[RootbeaR]

Originally Posted by Ditchster

RootbeaR, the IE is a completely seperate app altogether - any version of windows can be installed without it. So you are free to choose which one to install.. What is quite laughable is that there are not many web browser images available to system builders to add along side Windows 7 - so which one will they go for, of all choices - yep, IE8 - no skin of Microsofts nose due to the fact that that IE8 images are readily available now

You can't un-install IE. It is part of the OS.

[aka Brett]

I think you can hide it but the files are still there

[Ditchster]

You can have a new computer with a Windows 7 OS without IE8 or any other browser for that matter. Web browsers are a seperate programme from the main OS. If you think i am lying - un-install your (hopefully old browser) and i assure you your computer will reboot without a second thought.

[RootbeaR]

Originally Posted by Ditchster

You can have a new computer with a Windows 7 OS without IE8 or any other browser for that matter. Web browsers are a seperate programme from the main OS. If you think i am lying - un-install your (hopefully old browser) and i assure you your computer will reboot without a second thought.

Windows 7 isn't out yet.

The lawsuit was over before win7 was out.

[DaveA]

The EU Commission has asked MS to provide other browsers with the retail and OEM version of Windows 7. But MS is not going to provide any, as I see it if they provide one, then MS will be sued by the others for not using theirs.

The OEM's can install any browser they want. The buyer of a retail copy can install what they want

[Ditchster]

For UK readers - If you are like me, and after reading the above you are left with a sense of confusion and mistrust with the whole affair and are also demanding clarity - then please add your name to the Downing Street Petition calling for a public enquiry – see the following link (and please pass it on) http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/Ditchster/

[Compiler]

The issue (I think) that caused a lot of this is that MS integrated IE into Windows, not so much that is was included. Lets go back a bit.

Back in 1995, Windows95 didn't come with a browser, originally. Then they added IE 2 as just a browser. When buying a PC, it generally came with Netscape or the one before Netscape (forgot the name). With Win98 above, MS set up that you can only use IE to download updates.

This is what BUGS me (in the USA) is that I cannot download updates from opera... its the ONLY website (for the most part) that requires IE to "function", complete BS.

While I'm not a fan of MS. EU should have ruled to either they include other browsers (which isn't fair to MS, either) or at least make easily removable. But as stated above, even Explorer has IE code in it. Its an inconvenience to some people, but not difficult to stick in a USB key or CD with browsers and install from there. Thats how it was in the OLD days.

Its not difficult for any PC company in the EU to install any browser they want before they ship out the PC.... its pretty much a non issue.

[Ditchster]

thanks for your post Compiler,

If you scan through the numerous Antitrust documentation pertaining to Microsoft - you will see that the bulk of the concerns are about Microsoft bundling non-essential apps like Office Suite (trial versions) amongst others.
Bottom line is that whilst Microsoft has suceeded in obtaining a 94% market share of OS globally - it is understandably not appreciated that it has used its dominance to try and force additional market share from other software developers.

The one plus side (for EU peeps) the soon to be released Windows 7 will be free from pre-loaded Office and IE - these will be on seperate discs. So you have the choice - which is nice i suppose.

This still does not change the fact that Chrome OS is going to be in a tight spot

[Compiler]

It could yes. No more than anyone else. Apple would be in the same boat with Safari. There only defense is that they have limited marketshare and that the OS doesn't rely on the browser... and if both include FireFox and Opera, all should be well.

But in actually there is something else that is different... look.

Internet Explorer = Windows
Safari = Windows, MacOS
FireFox = Windows, MacOS, Linux
Chrome = Windows, MacOS, Linux
Opera = Windows, MacOS, Linux (32/64bit), FreeBSD (32/64bit), Solaris (Sparc & Intel)

Other browsers work in other OSs... MS only makes their browser for Windows. But then again, I think a lot of people would prefer to not use IE. So market dominace with IE is the problem. If ChromeOS has support of Opera and FF - it shouldn't be a problem... as much.

[Ditchster]

And this is exactly the big issue - the likes of Apple and Microsoft can distribute their products Without a browser or if they were feeling generous - offer several choices.

However can Google do the same with Chrome OS....... if you read all of the statements to date from senior Google staff - their forthcoming Chrome isn't an OS with a browser Its a Browser that is an OS meant for less powerfull mobile computers - namely netbooks.

As to how much trouble Google are in no-one knows at the moment.

I have had a response from Googles' press office (which i e-mailed yesterday) and they are asking for further clarification from me as to specific questions i would like answered.... so before i reply later this evening i would welcome some suggestions from folk as to what queries if any require answers from Google.

[Compiler]

ChromeOS is open source and free.

WindowsOS is not free. IE isn't free or available unless you have Windows.

Big difference. ChromeOS is not in danger.

LOL... and for the netbooks, Win7 without IE would be useless...

[RootbeaR]

""The European Commission can confirm that Microsoft has proposed a consumer ballot screen as a solution to the pending antitrust case," the statement indicates. Microsoft's proposal would allow Windows 7 to ship with Internet Explorer, but OEMs could add any additional browsers as they saw fit, saving users the hassle of a download. The statement also reiterates that the Commission does not see a browserless Win 7 as a viable solution for restoring competition."
http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/new...ser-ballot.ars

[Ditchster]

Compiler, Google has not confirmed that chrome os will be free - the only statements i have looked into have stated that there has not been a decission as to what Chrome OS will cost - i might have missed something so please let me know otherwise.

However if you try to see through the eyes of an Antitrust Comission -

Just as Microsoft has a monopoly on OS sales - Google holds a massive 74% plus stake in the web search market (which is ad revenue supported, and worth allot!!!), of which Microsoft holds only 9% max. So even if Google offer Chrome OS for free it would have to be without an integrated search platform otherwise Microsoft will only push for the same restrictions that have been imposed on them.

The bottom line still stands true that Microsoft have clearly demonstrated that they are able to get round the EU restrictions and be in a position to sell their product - Google will not be in the same comfort zone if their own OS CANNOT be seperated and distributed accordingly. Again as said several times already, an inconvenience to Microsoft - BUT a monumental blow for Google.

The clock will be ticking for Google who will know that they need to issue a viable competitor to MS Win 7 Before it gets to general Service Pack 1 release - after which it will be a great deal more difficult to try and get established.

For those of you who don't understand the SP1 significance - in a very simplified nutshell - it comes down to consumer confidence (with good reason which i will not go into on this post)

[Ditchster]

Rootbear, this is great news i guess re the change in direction (supposedly) by Microsoft that they will be offering numerous browsers with the forthcoming Win 7 release - I will wager good money that one of them is not Google Chrome!!!

However, if Google OS has a FULLY integrated web browser - how on earth can they offer multi browser options at point of sale???

Just to clarify - IF it is required within the EU that Operating Systems are required to offer web browser multiple options - then Googles new Browser OS is in a tight fix indeed!!!!!

[Compiler]

Do you know how GNU/Linux works?

How many consumer products does Google sell? Earth, Picasa, Office, Mail...?

Using Linux as its "OS" under the hood - Google is required to offer it for free. Now, they can charge for services. They can shape and support it any way they want. They can add their own custom code as well for their own uses.

Ubuntu, Red Hat (Fedora) and many others have free unsupported versions of their OS. They make their money through support. There are other free versions that have no support.

Chrome OS can be installed on any device that can support it. IE is a MS-OS only browser for a paid for OS.

Anyways, this isn't a court room. If it becomes a problem, it'll be Google to deal with it.

Also: Glad and hope to see the Win7 in Europe includes other browsers by default... if that is SO, I wish it was like that in the USA