[caraewilton]

Mmm, this thread is still alive and well. Thought I would add my two cents again and give you an update. Not that anyone cares but this whole thread reminds me of people looking at squished frogs on the sidewalk anyway.

As for the update.
Have used vista for a whole week now! Wow. Okay, please remember I am just your average home user who does not know much about what makes my computer work and cares even less.

Got to say, vista is very nice. I like the cool layout of explorer. Eye candy it may be, but hell enjoy the cool icons and stuff.

Was delighted when my pc connected happily to my office network. Maybe just luck, but hay I am all for no issues.

As for load times, well like all new computers it loads quicker than the last pc. Duh, that is why I bought it!

My graphic programmes are working superbly and video editing is working like a dream. Office is also working nicely.

As for solitre, I did not install it on my pc

[RobLinux]

Whilst I do think Vista is better, these marketing features are laughable so until Compiler can make his point :

Originally Posted by cherry pie

- ReadyBoost allows to plug a USB memory stick into the computer to speed

So the Vista boots dog slow, so now you make a "feature" out of a product that you only need to improve a bad situation!

Also many of these USB drives marketed for "Ready Boost" don't boost anything but your credit card balance. If you don't fragment the drive, you don't need RAM to get fast speeds.

- BitLocker Drive Encryption
- Encrypting File System (EFS) allows to encrypt data if many people are sharing a PC

Only in expensive versions.

- Scheduled automatic backup and restore features
- Built in easy to use tools so no need for instaling professional programs for non-high-tech users (like photo editing - snipping tool - fax... etc)
- Next-generation printing technology

They told me that with Win98 SE!!

- Enhanced and efficient searching tools (I think no one can argue the speedy efficient search i got from Vista over XP)
- Easy networking and enhanced sharing especially for home users. like projecting multimedia devices through the network

Had to turn off the "efficient searching" because building indexes was getting in way too much, and annoying me.

As for "sharing" I wonder how often DRM is going to get in the way. I've had DVDs play right away with Linux, and under Vista I had to go through a rigmarole, just to play something I own!!!!

- Windows SideShow allows to go online even when the PC is off using a secondary screen (although I haven't tried it yet)

Not Vista. That's a lite program, with OS included. You might even find these class of programs are based on BSD or Linux, rather than the Vista OS. Again it's making a feature out of inefficiency.

- Windows SuperFetch helps tracks most used applications and preloading them into memory for quick access (intelligent system)

So this is why these systems suck mud. Lost of go faster features, that all in all, just don't! I've seen this before with Solaris2 SyS V based, v SunOS 4 (aka Solaris 1) BSD based. Features get marketed but they don't necessarily improve the system for end user.

- Efficiant help system, self diagnostics and repair tools makes it easy for simple users to fix problems

This is a joke!! The help system is patronising, slow to react because of way they coded looking for updates on net, and lacks information. However any part that relates to selling "upgrades" to more expensive Vista, or the HW upgrade does work efficiently.

And for all of the above, if anyone complains that it slows the performance of a computer, that's why it requires high CPU and high memory everything comes to a price.

Bottom line, you should buy a system based on your budget and your needs. Don't spend a lot on something if you don't need it

Bad design, bad implementation comes at a price. There are other OSes that have features M$ are only starting to implement, and work fast.

Under the hood, the core Vista kernel is still NT4, they've heaped ornamental feature on feature, but not improved the engine, and the result of munged concepts and muddy thinking, are a half-assed compromise.

Fine, but when was the last significant update to Windows? How long was Win2000 the "state of the art"?

Things added, are DRM trusted stuff, anti-piracy measures, and a horribly unsubtle marketing billboard, which attempts to steer you at every turn into buying more products. None of that benefits the end user, it's for benefit of M$ & M$'s partners and magazines will becareful due to dependancy on advertising revenues!

[Compiler]

Originally Posted by steveie85

Lets see, I have built 18 systems running Vista(of course by customer choice), and not one of them has come back for a downgrade to XP. While yes 2 did come back, they were for virus/malware issues, NOT OS issues. So lets do some math 18 systems built, 18 systems with no complaits = 100% satisfaction and 100% reliability!!

Dell, HPAQ, Gateway, Fry's, CompUSA, etc - sell more than 18 computers with Vista and have a lot more customers that voice their issues with vista. hence, DELL, HPAQ, Lenovo still sell computers with WindowsXP that includes support for security bug fixes until 2014... 6 years from now for a 6 year old Operating System.

[Compiler]

Originally Posted by steveie85

Compiler please tell me where it says you need a dual or quad core processor, please do. You will have a problem with that request be cause Vista does NOT need a dual core.

Common sense dicates when I type "mega ram, multi-core" - yer kind of right about that... But as WE ALL know about min. requirements - that doesn't mean it work very well. You and others blasted at me that the problem was "512mb and the Celeron cpu"... 2GB and multicore CPUs are the way to go... and with todays prices, in general they are.

The link you provided said 1Ghz CPU & 512mb min.... hmmm... the 3.5Ghz CPU and 1GB RAM was still a horrible running machine.

[RootbeaR]

Originally Posted by Compiler

Common sense dicates when I type "mega ram, multi-core" - yer kind of right about that... But as WE ALL know about min. requirements - that doesn't mean it work very well. You and others blasted at me that the problem was "512mb and the Celeron cpu"... 2GB and multicore CPUs are the way to go... and with todays prices, in general they are.

The link you provided said 1Ghz CPU & 512mb min.... hmmm... the 3.5Ghz CPU and 1GB RAM was still a horrible running machine.

A friend of mine just bought a brand new HP a6218x two nights ago.

Vista pre-installed.

First time in my life I ever saw a monitor go to sleep whilst waiting for the OS to start.

2GB RAM, 1.6 GHz duo core Pentium.

http://forums.techguy.org/unix-linux...all-linux.html

He can now start it, check e-mail and log off faster than Vista started.

I had my computer beside it, started his, started mine.

Let mine take ten seconds to decide which OS to load(loaded default PCLinuxOS), his

only had Vista.

I checked five e-mail accounts, logging in and out of each in turn, logged off puter and

shut down.

The monitor on the Vista machine comes out of sleep mode.

I will admit that even now having the same OS on both machines, my computer starts

faster for some reason. But not that much faster.

What happened to save time and get more done? Without mentioning that you must double or quadruple your horsepower compared to what you are using now.

[Compiler]

Originally Posted by cherry pie

Lets put things right. The multi-core multi Gigabyte system is not there to play solitaire. it's there to run the system. with a xillion features, tools, utilities, programs, etc etc etc and solitaire is just one drop in an ocean. They didn't build the system just to run solitaire! if solitaire is the only thing a person wants let them buy a deck of cards!!

1 - vista doesn't have a xillion features, etc. Also, its not an actual word (in reference as to meaning something about numbers)

2 - If Solitare is a simple little thing... then the system should fly, eh?

3 - CPU usage on the PC with Vista (before murdered) was about 6~10% idle (vs 2~4% with XP) - so the system wasn't doing a whole lot.

4 - What if someone WANTS to play on a computer screen because THEIR HANDS cannot handle a deck of real cards?!

Here are a few things. And I'm still learning:

The Feature list you pasted below is a marketing bullet list... I asked for Actual functionality that vista can do, but XP cannot. And from a REAL WORLD point of view... not just BS from the side of a box. You have listed 11 "features" lets validate them:

- ReadyBoost allows to plug a USB memory stick into the computer to speed

Already proven to be a joke... er, if the OS was well made to begin with - why stick in an external memory module (SLOW) which is not secure for more speed? This is useless in vista and would be more so in XP or any other OS.

Its cheaper and far faster to ADD another GB of internal RAM ($25) than use an external USB key... read the below link:
http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/01/...boostanalyzed/

Score = 0/11 (zero out of 11 possible points)

- BitLocker Drive Encryption

Important things about this one: BitLocker Drive Encryption is a data protection feature available in Windows Vista Enterprise and Ultimate ONLY. That makes it a NON OS function but a tool you pay for. Such tools have been around for years on XP.

Score = 0/11

- Encrypting File System (EFS) allows to encrypt data if many people are sharing a PC

er... we have this built into Windows 2000 and WindowsXP. NOW if we were talking Windows9x vs XP or Vista, then YOU WOULD HAVE A FEATURE.

Score = 0/11

- Scheduled automatic backup and restore features

This function is not IN ALL versions of Vista. Vista has 3 types of back levels. All versions of WindowsXP includes a basic backup program which can be scheduled. (XP-HOME, its on the OEM disc for installation)

Score = 0/11

- Built in easy to use tools so no need for instaling professional programs for non-high-tech users (like photo editing - snipping tool - fax... etc)

*sigh* Tools are not functions/features. I asked for abilities. DX10 is the closest thing the list, but IT could still be coded for XP. Photo editing, FAX - you can get it for free or buy it for any OS... TRY www.google.com

Score = 0/11

- Next-generation printing technology

Can you explain that one?

Score = 0/11

- Enhanced and efficient searching tools (I think no one can argue the speedy efficient search i got from Vista over XP)

It indexes more than XP and has the Search box on the start menu... nice. The advance Search window... ah, back from the ole Windows98 days. Agent Ransack is free for XP and VISTA... pretty nice. But keep in mind of this... Vista Search will only Search for files M$ allows, which can be a pain when looking for a dll file. Agent Ransack isn't censored.

Go Ahead, try to easily search file specific jpg or video files in your IE Cache DIR. (Know where it is? M$ purposly hides this) I'll give ya a point here on the Instant search... but a 512K program for XP does give us vista' start-search field.

Score = 1/11

- Easy networking and enhanced sharing especially for home users. like projecting multimedia devices through the network

Okay... networking... What do you mean by projecting?

Score = 1/11

- Windows SideShow allows to go online even when the PC is off using a secondary screen (although I haven't tried it yet)

If we are using devices that don't need a PC (TV REmote, cell phone) then why do people want to have the PC do this?

Score = 1/11

- Windows SuperFetch helps tracks most used applications and preloading them into memory for quick access (intelligent system)

Okay... this is one reason vista is a memory hog... perhaps if it was a better OS, it wouldn't need to do this? Yeah, load up word incase you need it. I clicked on Word just now... 4 seconds for the first time. 2 seconds for the 2nd time. XP has a varient of this as well. PS: Programs I use every day on startup, I drop them in the Startup Menu...

Score = 2/11 I'll give ya a point.

- Efficiant help system, self diagnostics and repair tools makes it easy for simple users to fix problems

A varient of the one for XP... but these are just text. Perhaps if it were a simpler and smaller OS - it wouldn't crash o so much.

Score = 2/11

And for all of the above, if anyone complains that it slows the performance of a computer, that's why it requires high CPU and high memory everything comes to a price.

Fine, you get to pay for it I have work to do.

[RobLinux]

M$'s Latest OS!!!! http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/n...StarterFS.mspx

[bp936]

compiler, I argued this often, just as you said it
:"You also don't need a NASCAR to drive to the corner McDonalds to order a BigMac either."

and has anyone ever got the email about:
"If Microsoft made cars" ?? PRICELESS

So every time someone buys a new house, you have to leave yours and get a new one too? When is Microsoft going to realize, some people drive a Datsun (!) and some people drive a BMW or Cadillac, so why not have different level of operating systems. I actually liked the old MicrosoftWorks all in one CD that came with one of my computers. It is only advertising, that pushes big expensive programs onto people to have to buy. We have at work the latest MS Office, but most people only know 2% of the program, how to use them.
For games, people buy Playstations, xbox ETC,
I don't need a Supersonic to go to work, I need a low-fuel consumption, safe, reliable car, should be the same with computers.

p.s. I know people who now buy MACs since Vista came out, might just be the way to go to break the monopoly.

[bp936]

Originally Posted by RobLinux

M$'s Latest OS!!!! http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/n...StarterFS.mspx

ohhh, thanks, look at the Release date guys and girls !!!!!

[steveie85]

MAC's start at $1200, I can build one and sell all accessories for it for less then that!! Compiler, I have built a few running $50 AMD Sempron 3400+ CPU at 1.8GHz. Customer said it runs as good as there old XP did when they first bought it. That machine has 1GB of DDR2 ram from Kingston. All my computers are built the way my clientele want them. I don't build the same system over and over unless the buy one of my signature systems.

I was not saying anything about big box companies either. I was stating a fact that if you look at other companies and see how many systems came back because of the OS failing or people not liking the OS, that it is a low number, less then 15%. The 18 systems I built with Vista never came back. However that being said I have built 150 XP systems and 23 have came back due to OS problems. Those OS issues where drivers for printers and other peripherals connected to computer causing compatibility issues. May I suggest you take a moment to think long and hard before you flap your gums!!

[coffeefool]

Originally Posted by steveie85

Vista is new. Only been out a little while. Of course there is going to be issues. Microsoft is working on it. It takes some time to fix every little thing, but they are working on it.

I had an instructor in college that mentioned that M$ was good at this: producing good-enough (or not so good) software. Question. Why not refrain from releasing Vista until all the bugs are worked out? Why put something out there that is constantly having to be worked on? M$ isn't putting their product out there with the consumer in mind, they're putting it out there with $ on their mind. They know they have a majority of the market and they can get away with putting crap on the market.

[steveie85]

When they release it as a beta to be tested they are not releaseing it to the general public. People use diffrent programs diffrently, which can make an OS do funny stuff. Lets wait till Monday when SP1 is released in beta to see what it has.

[Delta Dart]

Good post Steveie. I agree VISTA works fine. Someone kill this thred and press on.
If anyon does not like VISTA return to XP and stop complaining. 131 post is enough.
Russ

[steveie85]

Everyone complained about XP when it first came out, then SP1 got released and it was better but there was still issues then SP2 came out and it was better then SP1 and there are still problems with XP, I have had some come back that were OS issues with XP in it, so XP is far from perfect, just like MAC and Linux. Delta has a good point If you don't like Vista go back to XP and shut up.

[managed]

I thought the idea of the forum is to help people with problems, not to go on ego trips and slag off Vista ?

Reminds me of the Linux crowd, looking down their collective noses at 'Windoze' users, just because you can get your head around linux doesn't mean you have the right to rubbish other OS's.

I feel better now !