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Advice for a bit of a rebuild of PC

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by rocketdog1418826, Dec 27, 2018.

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  1. rocketdog1418826

    rocketdog1418826 Thread Starter

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    So, right now I am looking to upgrade my pc a bit and was coming just for a bit of advice on if it is a good plan or what anyone would choose to do differently as I don't have a ton to spend (keeping it around $500)

    current short overview
    fx 8350 cpu
    evga gtx 1070
    evga 750 watt psu
    16 gigs of ddr3
    msi board

    looking at the following components
    ryzen 5 2600x ($205 on amazon) *not interested in overclocking really*
    g. skill ripjaws v series 16gb ddr4 3000 ($105 on newegg, this may have gone up a little..)
    msi b450 gaming plus motherboard ($102 on newegg)
    nzxt h500 case ($70 on newegg)

    and I would keep current psu and 1070..

    I believe this would be good performance for not so much money, I don't need super high end I like to keep it around mid to high range gaming specs.. Just curious on your thoughts on components and if anyone would do anything different with said budget..

    Also, would be fun to piece it together myself, never touched my computers though since I used to be known to deystroy parts.. but any advice with that would be cool.. thank you
     
  2. crjdriver

    crjdriver Moderator

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    Just some advise;
    1 Ryzen boards are more picky regarding ram than intels. Check the support page for your motherboard to see if the ram you intend on purchasing is on the qvl or approved list

    2 I am no fan of msi [IMO] msi is a mid-level board mfg at best. I would really go with an asus, gigabyte, or asrock board running the x470 chipset. The board you selected is a lower end board running the old 892 realtek sound. Low end boards do not have the heavy duty capacitors, heavy duty VRs [voltage regulators] extra chipset cooling that you would find on a performance motherboard

    3 Last item. Ryzen is better now than when it was released however ryzen is still not intel where you can just slap parts together and it runs great. Ryzen takes more tuning in the bios to run well. Just as an example, I have two personal systems; 1 an intel 7600k [overclocked to 4.5gig] and a ryzen 1700x [overclocked to 3.9gig] The ryzen system literally blows the intel out of the water on any multi core benchmark however to achieve that level of performance, required manually setting cpu mulit, blck, vcore or cpu voltage, ram speed, ram voltage. While not a huge deal, it can be daunting for an inexperienced builder
     
  3. rocketdog1418826

    rocketdog1418826 Thread Starter

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    ok, now I may be second guessing putting it together myself.. Can you take a look at the following link for a motherboard? It's not a x470 but it is closer to my price range and most likely a better quality board?

    https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813145082

    If I cant post links I'm sorry, but the board is a gigabyte B450 aorus pro wifi

    thank you for the nice reply by the way
     
  4. crjdriver

    crjdriver Moderator

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    That is a better choice. At least gigabyte is a quality mfg and you have better onboard sound.
     
  5. tecknurd

    tecknurd

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    Realtek sound chips are lower quality than other sound chips. If you use the digital audio output, then doesn't matter. VIA and C-Media are better sounding than Realtek. There are certain Realtek sound chips models that sound better than others. The 892 is one of them. The ALC1220 goes for best specs.

    ASRock motherboard is 4th rate so I wouldn't put them near MSI, Gigabyte, and ASUS. I have ASUS and MSI. They both are good. You can't tell the difference. You won't know the difference between MSI B450 Gaming Plus to GIGABYTE B450 AORUS PRO WIFI, but your wallet will. Do you really need Wifi for your desktop? If not, the GIGABYTE B450 AORUS M. A micro ATX motherboard is not bad these days. They are equal quality to ATX. Though there is GIGABYTE X470 AORUS ULTRA GAMING for $120 at Newegg at this time (20181228).

    For gaming, Intel still is the best for the task for gaming if you want high FPS. Multithreaded goes to Ryzen. There are few multithreaded applications, so you are most likely using programs that are single threaded. If you are not overclocking, Intel is the way to go. If you are still considering Ryzen system, check the memory compatibility list to make sure the RAM that you picked can be clocked at the desired speed. Research is required to get the best out of Ryzen processors.

    The VRM (Voltage Regulator Module) on all boards should work fine. Some boards may do better than others. This matters if you are going for extreme overclocks and using non-practical cooling solutions like liquid nitrogen. There is no such thing as heavy duty capacitors. Using capacitors with high capacitance may help and it can also be worst to use. Motherboard manufactures knows the best capacitance combination to use with the VRM topology that they picked. Finding a good power supply will be better (low ripple and good regulation) than worrying about this. Keeping the capacitors and VRM cooled is better than worrying about what VRM and the VRM topology being used. All the VRM and capacitors are designed to be cooled by the downward force from the CPU heatsink fan. In AIO water cooling and DIY water cooling setups, a fan over the CPU is still required.
     
  6. crjdriver

    crjdriver Moderator

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    My opinion is msi is low end to mid-range. Up to you; asrock high end boards are excellent. A few years ago they [asrock] was the budget line from asus however in the last few years, they have come a long way. The asrock taichi series is right up with the asus ROG boards; I have two ryzen builds here. One is an asus ROG crosshair6 and the other is an X370 taichi. Both work great however I prefer the taichi system; less picky on overclocking settings AND you can adjust bclk feq when using Pstate overclocking. The asus board does not allow bclk overclock with Pstate; it is one or the other. The fan control is better on the asrock taichi; smoother up and down of fan speed.
    The asus ROG does have better onboard sound. Both use realtek 1220 however the asus has better software allowing you to assign a different sound profile for each game, or program.

    From personal experience, I would much rather build with asus, asrock or gigabyte over msi. Everyone has an opinion however mine is from experience. I had a number of bad boards from msi years ago and it left a very bad taste for their products [along with two failed video cards]
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2018
  7. rocketdog1418826

    rocketdog1418826 Thread Starter

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    gah okay, so I went out just to look around at a local retail store. I saw a gigabyte b450 aorus elite board which was $100. I took it home. It did not do a good job on the box saying the kind of audio it had, it said I believe it had 8 channels and thats it.. which after more research is wrong, it still has the 892 realtek sound as well. I will be returning it tomorrow no doubt.

    I like the idea of this x470 aorus ultra board at that price but how closely should I be looking at reviews here for it because it has more negative than positive there..

    This is just getting a little confusing at this point. I have seen some, from what I can tell, good deals on x370 boards, should I be looking at those as well then?

    Just an fyi I have been using an msi 970A SLI krait ed. motherboard with my fx cpu for years now and I have had zero issues with it and it also has pretty bad reviews on newegg as well. I feel as if I don't understand how people choose a board, just off of the specs? because my choices seem to weigh heavy on the reviews as well.

    If and when I find the correct motherboard for me I may ask for help reading the list of approved ram though. The board I will be returning I tried to make sense of the list of ram for it and I didn't really know what I was looking at. As for attempting intel, I just feel doing this on a budget I don't want to spend most of it on the cpu (and aren't their boards more costly as well?) and I may be wrong but ryzen just seems like for my price range I will get more longevity out of it. Plus I am a dark horse in the sense that I have been quite pleased with the fx 8350, once I got an aftermarket cooler at least heh
     
  8. crjdriver

    crjdriver Moderator

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    I never put too much faith in reviews; very often they are done by people who have no idea how to build a system. Of course they have issues or problems; they do not know what they are doing. If you see the same problem over and over again in a review, it would be worth investigating.

    If you go with an X370 board, just remember those boards do not natively support the 2xxx ryzen chips. They need a bios update to support the 2xxx chips. AMD has a program where they will send you a "Loaner" chip to flash the bios; very nice of them. There are some boards [Asus ROG] where you can flash the bios without even having a processor installed. The procedure is called bios flashback and is somewhat move involved than a simple bios update however a very nice feature. This is only available on the high end asus boards and those are running around $200 or so.

    One thing I do when deciding on what board to purchase for a build is to look at the support page. If you see bios updates released one after another with only a week or two between updates, that makes me suspect a basic design problem with the board that the mfg is trying to fix with a bios update. Bios updates to support new processors are fine however when you see two or three updates released in a months time, that does not give me a warm and fuzzy feeling for the board in question.
     
  9. managed

    managed Trusted Advisor Spam Fighter

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    I think the Ryzen 2600 is better value than the 2600X.
     
  10. rocketdog1418826

    rocketdog1418826 Thread Starter

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    I have revised my
    I have heard this but since I am not interested in overclocking I thought I would get the 2600x..
     
  11. managed

    managed Trusted Advisor Spam Fighter

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    I think the 2600 is better value even if you don't overclock it but it's your choice.
     
  12. rocketdog1418826

    rocketdog1418826 Thread Starter

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    Was now thinking of the following items

    Gigabyte b450 aorus pro wifi
    2600x
    corsair vengeance lpx 16 gb ddr4 (was found on the approved list)

    seems ok? price would be about $480 after tax and all..
     
  13. crjdriver

    crjdriver Moderator

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    Looks good to me. That memory is exactly what I have used to three ryzen builds; works flawlessly. Some of the lpx memory needs 1.35V set in the bios; not a big deal it is very easy to do.

    BTW I am using one ryzen system to type this with that memory. It overclocks well; 3000 memory running @3200.

    Go slowly on your build and if you have questions, ask first. Ryzen is not as easy as an intel build however [IMO] the performance is much better.
     
  14. tecknurd

    tecknurd

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    rocketdog1418826, why you care about what sound chip and if it has 8 channels? If you go for specs of the sound chip you usually feel disappointed how it sounds if you are an audiophile. If you are an audiophile you won't be using onboard analog sound. An audiophile listening audio from the computer will use an external DAC or an AV receiver.

    We don't know what applications or games that you run. This is required. Ryzen processors are not the best processor for all applications. It's best in some applications like Adobe Premiere and Blender. Games definitely are better on Intel i-core processors. AMD knows that Ryzen doesn't do well for gaming. Technically, the performance of Ryzen processors relates to a many-core Intel i3 processor. This means Ryzen single thread performance is lacking, but it makes up with multi-threaded. If you are OK with Intel i3 performance, Ryzen will be OK.

    How I select motherboards for myself I ask myself questions?

    What is the computer going to be used for?
    What board specs my computer case is compatible (EATX, ATX, microATX, miniITX)?
    What is the chosen processor?
    What socket does the processor require?
    How much memory are we going to use?
    Are two slots of memory OK?
    Which boards do not contain Wifi? (I despise Wifi for desktops)
    What LAN chipset is OK Intel or Realtek?
    What sound chip or will be digital audio through SPDIF or HDMI?
    How many PCIe slots and how many lanes for each slot?
    Need PCI, if so how many PCI slots?
    Are we going to overclock or in the future?
    How many storage devices are you going to use?
    Is SATA OK?
    Is NVme required?
    What is the budget for the motherboard?

    These are the few questions that I ask myself. There are more. Future proof ain't gonna happen. It's best to pick a motherboard that suits you now because around the corner something will be better. What this means stay away from motherboards with a lot of bells and whistles.

    Back in 2017, I was considering a computer upgrade from an i3-3225. I was looking into Ryzen as my upgrade. After some research, this will be a sideways upgrade instead of forward. I require a processor upgrade that has good single thread performance because most of the applications that I run are single threaded. I then looked at Intel i5-8600K and i7-8700K as the upgrade path, but they require a new motherboard and new memory. I have invested in 16 GB of RAM, so I will have that for DDR4 too. Both a Ryzen and Intel i5-8600K or i7-8700K processors will cost about $800. I still need a video card, so I settle on just a processor upgrade which is i7-3770 for $300. I bought a video card in 2018 for less than $400.

    I strongly recommend you list the applications and games that you use and will use. How long do you use these programs in a day? This information is required because again both processors are best in different areas of computing. There isn't the best processor for everything anymore.
     
  15. crjdriver

    crjdriver Moderator

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    Some insight into the intel/amd; I have both an intel 7600k [overclocked to 4.5gig] and an AMD ryzen 1700X [overclocked to 3.9gig] Both of the systems use NVME drives as the system drive, both have 16gig of ram. On a single core benchmark, the intel has a very slight advantage [not surprising since it is clocked quite a bit higher] On any multicore benchmark, there is no comparison; the intel should not even have come to the party. Cinebench cpu the ryzen system doubles the intel score. On realbench, the ryzen system outscores the intel by 40%

    With that said, that level of performance from ryzen requires careful tuning in the bios; cpu multi, bclk, vcore, ram speed, vdimm all must be set manually, then checked for stability. With an intel, you can just slap parts together and it runs well; not so much with ryzen. It has always been my opinion that ryzen is NOT for the inexperienced builder. As long as you have built a few systems and are comfortable making bios settings manually, ryzen offers incredible performance. If you have not build a system before, the best advise is to go intel. Intel builds are easier for the new builder.

    As for why I look at what sound chip is used on a motherboard, if a mfg uses an older ie cheaper sound chip, they are also using cheaper VRs, cheaper capacitors, no steel slots for the video card, etc. With a motherboard, you get what you pay for. I use high end boards in most of the builds I do for people [unless they REALLY want a budget system] I have no problems using high end boards from asus, gigabyte, or asrock. When you spend extra money on the board, you have fewer problems. ALL board mfg occasionally release a lemon however as long as you stick to a quality board mfg AND you do some research on the support page for that board, you should be fine. Stay away from any board that has a lot of bios updates released in a short period of time. If those updates are to support new processors, fine. If those update address stability issues or "Fixes" for this or that, I am VERY suspect of the board. The mfg is attempting to fix a basic design problem with updates.
     
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