and shutdown; it's accepted any device I've attached to it, including an external hard drive. I was astonished at the ease with which this took place, because I'd been led to expect problems. It's happy with my digital camera, printer, etc., etc.

Are people finding problems upgrading or installing over an existing system? I was informed by my local,reputable, computer shop that Microsoft will bring out a service pack for Vista in the new year. May I ask whether I would need to instal it if I have no problems?

Penny

First of all when you install updates, you are installing or will have installed quite a bit of the service pack anyway and yes you need to install it. Do you need to be the first to install it, no you don't. It is perfectly permissable to wait for an "all clear" from the "naysayers" before installing it but remember Microsoft is on our side, and here they are the "good guy" so Windows Updates and SC's are a must!

[Tuppence2]

Thank you, Rich-M. I do keep up-to-date with Windows Update.

[williamrobinsonb]

rich-m has to work for the propaganda department of microsoft
or is a microsoft developer.
he is obviously willing to blindly overlook the obvious flaws in the os and instead chooses to bash the unsuspecting buyer.
tell me rich-m why microsoft who has the source to the xp api and there own pc immolation software is not backwards compatible to run programs microsoft wrote for xp
linux can do it in wine and they had to guess about much of the windows api.
and also why vista update crashes so many a pc,s

[williamrobinsonb]

Do you se the brainwashing

im happy
me to
im happy
im very happy

well you can talk about the future and be all glowie
but the fact remans that a system no mater how super it is
will always run slower with vista
boot times dont count because vista is not truly shutting down as in xp
it is just logging off its internal network and going into a modified standby mode
it gives the appearance of speedy benchmarks but is a total joke
the same process in xp takes twice as many resources in vista
the cpu is doing more to accomplish the same task
cpu having to do more is slower having doing more processing.
laptop battery is cut in half
networks are slowed
processes take longer to run
and the whole thing was so unstable that the os had to have redundant error checking activated on the backside internal network slowing it further.
the computer in vista has become a network of one and every device a network device.
every user a network user.
and you cant understand why peepul are having so much trouble with it
it must be the hardware,
it cant possibly be microsofts brand new shiny os of the future.
if you believe that than you need more help than I or anyone else on this foram can give you.

[Rich-M]

Originally Posted by williamrobinsonb

rich-m has to work for the propaganda department of microsoft
or is a microsoft developer.
he is obviously willing to blindly overlook the obvious flaws in the os and instead chooses to bash the unsuspecting buyer.
tell me rich-m why microsoft who has the source to the xp api and there own pc immolation software is not backwards compatible to run programs microsoft wrote for xp
linux can do it in wine and they had to guess about much of the windows api.
and also why vista update crashes so many a pc,s

I have old MS programs that work in Vista, namely Ms Works 4.5 and Office 2000, what's the problem.
I don't work for Microsoft and of course there are some flaws and problems, but at the moment none of them have affected me. Pc's that Updates have crashed, well maybe some folks need to learn how to build and pair hardware better, price isn't everything you know.

[crjdriver]

Gee I have been running vista since RTM in Dec 06 without one single problem.
Yeah it must be a real terrible os.

BTW I just finished the 20th build I have done with a vista install; I have never seen a crash, blue screen, etc.

[williamrobinsonb]

"maybe some folks need to learn how to build and pair hardware better?"

If xp can find it and make it work, and work well

and they have all the code and drivers for xp

they could and should include that code and make it work in vista

but instead what did they do

They choose to bloat the system with a hidden backside network that drags everything down

hardware and software

some of your old programs still work in vista but they work slower

you can hardly run1/2 the programs simultaneously that xp can run

that is a downgrade of performance of 1/2

you run half as fast if not slower that is another 1/2 downgrade of performance

Half the programs at half as fast

you can hardly run one tenth of the programs that you can run in xp in vista

that is a downgrade of 90%

if you run window blinds on top of xp for eye candy you can still outperform vista

if you run a server on xp with window blinds running you still outperform vista

battery life is 1/2 in vista of what you get in xp.

all wile running 100% vista approved hardware

If you bought a new car that went half as fast and took twice the gas at four times the price because your dealer convinced you to upgrade to the next model in the series you would be rightfully angry knowing that you had ben taken advantage of.

Ladies and gentlemen I Give You Vista

Dont blame Bill gates he hasn't ben in charge since befor the first rollout of xp

[mrrb]

>>>>>>>>>>>>I just learned here on this forum about "ready boost", a tool that allows Vista to make use of flash memory from sources such as USB drives, and should offer a performance boost to memory-poor machines.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


Rich-M

Did it ever occur to you why M$ created readyboost .

...and no it was not because it is cool


This is a classic of "the emperor has no clothes fable".

I work with (a pain) 2 Vista Machines in my business personally and have used a few others with the high end versions.

What I can do with P4-M 1.8 GHz - L2 512 KB - RAM 256 MB - HD 40 GB - CD-RW / DVD - Mdm 56 Kbps - LAN EN, Fast EN - Win XP Pro - 15" TFT - 470048-514

runs circles around my hp Laptop with 1 gig ram, AMD Turion 64 X2 TL-64 2.2GHz 240GB Serial ATA 5400 rpm, nVIDIA GeForce Go 6150 559MB DDR2 SDRAM Shared Windows Vista Home Premium


Listen
i am all for progress when it works, but theoretical progress i leave that for the dreamers and the beta testers.

When I upgrade I want and deserve a system that performs better than my previous system with equal or slightly more resources required for such an outcome that can be seen and experienced.

...and don't sell me something that will barely run unless I spend a third more to get it there. Let me know it take 1500 upfront instead of telling me it will run at $700.

That is disceptive. Tell me it will cost me $1500 and then it's up to me to decide.

Microsoft may have had fewer sales but might have had a great deal more happy customer with vista. In the long run everyone then wins.

As it stand they now have to deliver yet another product- downgrade cds.

When will they learn?

Yes, with Vista it takes nearly double resources to achieve the performance that I have enjoyed with my previous Os and you call that progress.

Yes Vista has got to go back to the drawing board for at least another 2 years. Meanwhile give me back my XP without penalty or charge.

K

[Rich-M]

Originally Posted by williamrobinsonb

"maybe some folks need to learn how to build and pair hardware better?"

If xp can find it and make it work, and work well

and they have all the code and drivers for xp

they could and should include that code and make it work in vista

but instead what did they do

They choose to bloat the system with a hidden backside network that drags everything down

hardware and software

some of your old programs still work in vista but they work slower

you can hardly run1/2 the programs simultaneously that xp can run

that is a downgrade of performance of 1/2

you run half as fast if not slower that is another 1/2 downgrade of performance

Half the programs at half as fast

you can hardly run one tenth of the programs that you can run in xp in vista

that is a downgrade of 90%

if you run window blinds on top of xp for eye candy you can still outperform vista

if you run a server on xp with window blinds running you still outperform vista

battery life is 1/2 in vista of what you get in xp.

all wile running 100% vista approved hardware

If you bought a new car that went half as fast and took twice the gas at four times the price because your dealer convinced you to upgrade to the next model in the series you would be rightfully angry knowing that you had ben taken advantage of.

Ladies and gentlemen I Give You Vista

Dont blame Bill gates he hasn't ben in charge since befor the first rollout of xp

What on earth is your problem?
I have some hardware I had to use XP drivers for as the Vista drivers were NG and they worked fine namely HP printer drivers.
There are no programs that run slower in Vista I have seen in fact quote the opposite.
1/10 of the programs run in Vista that will run in XP? Half the programs run half as fast?
This is crap and you need to start backing up some of these absurd statements.

The only programs I have found are old utilities such as Partition Magic, older versions of Acronis TI and DD, and a few graphics viewers. Apple owners know about updating their programs every time there is an OS change and that has to do with stability, something Windows owners were always spoiled with backwards compatibility that began to stop with XP. You cannot have a rock stable OS with ancient programs working as well, that is something it toook Ms years to learn that Apple always knew!