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The Trump Thread

146K views 3K replies 38 participants last post by  Cookiegal 
#1 · (Edited)
There are two questions that Forum Members might like to think about and then give their view.

Q1. How many days will Trump serve as US President?
Q2. For what reason will his presidency be ended?

------------------------- Some info to help answer the questions -------------------------

Minimum number of days : 1 day
Maximum number of days : 2,922 days (8 x 365 + 2)

Possible reasons for presidency to be terminated (in Alphabetical order)
  • Completes both terms and therefore must leave office
  • Completes first term and does not get re-elected
  • Impeachment
  • Loses the support of the Republican Party
  • Resignation due to perceived threat of danger
  • Resignation due to personal issues
  • Scandals
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

T.

[Edited to reflect Littlefield's suggestion]
 
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#2 · (Edited)
Too many volatile considerations for me to speculate.
Obama faced many and finished 2 terms.
Bush faced incredible odds of being tried as a war criminal, and finished 2 terms.
Clinton faced impeachment proceedings and finished 2 terms.

Nixon resigned teaching future politicians just how important it was to consider plausible deniability as a cover up.

Time will tell. :D


John :)


(edited to reflect Littlefield's concerns and my intent )
 
#8 ·
Two thumbs up for the comments made by Phantom010....(y)(y)....right on the spot.

However, the REAL problem with Trump is not that he has been elected President.....

The REAL problem with President Trump is that he was able to bully the Republican Party to accept him as their candidate. If he had stood as an independent and had won the election..... then if that was the choice of the electorate in a free-and-fair election, then that is Democracy - it is not a perfect system.

But to have this person as the representative of the Republican Party will overshadow the party for many years to come. This is more than an embarrassment, it is a failure to uphold the trust of the electorate, a trust that is not only an American-thing but a trust that the entire world has in America. That trust has been violated.

T.
 
#9 · (Edited)
Americans, and especially Republicans, had plenty of time to see what they were getting into, but still... I get it why they did not vote for Hillary. Hell, I don't like her either. I was a Bernie supporter myself. How many voted for Trump only because he was head of the Republican party? The guy is an opportunist. He wasn't even a conservative! He chose that party because he knew it would be the only one who would get him elected. And too many voters will vote Republican no matter what (like women, for instance... go figure...) ... They'd vote for Putin if he came along! Not saying Dems are prefect though, as many chose to vote for Trump (and Hillary)... I believe both Trump and Clinton should have been disqualified from the start. The whole campaign was a joke!
 
#12 ·
Well here's my two cents worth. We should add a category to ALL ballots called none of the above. If "none of the above" gets the majority of votes there has to be a new election, and all previous candidates are not allowed to run. If we did it this way maybe the "parties" would have to start putting reasonable choices on the ballots.
 
#13 ·
Having a "none" vote is plausibly a good idea, but fundamentally it would have the same issue as third parties. The expectation would be that it would finish a distant third, which means that people who strongly object to A would still feel that only B has a plausible chance of stopping them. The best way out of this would be a voting system (such as IRV) that allows people to vote first for what they really believe, and then without penalty for a lesser of two evils backup answer.

Not that the US voting system is at all complicated enough as it is...
 
#14 ·
As long as a largely uneducated general voting populace responds more to emotionalism and polarization than critical thinking, few good choices will emerge, as demonstrated in this last election, a political race that wound up between two poor choices.
There were more than 2 parties on this last Presidential 'ticket' and none but the Reps and Dems had any mathematical significance.

A 'none of above' is an objection to the leading party candidates.
IMO, there is a lot of logic to a scenario where a 'noa' majority forces political parties to nominate more viable candidates.
Mathematically, even an IRV system could 'elect' a noa minority with a large enough plurality ;) ...... :D

I chose not to vote the Presidential ticket.
( none of 'this' is my fault :p )



Don't worry
be Happy.


John :)
 
#15 ·
Well here's my two cents worth. We should add a category to ALL ballots called none of the above. If "none of the above" gets the majority of votes there has to be a new election, and all previous candidates are not allowed to run. If we did it this way maybe the "parties" would have to start putting reasonable choices on the ballots.
How about yet another category.... "All of the above".

Could you imagine Trump and Hillary sharing the Oval Office.... Executive Orders requiring two signatures.... Invitations to visit other countries could be halved, first half Hillary (she got more votes), second half Trump; whatever agreements Hillary had made with the Brits or the Chinese or that Chubby guy who wants to nuke the world, Trump could nullify. And they could take it in turns who goes first.... next time after you.

Trump could build a wall and Hillary could knock it down. Hillary could issue everyone on the planet with a Green Card and Trump could make them wait forever in the immigration halls...... the ideas are endless. This is truly a brave new world.

Am I Einstein's great-great-grandchild or what..? This idea must be up their with Relativity... and that Quantum Stuff... and Big Bangs.... great-great-grandpapa would be proud of me....:confused::eek::rolleyes:

T.
 
#17 ·
Ha!!

Kind of Old School election stuff, where the most popular/ second most popular person became POTUS and VP!!

Boy I bet there were some arguments to be remembered!! LOL!!

I saw a documentary that alluded to the idea that Roosevelt did not like Truman; and shared virtually nothing with him.
 
#16 ·
As long as a largely uneducated general voting populace responds more to emotionalism and polarization than critical thinking, few good choices will emerge, as demonstrated in this last election, a political race that wound up between two poor choices.
There were more than 2 parties on this last Presidential 'ticket' and none but the Reps and Dems had any mathematical significance.

A 'none of above' is an objection to the leading party candidates.
IMO, there is a lot of logic to a scenario where a 'noa' majority forces political parties to nominate more viable candidates.
Mathematically, even an IRV system could 'elect' a noa minority with a large enough plurality ;) ...... :D

I chose not to vote the Presidential ticket.
( none of 'this' is my fault :p )

Don't worry
be Happy.

John :)
Good morning, John!

I believe it's critical that everyone vote. In 2016 roughly 1/2 (by the number I saw) of eligible voters didn't show up to vote. 1/2 the country did not let their voice be heard.

From this link:
http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-voter-turnout-records-history-obama-clinton-2016-11

In 14 states, more people voted in the Senate races than voted for president. The overall results show that nearly 2.4 million people nationwide cast ballots but left the presidential line blank
That is deeply troubling to me.

For the November 2016 Presidential Election, I would say roughly 20% on each side were... "enthused" about each candidate. And IMO, the rest kind of held their nose so to speak and voted. I get that.

But I think every single person needs to vote for somebody; even if it's Libertarian/ Independent/ or whatever. Because.... when people don't vote, their opinion really is meaningless; their opinion really cannot be objectively measured. If there is a bus full of people and we need to vote where to go lunch. Out of 50 people, only 15 are raising their hands voting (even when I ask "something else"). However, if 20 hands go up on the "something else" option, I know we need to redo the choices. But without that 20 raising their hand, that tells me they are ambivalent and checked out; so they really don't care what choice the 15 make. So... no, I don't want to hear a peep out of the 35 that never raised their hand. ;)

If 20-30% consistently voted for an independent candidate, now... that means something. They're going to have to start to be taken seriously. Then... they can start to garner money and position.

Even between Clinton/ Trump, I would think even if people couldn't stand them as people (which is easy to do... :) :D) something about their platform ( scope of gov't; immigration reform; makeup of the SCOTUS; Foreign Policy; economic concerns; etc.) would influence individuals to pick one of them.
 
#19 ·
Good morning, John!

I believe it's critical that everyone vote. In 2016 roughly 1/2 (by the number I saw) of eligible voters didn't show up to vote. 1/2 the country did not let their voice be heard.
.............................
I decided to vote my conscience in this last election.
Too many times I've chosen the lesser of two evils and regretted it even when choosing a loser.
If a party wants my vote, it has to be on a candidate suitable for the office even if I disagree on many positions.
I saw NO honesty in either the Dem or Rep candidates and the other two candidates were irrelevant.

The Dem was a dishonest leftwinger to the point of being a socialist and the Rep was/is a dishonest RINO opportunistic populist.

IMHO (of course) :D

There's enough 'alternative facts' by both that make them look like political buffoons ( dangerous ).

The real danger is assuming there is a justification to make me choose either 'poison'.
This may be an extreme analogy, but consider it any way:
If the only choice you ( Brad ) had at the ballot box in a free election was between Hitler and Stalin, do you think someone has any reason or justification to argue that you ( Brad ) should make a choice between the two for the betterment of our nation and it's society?

I made a choice I can live with. 'None of the Above'.

John :)
 
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#18 ·
Good morning Dr :)

Indeed.
With the possible exception of Cheney, most VP's went into the history books largely unknown unless/until elected as POTUS.

It was a bad idea in the 1800's and still is :D
That's why the system gave it up.


John :)
 
#21 ·
Forgot one thing, John....

I do like that you took the time to actually research things and formulate a reasonable response about voting....(y)

People that just vote out of fear, or worse, total/complete ignorance about anything... bothers me. :)
 
#24 ·
In a previous Post on this Thread I wrote.....

"......The REAL problem with President Trump is that he was able to bully the Republican Party to accept him as their candidate....."

This unfortunate chapter in history will always be a stain on the Republican Party. It matters not which political ideology you subscribe to, even if you have been a loyal Republican since you were eligible to vote, the fact that the Republican Party did not have the courage to stand up and say "Not in our name", will always haunt them for a long time to come.

T.
 
#25 · (Edited)
Huh???

This makes no sense. He beat the socks off of every other republican in the primaries and beat Hillary. The Republican voters (that is the party) put him there.

The only "Republicans" who weren't happy were career politicians who wanted someone they could control.

But the people who put him there, are seeing a man get things done. We couldn't be happier. :)
 
#26 ·
Brad, it does make sense if you took the time to read the Post that I referred to (Post #8). In that Post I also wrote....

"......If he (Trump) had stood as an independent and had won the election..... then if that was the choice of the electorate in a free-and-fair election, then that is Democracy....."

The issue is not about Trump winning the election. The issue is that he supposedly represents one of the two major parties - in this case the Republicans, but my comments would have been exactly the same had it been the Democrats.

Trump does not represent the political philosophy of the Republicans and therefore should never have been allowed to be their candidate. An independent - yes. Win the election as an independent - no problem. It is a disgrace and a stain on the image of the Republican party to have Trump as their flag-bearer.

T.
 
#27 ·
I see what you're getting at.
I think that's a fair analysis. Although, republicans in the primary resoundingly voted for him. I voted for Cruz.

He is a different bird. But it was the bird that one of the major parties wanted to go with.

The Dems could have picked Bernie, but rather chose Hillary.
 
#28 ·
Brad, you wrote.... ".....He is a different bird. But it was the bird that one of the major parties wanted to go with.....".

I would like to rephrase what you wrote to reflect the way I interpreted the situation.

"......the Republicans was the party that the different bird wanted to go with because he knew he would never be elected as an independent. The Republicans were so desperate to take the White House that they would have gone with Mickey Mouse if he had stood....."

The stain on the integrity of the Republican party is that Donald Trump does not represent Republican values, neither in his personal life, his business life nor his now political life. If we cannot trust the major parties to endorse candidates that truly represent their stated (and very long-standing) values then who can we trust?

This is a serious question because it calls into doubt the one thing that one expects from the major political parties and that is - integrity. Never, until now, have I doubted the ability of either the Republicans or the Democrats to govern, but now there is an element of doubt in my mind, which is difficult to come to terms with.

T.
 
#32 ·
Brad, you wrote.... ".....He is a different bird. But it was the bird that one of the major parties wanted to go with.....".

I would like to rephrase what you wrote to reflect the way I interpreted the situation.

"......the Republicans was the party that the different bird wanted to go with because he knew he would never be elected as an independent. The Republicans were so desperate to take the White House that they would have gone with Mickey Mouse if he had stood....."

The stain on the integrity of the Republican party is that Donald Trump does not represent Republican values, neither in his personal life, his business life nor his now political life. If we cannot trust the major parties to endorse candidates that truly represent their stated (and very long-standing) values then who can we trust?

This is a serious question because it calls into doubt the one thing that one expects from the major political parties and that is - integrity. Never, until now, have I doubted the ability of either the Republicans or the Democrats to govern, but now there is an element of doubt in my mind, which is difficult to come to terms with.

T.
I wanted to respond to this better, because you make some really good points here.

I've been following Trump for a few years now on Twitter. And I was noticing that he had a big following. A huge following. It didn't surprise me when he announced his office.

So when I thought he might have a chance, I started researching his stances and viewpoints. What I found was a guy who spent A LOT of his own money having strategists develop potential plans for healthcare, education, etc. While I didn't agree with everything 100%, I liked what I saw.

Like I stated, I didn't vote for him in the primaries. I voted for Cruz. However....by pretty large numbers, the Registered Republican voters in this country voted for Trump to be their candidate. They had several other really good candidates they could have picked; Carson and Rubio among them. But they chose Trump.

And yes...this is a contest, and the registered republicans did not want Hillary to win.

I had someone tell me one time that a preacher "can't" do both. They're either good in the pulpit and terrible at interpersonal skills; or a great people-person, and lackluster as a public speaker. :) Trump has said some really stupid and gross things. However... being a student of Humans.. LOL, I happen to have on good knowledge that everybody has done the same. They just may not have got recorded doing it. ;) I do expect Trump to learn and adapt, and realize that it's not a Reality Show; but real life and he is a Leader. I don't want him to tame his fire; just be a little more Strategic in how he says things.

It's kind of hard (for me) to really state what is "republican"; or for that matter, what is "Democrat". What is the Democratic Party right now? Obama? Hillary? Schumer? Pelosi? 9th Circuit Court of Appeals? The National Platform? I'm sure there will be a leader rise in the party soon and the party then will begin to take the shape of that individual.

So on the Republicans, what is the party?? As the leader of the Party, Trump will (for better or worse) form what the party is about; and what it represents. Right now... I would like to see it be the party that tries to bring jobs back to America, and put people back to work. Others may not agree with that, and I'll respect that. But I do like Trumps vision; and for a while, will give him a chance.
 
#35 ·
Well... I only have about 50 followers and stuff. I had to spice it up! :D LOL!!

I'm not plugged into Twitter right now. There are some friends here I like to read and follow.
 
#36 ·
Hi Brad :)

I never got into a social media site as a member. Some seem too vicious and I prefer a smaller setting.
Was at the Yahoo site. Got tired of the crazies like their 'chemtrail' insanity where the Kardasians and movie types were used as credible sources :D


John :)
 
#37 ·
Hi Brad :)

I never got into a social media site as a member. Some seem too vicious and I prefer a smaller setting.
Was at the Yahoo site. Got tired of the crazies like their 'chemtrail' insanity where the Kardasians and movie types were used as credible sources :D

John :)
I like Facebook. I just try to stay away (as much as I can) from political discussions.

And yes... there is so much junk reporting out there. Trump (in my opinion) yells wolf a bit on Fake News; but on another turn, there is merit in his point. It's so incredibly difficult to find legitimate reports on anything.

Some of the larger news sources are the worst.
 
#39 ·
Firstly, I would like to thank Brad for the well-thought-out and equally well-written Post #32....(y)

But, if all other things are ignored there is one thing that disqualifies Trump from public office. Please be patient and open-minded while I explain.

I have two sons, both now independent adults. I hope that I guided them well on many things, but there is one thing that I always implanted into their beings and that was.....

"....treat all woman with the same respect as you would expect others to treat your mother and if for some reason you find it difficult to do that with a particular woman then remove yourself from that woman's company, but do not treat her with disrespect....."

Trump's attitude to woman is not the type of role-model that we want boys and young men to emulate.

Many young people today are in need of role-models. And when their parents, teachers and others with similar status give tacit approval to persons in leadership roles then we had best be sure that the personal characteristics of those persons are the characteristics of a role-model that we want our successors to follow.

T.
 
#40 ·
Firstly, I would like to thank Brad for the well-thought-out and equally well-written Post #32....(y)

But, if all other things are ignored there is one thing that disqualifies Trump from public office. Please be patient and open-minded while I explain.

I have two sons, both now independent adults. I hope that I guided them well on many things, but there is one thing that I always implanted into their beings and that was.....

"....treat all woman with the same respect as you would expect others to treat your mother and if for some reason you find it difficult to do that with a particular woman then remove yourself from that woman's company, but do not treat her with disrespect....."

Trump's attitude to woman is not the type of role-model that we want boys and young men to emulate.

Many young people today are in need of role-models. And when their parents, teachers and others with similar status give tacit approval to persons in leadership roles then we had best be sure that the personal characteristics of those persons are the characteristics of a role-model that we want our successors to follow.

T.
The things that Trump stated on video were disgusting and rude. I do not give him a pass on them. He apologized for it, said he is working on things, and I for one will be watching him closely to make sure he is working on things.

I hate to paint with a broad brush, and if I'm wrong, anyone can correct me. :LOL::p But I think all of us have said and did things we should be ashamed of; and as such, I won't hold Trump to some higher level of morals on that.

To be intellectually fair, I also don't hold that on other candidates. Whether Obama's birth certificate was real or fake; whether he smoked weed or not; whether Bill inhaled or not; whatever Hillary did (or did not) do during Watergate hearings or whatever; what Hillary did (or did not do) 8 years before running for President; or even the women Bill chased around prior to taking office. People are human, and I am more concerned with their behaviors a few years before taking the office, and more importantly while they are in office.
********
I really like your points about role models, and is almost worthy (in my opinion) of its own discussion.

I myself have had a difficult time trying to present people (other than Christ in my religious beliefs) role models. There are some really good men and women in sports that would make good role models. However, they are behind the scenes, and you really don't hear anything about them. We just seem to hear about the loud mouths and troublemakers.
 
#44 ·
How much longer can this circus be endured...???

The best solution right now is for the Republican party to persuade Trump to resign "for personal family undisclosed reasons" and for Vice-President Mike Pence to become President.

That way the Republicans would retain control the White House for at least the next 4 years and possibly 8 years. I would also suggest that "President" Pence look to appointing a woman as his Vice-President. My choice would be the Republican Senator Susan Collins from Maine - very experienced, very popular and most importantly respected by both the Republican and Democrat parties.

A White House consisting of Mike Pence and Susan Collins is one that would restore respectability to these the two most important political appointments in the world.

T.
 
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