[Compiler]

Originally Posted by Ditchster

I very much disagree, simply on the basis of multi-tasking. The globe saw a large number of established (pre-windows) software developers embrace a multi-tasking visual interface - this is the OS platform which gave birth to AutoCAD R12

Windows 3.x wasn't a true multitasking OS. It was a cooperative multitasking... which meant it didn't happen very much, but allowed multiple windows to be opened at the same time. WinNT & Win95 was multi-tasking. Win3.1 was a badly designed 16bit GUI on top of a 70's era DOS. It was born garbage. But yeah, the PC industry embraced garbage.
If a starving man is offered moldy bread, he'll eat it like its the best thing in the world.

Macintosh OS didn't have multitasking until OS-X. Its OS was even more restricted to task-switching.

In the real world of computers, Win3 while complete junk - was of course a money maker for MS. I know, because I built and sold PCs since the mid 90s after the death of Amigas.
In fact, I even brought one of my Amigas to the PC-Store I worked at to GET work done.

I took AutoCAD, even used to do CLI commands to make my work... I was very good in class.

Windows 3 was the first widely used multi-tasking OS platform where as its predecessors were considered gimmiks. Win 3 was the first windows platform to be taken seriously and saw the advent of IE2 through to IE5 during its many updates.

Since I grew up using a Multitasking OS, hands down - Win3.1 (1992~1995) was never a multi-tasking OS, much less an OS. It has all the limitations of MS-DOS. The internet didn't start taking off until Windows95. Win3.x was never quite good at doing internet. When Win95 came out, Win3.1 was quickly forgotten. Only among DOS users was Win3 considered an OMG! thingy. AmigaOS and MacOS were not gimmicks, they were OSs that came out in 1984/85 that were already ahead of WIn3... first because they were actually OSs. OS/2 was a good product, but the strength of MS killed that off (different story all together). The business / PC market wanted cheap PCs with mono-colors that allowed them to run WordPerfect and Lotus notes. Win3 gave them some "modern-like" functionality while bring 100% with 70's garbage. If they (business users) were smart and wanted to use something advanced - they had a choice, MS-DOS/Win3 wasn't it.

So on that basis i hope you begin to understand how that OS platform greatly changed the way computer professionals operated and functioned - it pretty much turned computer operating on its head.

Win3.1 did nothing. It was a horrible experience. The only thing worse was dealing with Win95 growing pains of MS's first attempt at PnP. Something that the 680x0 systems were doing just fine, even with 32bit before Win3.x/DOS6 ever came along. AutoCAD should have been on an NT system back then. The PC market didn't start hitting the home market until Win95 and the cost of VGA graphics & systems were becoming affordable.

BTW: MS finally stopped selling Win3.x November 2008.

Compiler.... XP Pro is a great deal better than Vista in the hardware utilization stakes. The very big question is if the XP Mode on the Win 7 actually matches up to XP

XP in Win7 is emulation for the sake of crappy software. Why on Earth run Photoshop CS in XP-Mode under Win7 for? Older software like Photoshop 7 and MS-Office 2000 runs just fine on Vista/Win7. For fun, I stuck W7 on a P3/512mb system that I'm about to rip apart... CPU usage is better than under a clean Win98 that was on there before. I was running both PS7 and MS-Word & Excel at the same time... still faster than Vista on a P4-3.0Ghz w/1.5GB I had to work on last month.

The biggest problem for anyone wanting to get into using a Linux based platform at the moment is that there are over 2000 different versions of it available to download globally - so most folk will find that daunting to say the least. This platform available from Google will be the very first Linux based OS for the mass-market

I don't think theres 2000 versions of Linux, of course I could make my own... so maybe, doesn't matter. Only a handful are useful for the masses and we pretty much know what those are. ChromeOS will most likely not be promoted as a Lix. Wait and see is best.

Notebooks today can run any consumer OS available because they generally have a pretty high spec compared to laptops of a few years ago. The acid test is to stress test the OS and hardware with hardware hungry apps/games - and has anyone really done that (see previously mentioned additional thread). So unless you are pushing your hardware - then you will not be pushing the OS.

Netbooks with ATOMS are using P3 tech at about 1.5Ghz... enough for a small minimal XP and Win7 OS. They are tiny and use low-performance NB, so playing games is not going to happen nor are the expected to.

No, the SP1 is not an idea, it is a dogma to MS - so they will wait until the SP1 release to get peace of mind before spending a penny....and THAT is the deadline for a viable competitor OS to be release, and not after!!

I understand what you mean about SP1. I don't really care. Many people don't care. Vista after SP1 was improved, but still crap... so? Win2000 has like 4/5ish SP. Its never ending. Win7rc will always be a better OS than Vista SP1,2 or 3. 40% of the business market that uses MS-OSs are planning to migrate to Win7 in its first year... which means many of them will be using Win7 before SP1 even comes out.

[Ditchster]

Windows 3.x wasn't a true multitasking OS. It was a cooperative multitasking... which meant it didn't happen very much, but allowed multiple windows to be opened at the same time.

Please understand that for professional productivity users of large applications which started their careers using DOS only....the advent of Win 3 was huge - The differences between AutoCAD R11 Dos between AutoCAD R12 Win was massive - it allowed other (as you put it cooperative) programmes to run simulataneous and, even better, drag data from one app (lets say surveying info) into a running CAD model.... this went on for a few of years before win 95 came. I appreciate the fact that you are veiwing the advent of Win 3 from a consumers point of view, however, it did change the way i personally worked well before Win 95.

XP in Win7 is emulation for the sake of crappy software. Why on Earth run Photoshop CS in XP-Mode under Win7 for? Older software like Photoshop 7 and MS-Office 2000 runs just fine on Vista/Win7

I appreciate the fact that this issue is running under a seperate thread - but i would very much appreciate it if you could state which apps you have got running well under Win 7 - the thread is "Stress testing Win 7 XP Mode" and your comments would be more than welcome.

[Compiler]

Originally Posted by Ditchster

Please understand that for professional productivity users of large applications which started their careers using DOS only....the advent of Win 3 was huge - / appreciate the fact that you are veiwing the advent of Win 3 from a consumers point of view, however, it did change the way i personally worked well before Win 95.

I completely understand. But you're not quite seeing the picture. Business and users like yourself used MSDOS for your apps. Obviously, AutoCAD didn't have an Amiga or Mac version... but to think that "OMG! Windows has changed the world" has always been a rather false honor to give for computer advancement. What if, in 1988 - AutoCAD was for Amiga? If you an ADD or a direct comparison of AutoCAD on a GUI OS or DOS - you'd might have bought an Amiga. And here also likes the stupid thing.
"I need windows for DOS compatibility / learning a new OS" er... okay. The DOS version of your APP requires you to purchase a Windows version of a product and that Windows (even 3.x) is still a different ways of computer interactions requiring training or teaching yourself.

So, DOS users could have been using Amigas years earlier and had a better productivity computer well before Win95. Yeah yeah, Win3.0 came out in 1990 and 3.1 in 92... I'm comparing a 32bit native multi-tasking OS (89) to a 16bit GUI shell.

Of course, at that time even thou Amigas came with the ability to display 4096colors (compared to a typical more expensive EGA or MONO PC) - the A3000 maxed out at 800x600 in 16colors for the GUI. Not bad for its era... typical of low-end PC CAD systems had 1~16 colors. But Amigas didn't have HiRes Video cards back then to produce 1600x1200 on 21" CRTs back then. So the issue still falls back onto C= for being a stupid company and not expanding on the business market - but just the home user and Video editing market.

And with the above, its the same problem today with Linux and Mac vs. MS-Windows.
Mac's biggest problem is their over-priced (but generally good) hardware. Linux (which ChromeOS is included) is not centralized for mainstream... they get better and better at it, but without support from Intuit, Adobe and other major software players - Linux won't be replacing Windows anytime soon - for the typical "sheep" users. The sheep part is not an insult. Computer concepts beyond the browser is still a challenge for the average person. Take 100 of todays 16yr old kids, only 1 of them would know how to setup a computer, secure it, update the hardware, etc. To the other 99, its just a magic box that allows them to use MySpace and IM all day. While they make fun of nerds, etc who make it possible for them to use MySpace, IM and play with Xboxes all day

I appreciate the fact that this issue is running under a seperate thread - but i would very much appreciate it if you could state which apps you have got running well under Win 7 - the thread is "Stress testing Win 7 XP Mode" and your comments would be more than welcome.

Assume most, if not all major brand applications to work under Windows7 that have been released since XP. Games, some problems. Specialized custom software, don't assume.
Programs like Norton Utilities where its usually hooks into the OS, are OS specific of course. The compatibility issues of Vista was mostly drivers and how MS handled driver certificates and that MS didn't work with vendors in this area. MS had changed how drivers are handled in Vista and it made the developers work much harder. Functionality problems with Vista is all MS.

Considering the kind of people who may NEED XP emulation, it should be included in the PRO version of 7. As it is, very few people will actually need it. I bet Office97 will run on windows7... Just have to find the disc.

[Compiler]

You should include the link to wherever that thread is.

[Ditchster]

With regards to the thread "Stress testing Win 7 XP Mode" please see the following:
http://forums.techguy.org/windows-vi...dows-7-xp.html

For one, I am very glad you are not dismissing the previously stated concept re the advantages to Win 3 and the birth of the amiga and thier significance - and this brings me back to this:

If LINUX was fully supported via the intervention of a global power-house (which undoubtebly Google is) then we could see the birth of a new era in computer OS platforms which has never been seen since 1990. You may think that an overstatement - but it is a substantiated opinion, and it centres on how much global support Google would get with an alternative OS to Windows. But the question is - just how much trouble is Google in regarding thier proposed OS and the recent MS entanglements with the EEC.

[Compiler]

We'll have to see what happens.

[Ditchster]

I appreciate your input Compiler within this thread - especially the nostalgic trip down computer memory lane (i do miss Jet Set Willy).

[Deagon]

This situation seems oddly fair and yet unfair at the same time.

Am I the only person here that remembers the browser war between Ie and mosaic all those years ago?

It may simply be that EU are trying to avoid other competitors being squashed by the might of a major software company.

But it is my belief that they are doing this completely the wrong way.

This appears to be another situation of clueless 'know it all's' deciding whats best whilst on the toilet one evening.

[RootbeaR]

Originally Posted by Ditchster

I appreciate your input Compiler within this thread - especially the nostalgic trip down computer memory lane (i do miss Jet Set Willy).

Play Classic DOS Games on Ubuntu Linux

[Ditchster]

RootbeaR, Jet Set Willy was first out on the Spectrum 48K - now that is going back a few years lol

[Compiler]

I used to have an Odyssey2 emulator... and I still have my actual hardware with 40 games.

[RootbeaR]

Originally Posted by Ditchster

RootbeaR, Jet Set Willy was first out on the Spectrum 48K - now that is going back a few years lol

I just learned how to turn on a PC this millennium.

[Ditchster]

LMAO, cheers RootbeaR - don't suppose anyone has come accross a Spectrum elulator with downloadable games so Old(ish) folk like me can go on a pleasant nostalgic trip??

[RootbeaR]

Originally Posted by Ditchster

LMAO, cheers RootbeaR - don't suppose anyone has come accross a Spectrum elulator with downloadable games so Old(ish) folk like me can go on a pleasant nostalgic trip??

Hey, I did play asteroids* on a commodore 64* when I was a kid.

*I can't remember the details of title or platform. Was a friends. @ '76

[Compiler]

Commodore 64 didn't come out until around 82.