[Bob1940]

look I'll probably get hate mail but why
would you put a two stroke motor in a V8 motor car.

So why put Vista in a toy setup

Thats like putting XP in the original Commodore, yep I'm that
old probably as old as Gran God bless her.

Buy the lady a Computer that will do the job, give her a early Xmas present.
Won't be long and XP will be history so lets move along people.

Yes this is a Vista machine and Im loving it, but then it has the guts inside to run Vista.

[cakeman]

@compiler - Im with you. I had a 70 year old lady the other day running Vista on an HP. Her printer had gone permanently offline. Dug around some, found theres a hotfix for this issue.. oh, but wait, you're not allowed to download it, you've got to email Microsoft, and they'll respond with a link and a password to the file.. or you can wait till SP1 is released sometime in 2008. Nice.

Its slow and irritating. UAC is the worst idea yet.. as soon as I connected a Vista system to our domain, I couldnt even delete a damn shortcut from the start menu without getting our Domain Admin to enter his password.

@bob1940 - great idea bob. Every person who buys a new computer should be required to spend over a grand for a good mid-high range system so they can send an email every week or two and play some card games... without it taking forever. I mean hey, who doesnt have a grand or more just lying around..

HP/Dell and all arent doing themselves any favours by loading these things with Vista.. shouldve saved it for the higher end systems.

Brett

[Compiler]

Originally Posted by katabby

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...535&CatId=2627 should of got your friend this

Okay... early in the original post. I stated that it was 8:30pm, stores close at 9:00pm. She wanted a PC that night to replace the dead one.

If there was time, I would have built her something and it wouldn't have included a celeron CPU.

[cherry pie]

Whenever anyone asks me for advice to buy a new computer, two questions I ask, 1) What do you do with your computer? 2) how much are you willing to spend?

You can buy a 5000$ used car or a 100000$ brand new one. But don't expect them to perform the same or have the same facilities and cool stuff! Or... you can buy a pair of jeans for 40$ and another for 1000$ just coz it has a certain brand tag! In the end.... how much money do you have and what are you expecting from it. Exactly the same for Computers

So to compiler, my comment would be, why change the compuer in the first place? Is it just a matter of getting a new computer for the sake of it? If it was doing the solitaire games and email browsing with no issues (and I assume it does) then why change it? I think it's just a waste of money. I don't assume for this PC you would need any support from MS or HP

When my mom wanted a computer I gave her my old Pentium III desktop as she only uses it to check her email (which often she forgets the password for ) and type her researches and abstracts. and she's so happy with it

New tech is a yes yes. But for those who aren't ready for it, eventually Vista will become stable, HW & SW will definitely be 100% compatible, and by that time higher specs computers and other hardware will drop prices as well for sure. Then would be the good time to change to Vista.

I have a 1.83 GHz Centrino Core and a 1GB RAM, it terms of speed, it's performing very well.

[steveie85]

For all those computer tech's, XP will no longer be supported on Jan. 1 2009. Production is stoping in late June of '08. I am an Microsoft Certified Desktop Support Tech, working on getting Vista rating right now. I am running a Dell Inspiron 1501 that I had them make some mods to, such as 120GB hdd, Dell 1390 wireless and simple things. It came standard with 1GB ram, I have since put in a single 1GB and took one 512MB card out so it is running 1.5GB of ram and runs faster. It runs Vista Home Prem. with no problems. I disabled UAC, and the sidebar(although it looks pretty it is a memory drag). It runs great with no problems. The laptop has not slowed down because the browser caches get to full. Microsoft says 512MB is the minimum required to run but recommends at least 1GB. Remember folks some hardware is NOT compatible with Vista. All the computer techs I talk to like Vista but recommend disabling UAC and sidebar. Also I am running Norton Antivirus 2008, it runs great and has not given me any problems. As far as granny's computer, you just can't walk in to a place like staples or Best Buy and pick the first computer you see on the shelf. Some of those if not all are refurbished, second and you as a computer tech should know this, you have to look at the spec's on the computer. If one of there sales men sold you on it then bravo for him he pulled the wool over your eyes. I tell all my clients if you want an XP system then be prepared that as of 01/01/2009 you won't get any support for it and companies that sell products for XP will more then likely stop supporting there products. I recommend Vista highly. Take it from an MCDST Vista is not as bad as everyone thinks. You just need to have the right stuff. Don't get a motherboard with a built in video card, put an independent video card on. Put at least 1GB of ram in it and don't buy a cheap $40AMD/Intel CPU.

[Compiler]

Bob1940...

You also don't need a NASCAR to drive to the corner McDonalds to order a BigMac either.

Sorry, but its stupid to require SO MUCH more horse power to do the same things on another computer with less. Especially if you know anything about Commodore. AmigaOS 3.0 used less RAM and ran FASTER than AmigaOS 2.0 and 1.x! Even on my Amiga1000, I was running 3.0 with an 8 color desktop (I could have used 16 colors and have the same memory usage as 1.x and performance, but I wanted the speed)

BTW boys & girls, A 1986 Amiga 1000 can actually browse the internet (16 colors thou) with a browser... not that I would want to. heheh

For the avg user - before vista, a $400 512mb single core AMD64 would DO JUST FINE. It's STUPID to require 2~4 cores and 2-3GB of RAM to play solitare and read email! Typical vista PCs are 2gb, higher end off-shelf are 3gb - not 4 because THAT would open a whole new can of worms. (a) 64bit Windows driver issues, even more problematic (b) even slower performance... or if they went ahead and installed 4GB - they'd risk being sued by the typical consumer who don't understand how 32bit Windows works... "Hey! HP riped me off! I don't have access to all 4GB!" Of course those 3GB systems are not running optimal either since they are NOT running in proper dual channel memory!

With what I'm doing on my system, would choke on a typical 2GB vista setup... since 2GB is required for minimal multitasking.

I have the following running: Opera, Explorer(win), Photoshop, Dreamweaver, MS-Word, PaperPort, mediaplayer(classic - which rocks) playing a video, Acdsee and Nero(Burning software). Out of 2GB of RAM - I still have 1.35GB of RAM free and CPU usage is under 10%... wait while doing all of this, I've just unpacked a 103mb driver ZIP file (358 files/14 folders) in less time that it would take a 1GB vista PC to figure out how long it will take to unpack it... 23seconds on my lowly AMD x2 3800 (2.0Ghz) - when doing so, my CPU usage went up to 25%. Remember, it took vista about 2mins to unpack 2mb... sure it wasn't a dual core CPU... but 2mins!?

Progress is not a multi-core/multi-gigabyte computer to read email. We've been doing email and playing simple games even on horrible 486 PCs with 4mb of RAM on Windows3.1 (which isn't even an OS).

[Compiler]

Originally Posted by steveie85

For all those computer tech's, XP will no longer be supported on Jan. 1 2009. Production is stoping in late June of '08. I am an Microsoft Certified Desktop Support Tech, working on getting Vista rating right now.

I don't mean this to be personal or mean. But what you just said above is very incorrect, FUD and you need more training. When giving out specific WRONG info like the above can confuse the people we are trying to help! M$ only recently stopped all Win98 support (ie: no NEW patches or drivers) 2 years ago, long after XP came out. M$ is NOT killing support of XP 2 years after vista. This is common knowlege.

XP mainstream support ends on April 14, 2009. Extend support will last through to Aug 2014... Offical link below:

http://support.microsoft.com/lifecyc...6&y=12&C2=1173

What is extended support:
- Paid support
- Scurity update support at no additional cost
- Non-security related hotfix support requires a separate Extended Hotfix Support Agreement to be purchased (per-fix fees also apply)

XP isn't going away anytime fast.

I disabled UAC, and the sidebar(although it looks pretty it is a memory drag). It runs great with no problems.

okay... so once all the "features" are disabled, you're left with a DRM infested Windows NT 5.2?

As far as granny's computer, you just can't walk in to a place like staples or Best Buy and pick the first computer you see on the shelf. Some of those if not all are refurbished, second and you as a computer tech should know this, you have to look at the spec's on the computer.

*sigh* as already stated:
1 - closing time - limited choices for the budget.
2 - vista basic doesn't have the memory-sucking eye-candy... so while it wasn't the best choice, it was at that time. 512mb should have been enough to run SOLITARE and read email... it failed. With 1GB it still sucked.
3 - the PC was brand new. Its been almost a week, Granny says she is HAPPY... Her PC is running great, no lock ups and no extra work.

I tell all my clients if you want an XP system then be prepared that as of 01/01/2009 you won't get any support for it and companies that sell products for XP will more then likely stop supporting there products. I recommend Vista highly. Take it from an MCDST Vista is not as bad as everyone thinks.

You're clients are unlucky. But one of the reasons I still have my clients for 5 and 10+ years is that I NEVER sell them stuff for the sake of making a buck. They know I have saved them thousands of dollars and still got the job done. I don't know where you got the 1/1/09, you need to correct them on that. MCDST - sorry, funny stuff. "certified" trained techs... I won't go there.

You just need to have the right stuff. Don't get a motherboard with a built in video card, put an independent video card on. Put at least 1GB of ram in it and don't buy a cheap $40AMD/Intel CPU.

Hmm... (this is a guess) over 90% of PC sales are with IGP (onboard graphics). Intel is the leader in this market - not by quality or performance of course. AMD/ATI and Nvidia have FAR better onboard graphics. Faster rendering and sharper output. Many of the PCs I built and sold included lower end graphics cards. The newer ones I sell for NON-gamers include built-in graphics but only with DVI connectors... more than enough power for non-gamers and some games (2003 and older). Of course, intel still blows in this area.

1GB vista PCs still perform like 256 XP systems... vista needs at least 2GB to be usable.

[Compiler]

Originally Posted by cherry pie

Whenever anyone asks me for advice to buy a new computer, two questions I ask, 1) What do you do with your computer? 2) how much are you willing to spend?

So to compiler, my comment would be, why change the compuer in the first place? Is it just a matter of getting a new computer for the sake of it? If it was doing the solitaire games and email browsing with no issues (and I assume it does) then why change it? I think it's just a waste of money. I don't assume for this PC you would need any support from MS or HP

As stated.... her computer died, it was a 2001 HP... it was JUNK when she got it new. It wasn't worth repairing... and she wanted it something before the stores closed. She wanted something new... otherwise I could have gottern her a $200 refurb or pulled something together myself.

She is not related to me... not my granny. My 3yr old boy has his own P3 1000Mhz/512mb PC - with Windows98 on it (he's had it since he was 2) that runs faster than vista... PS: the P3 was a $3000 computer I built for a client around 1999, heheh.

Those two questions are standard and important ones. They do clash at times...

"okay, you want to do (A) - but you're only wanting to spend enough money to get (B) but it won't do (A) very well" or you get someone who spends a lot of money with little in return. IE: Paying $1200+ for an HP with a Pentium D/4 CPU and a GF 5700Le video card when I've offered to build them a REAL RIG with actual gaming abilities for $800 (AMD64 X2 with a GF6800 card) that would totally own it.... oh well...

[Compiler]

Here is the simple thing that makes vista suck, IMHO....

1 - What DOES it DO that XP can't do? DX10 is the only thing in my book, and that has nothing to do with XP, rather than M$ wanting people to buy vista to get DX10.

2 - People say, its growing pains - like Win3 > Win95 (that hurt a lot) and Win98 > XP (not so bad, Win2000/NT has been around a long time). vista is NT 5.2, its a modifed XP, nothing more. There shouldn't be growing pains...

3 - the DRM is horrible... it sucks the performance right out of the box.

Seriously, other than a prettier (opinion) GUI and some flashy looks... what DOES IT DO that XP can't? It takes 10 minutes to make XP look and feel like Vista. I have a 500k program that'll change my start menu to vista... Yeah, okay - the SEARCH field there and how it works is cool... but as I just said, I could run it on XP... 500k,tiny little module. backgrounds? you can get them anywhere... even put the visa backgrounds on Xp.

Use XP power toys to enhance the Task Switcher... Its not in 3D, but works pretty good. transparancy - not a hard trick... nvidia XP drivers gives a more useful transparancy effects, IMHO.

Once all the security functions (UAC) and memory/CPU sucking effects are turned off - you're left with... a DRMed to death Windows XP.

[Deazy]

Originally Posted by Satsumomo

I used Vista Premium for a whole day today, and it was a terrible experience. Yes, everything looks beautiful, but as stated, everything takes longer to do.

Not to mention the 4 authorization dialogs required just to create a folder... and a security pop-up appearing half-way during a DVD movie and making it crash. "We need your authorization to view this DVD"...

When I went from Windows 98 to XP, I loved it. I expected the same from Vista, but it hasn't been like this.

Yeah the security is a bit much. I does look nice but mine doesnt go slow. You disable like half the junk they have put on it and hey presto

[steveie85]

I have my sidebar turned off by choice now. It worked just fine with sidebar on but it took up room on the screen that I wanted. Sorry I do apologize, your right, extended service is available till 2014, but I got just one question, when people buy an XP system from them do you throw in the extended support stuff for free? Not many people I know when they buy there computers with XP buy the extra support stuff. I know this is true, my dad works in a factory and I bought a business that has built a lot of computers for people there and none of them have the extended support. As far as me being an MCDST it means I get more info quicker then you can, your just mad because I get the info and have more access to Microsoft then you do. If you like Mac's so much like you indicated in your first post and dislike Windows then why don't you just stop selling windows and start selling Mac's!! So if you had a limited budget then why the hell are you complaining that it sucks? You haven't ran it on a system that is truly built for Vista. I have several options for people to choose from for Vista computers and it cost no more to change it and have XP installed. Personally if I am getting a custom built system from someone who is a computer tech then why would I need the extended support? Obviously I am going to take my computer back to them. Stop your whining and suck it up princess!! None of what you said in your first post is factually true!! Your mad because we are all calling you on it.

[simpswr]

[Compiler]

That horse isn't dead enough hey, its still moving... theres' a chance!

[Bob1940]

Just knew a can of worms would open up.

PS Has Gran got a new or upgraded computer yet.
For heavens sake don't think I'm having a go at you, at 70 she deserves whatever
you can give her.

Yep Ive had the Ping Pong Tennis Game console then Commodore, Upgrade to 3mb Windows ram with Space Invaders, Windows, 98, Me Xp now Vista so I feel I have some experience. Nope not a ubeaut expert, just straight down the line

I was trying to help a store owner yesterday, cant find my assessories he tells me and shows me a ubeaut Printer, yep it'll work they told him, problem only 1.5gb drive, 71mbs left. Computer looks older than Gran and me, no disrespect .

Goes back to "Courses for Horses". Finally found Assessories and left while it was defragging. It had managed 10% after 30minutes.

Message, gear not up to the task, the system will fail and business records will be lost.

Both my Computers, one running XP (to save further upgrades) and the second running
Vista. Both these machines were made up to suit the task.

Machines bought over the Counter seem to have model after model coming out then you see them dumped in fire sales. These machines have their own disk setups so basically anything that comes with them is useless in some other Computer. So in affect its a controlling move on the part of the makers.

Actually I believe you dont even own Windows XP Vista, in a sense your only paid to hire
it, hence the controlling Serial numbers etc.

Its okay to say but my old system is doing this that and the other. Problem is when the Grandkids come in and can't work your Computer. hmmmm. Or you start dealing with firms that have upgraded and your still in the Back Blocks.

You must move on, Gran knows this, so do I, she wants to participate with her peers,
I talk/video with my family thousands of Ks away. Only thing thats that interferes with this at times is useless communications, yep blame it on Sunspots I suppose.

I don't know where all these slow problems with Vista are coming from, think people need to shut down most of the useless programs that start at start up. Most of us dont need them until certain times so why run them.

I know this is irrevelant to our forum but did you know Australia is having its worst drought in 100years.
Computers and rapid means of contacts with familys will be lifesavers for own farmers.
Vista/XP will be a part of saving Farmers lives. (depression)

reagards from down under

[simpswr]

Originally Posted by Compiler

That horse isn't dead enough hey, its still moving... theres' a chance!

Keep dreamin'