[RobLinux]

Have a look at Virtual Box. http://www.virtualbox.org/ make sure you check the notes (for instance if yo u have a recent "tickless" kernel (CONFIG_NO_HZ=y) you need to use a kernel boot parameter). Claims you can install Win9x, XP, and even Vista into it, like VMware. Not tried it yet, but I run Vista less & less (despite it being the best M$ OS to date IMO), and the recommendation came from folk using it to test bleeding edge kernels.

[RobLinux]

Some Extrasa for the Compiler collection

http://www.osweekly.com/index.php?op...701&Itemid=449
Bit extreme those Dutch consumer groups!

And another "What Intel giveth, Microsoft taketh away" http://exo-blog.blogspot.com/2007/09...keth-away.html
There's the proof of bloat & sluggery

[Compiler]

Originally Posted by steveie85

Sure it is loged on your computer what you did. Its called the cache!! Wow you figured what that is yay compiler!! We are proud of you!! That info you are talking about is only sent if people like you who don't care...

? ? ? Have no idea what you're talking about.

[Gulo Luseus]

Vista vs XP..... XP vs win 98 (SE?)......98se vs 98..... 98 vs 95. etc. Every time anew OS comes out, there are hardware issues, software issues, bugs, crashes, and a general feeling of dissatisfaction. Who, in honesty, can say they didnt think XP was better than 98 ( or 2000 for a lot of us), and stubbornly held out, whilst whinging about drivers and support? sorry, bur every time this happens. I kept 2000 for a good year after XP, until I had to make the change because half the software I used wasnt supported. This time I embraced Vista openly. although I still kept XP.. and I like it. Its a new system, there will be problems.
The moral is, if you dont like it, dont use it, its that simple.
Oh, and when XP came out, Iremeber every new computer had it on, couldnt get 98 or 2000 for love nor money as it was a "redundant sytem". Have a look in the archives, find the posts from when XP cane out, and do a cut'n'paste..... works just as well as anything else here !!

<The tongue and the cheek are firmly connected>

[caraewilton]

Just feel like having my two cents say here. Well I deserve it, I have read all 109 posts.

I have a new computer. It is a dell and as mentioned, they offer both xp and vista. After much deliberation I have loaded vista business. Really concerned as I have heard a lot of bad stuff about the OS, but eventually go with Vista as it is the future so may as well learn now. Vista business does not have all the bells and whisltes that premium and unltermate offer, but it has what I need.

So I pull the computer out the box and turn on. All is great. I am pleased to note that the only additional software loaded is roxio. I ditch the McAffee security centre disk and load avast antivirus. Having used windows defender on previous xp laptop, decide to keep that running. Okay basic security in place.

Log onto the net, and download updates. Restart machine. Roxio is a little unhappy but follow the links and update roxio software. All is now running very smoothly

Try to create a folder, and get these fascinating permission things. Little annoying so I open up help, and have that disabbled in a jiffy.

Scanner not working, however the thing was originally designed for windows 95, so can I really moan?

Printer is a little unhappy, but it is an hp business inkjet 2300, cost the same as a new computer and is the worst piece of junk I have ever bought, nothing working properly even on xp, so not going to blame vista for its issues. But I follow the various links and stuff and within about 20 minutes I have the stupid thing working on a psl 5 driver.

I load all my software, including office 2003, corel draw ver 11, the gimp, adobe and so forth. All of this is older software, but all works well.

Plug in my external dvd writer and hard drive. Stressing a little as these are important peripherals that I need to work. Plug in the usb's and wolla, working. Infact they took less time to load then xp.

Play around for a couple of hours and decide the sidebar thing has to go. Disable that in a matter of seconds. Now I am very happy

It took me one evening to get everything running. I spent days when I first moved to xp from win 98se.

So here we have it. I bought a laptop which is a mean little machine in the positive sense. It has 2 gigs of ram, centrino duo processor 1.8, 120gig hard drive and 512mb shared graphics card. Not bad for a laptop. I then did a little research and chose the version of vista which most serves my needs.

From the average joe side of things, this has been the easiest pc to set up. I am happy with the performance.

For the person who is going to say, yes but with those specs, xp would have soared. I say of course, but imagine how fast dos would work on this machine. It is not the point though is it?

From my side. Has ms provided an os that is easy to use, up to date and capable of handling multimedia requirements. The answer is yes

Is vista all that was promised to be. Not entirelly but once the service packs start coming, I am sure it will prove to be a good os.

As for the hardware incompatabilities. I have a state of the art okidata lazer printer which would not run on xp, without performing some pretty risky changes to .dll files, which then fooled xp into thinking the printer should work. In an effort to get that printer to work, I crashed xp twice. All I am saying, drivers are always an issue when a new OS is released. We have just forgotten, because xp has been around for so long now.

Security. Well it is always a debatable topic. No matter what you do, there will always be somebody who finds a way through. So do what you can, make backups and hope for the best

Everyone to their own. There are choices but you pay for what you get. Mac is fantastic, but it is expensive. If that is what you want, then save up and buy. Linex is stable, nobody is stopping you from installing ubuntu. At the end of the day, people need to look at what they need and then make the choice accordingly.

[katabby]

well put
hopefully that can end this topic and we can finally send the old grey mare to the glue factory.

[RobLinux]

Aw come on.... you can't stop the flogging http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.ph...img&imgid=3385

So part of the Vista enhancements got turned off as "annoying", yet they are actually a reason to use it. So that's hardly successful software design. I think I prefer the way the "Start" menu operates, unfortunately M$ overload the prominent menus with their stuff, which causes clutter. It's much nicer once you've deleted all the duplicated stuff. I prefer Vista to XP, and put up with the rough edges, which are mostly general Windows issues.

"Vista's main benefit to the cult is that it makes members realize how much they liked XP." http://www.internetnews.com/commenta...le.php/3713646

Compiler's not alone in his frustrations.

[steveie85]

Your right Rob. Some people just don't like Vista for one reason or another. These are probably the same people who didn't like '98(se), 2000, ME and XP and whined about SP2 for XP. So I say lets just kinda ignore them for now until they use Vista on a daily basis.

[Compiler]

Yet you still can't point to actual features or abilities of Vista over XP. There is a big difference between Win98 > WinXP (Nobody compares WinME to anything) Vista is not a completely different OS yet its problematic. When it runs good for some people - fine, they are the lucky ones.

It still comes down to this: A OS shouldn't require a multi-core, multi-Gigabyte system to play SOLITARE which is included WITH the OS!! Your choice to ignore problems doesn't help anyone.

Other interesting links of vista issues:
About how slow vista is to XP: http://blog.wired.com/monkeybites/20...s-xp-serv.html

Vista DRM: http://blog.wired.com/monkeybites/20...l#previouspost

Vista "Does everyting prettier than XP... because it does it slower".

[steveie85]

Lets see, I have built 18 systems running Vista(of course by customer choice), and not one of them has come back for a downgrade to XP. While yes 2 did come back, they were for virus/malware issues, NOT OS issues. So lets do some math 18 systems built, 18 systems with no complaits = 100% satisfaction and 100% reliability!!

[RobLinux]

Hey compiler, there are new Vista featurs, they're just a bit hard to remember. Browser almost as good as Firefox, Aero, shrinking volumes, and your Windows Experience all as an easy to boast single number. I even get a link to Dell (box supplier) should I feel need to "boost" my Windows experience.

What more could you want? Advanced files sytems? Bridging and routing?

PS. I just remember Bit Lockup! They scramble your bits for you.

[steveie85]

Originally Posted by Compiler

Yet you still can't point to actual features or abilities of Vista over XP. There is a big difference between Win98 > WinXP (Nobody compares WinME to anything) Vista is not a completely different OS yet its problematic. When it runs good for some people - fine, they are the lucky ones.

It still comes down to this: A OS shouldn't require a multi-core, multi-Gigabyte system to play SOLITARE which is included WITH the OS!! Your choice to ignore problems doesn't help anyone.

Other interesting links of vista issues:
About how slow vista is to XP: http://blog.wired.com/monkeybites/20...s-xp-serv.html

Vista DRM: http://blog.wired.com/monkeybites/20...l#previouspost

Vista "Does everyting prettier than XP... because it does it slower".

Compiler please tell me where it says you need a dual or quad core processor, please do. You will have a problem with that request be cause Vista does NOT need a dual core.

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/pro...uirements.mspx
There is a direct link to Microsoft with the recommended system minimums for Vista and at the bottom of that page is the bare minimum you need to run it. Please do point out where it says you need a dual or quad core processor.

[steppenwolf]

i have vista on a laptop with only 512 ram and i can play dvd on it -sometimes jams but its usually ok

the dial up seems to work better than wireless at times

when i get more ram it will get better i guess
guess id prefer xp though

[RobLinux]

My Sister's 2 yr XP old machine, starts up much quicker than my AMD X2 5600+ dual core sytem in Vista mode. Getting to a Vista desktop, is dog slow, once it's up it's OK.
There's a lot of stuff going on, after logging in to, I really would not like or recommend using a single core CPU, unless it's a very fast one. Hyper-thread P4's won't cut it either because of cache-trashing problems. Yes, I have turned off the worst offending applications that do things I can live without.

I have 7 yr old self-built machines, that start up and get running with Linux desktop faster than my new box in Vista mode. But those, whilst able to run all the applications, would be more comfortable running a lighter weight environment. So someone could say you "need" a faster CPU, because it's not comfortable without, and someone else can say you do not "need" because eventually it does get there.

The dude with only 512MB RAM, playing DVDs, might find a Live-CD with DVD player works nicely, you'll have benefit of avoiding region checks and DRM to.

[cherry pie]

Originally Posted by Compiler

It still comes down to this: A OS shouldn't require a multi-core, multi-Gigabyte system to play SOLITARE which is included WITH the OS!! Your choice to ignore problems doesn't help anyone.

Lets put things right. The multi-core multi Gigabyte system is not there to play solitaire. it's there to run the system. with a xillion features, tools, utilities, programs, etc etc etc and solitaire is just one drop in an ocean. They didn't build the system just to run solitaire! if solitaire is the only thing a person wants let them buy a deck of cards!!

Originally Posted by Compiler

Yet you still can't point to actual features or abilities of Vista over XP.

Here are a few things. And I'm still learning:

- ReadyBoost allows to plug a USB memory stick into the computer to speed
- BitLocker Drive Encryption
- Encrypting File System (EFS) allows to encrypt data if many people are sharing a PC
- Scheduled automatic backup and restore features
- Built in easy to use tools so no need for instaling professional programs for non-high-tech users (like photo editing - snipping tool - fax... etc)
- Next-generation printing technology
- Enhanced and efficient searching tools (I think no one can argue the speedy efficient search i got from Vista over XP)
- Easy networking and enhanced sharing especially for home users. like projecting multimedia devices through the network
- Windows SideShow allows to go online even when the PC is off using a secondary screen (although I haven't tried it yet)
- Windows SuperFetch helps tracks most used applications and preloading them into memory for quick access (intelligent system)
- Efficiant help system, self diagnostics and repair tools makes it easy for simple users to fix problems

And for all of the above, if anyone complains that it slows the performance of a computer, that's why it requires high CPU and high memory everything comes to a price.


Bottom line, you should buy a system based on your budget and your needs. Don't spend a lot on something if you don't need it