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All fans but CPU fan come on, no beeps

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by wonkavision, Apr 4, 2010.

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  1. wonkavision

    wonkavision Thread Starter

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    I'm attempting to build a PC using this guide:
    http://lifehacker.com/5351485/how-to-build-a-hackintosh-with-snow-leopard-start-to-finish



    The RAM is different, but that's not an issue at this point.

    When I power on the PC, all fans but the CPU fan come on. I tried taking my Zantac 9700 fan off and using the standard cooler that came with the CPU--same.

    One tutorial I read online stated it's impossible to seat a CPU improperly. I think maybe it is possible. Most tutorials mention "pins", but I found no "pins" at all--nothing that would indicate to me whether the CPU was seated properly. There are notches cut into the side of the CPU, which correspond to the shape on the motherboard, so I at least know I put it in facing the right direction; but nothing "clicks" or even "settles in"--I'm not sure the #@#$&@ has even rested on the "pins", but I don't see any other way to put it on. There's a good degree of wiggle room in that CPU socket, so if any degree of wiggle at all could cause problems I can't imagine how anyone could avoid problems.

    The way the latch on the motherboard--sort of like a mousetrap--is constructed, you have to really push down on the #!&@#* to get it closed. I'm not sure if I'm forcing it down, like forcing too much, or if you just have to force it down because it's badly designed. This is not just--like with a PCI card--where you feel like you're pushing hard when you're really not; this is where you need a screwdriver to use as a lever because otherwise the latch just won't close.

    I think I might have used too much thermal paste (Arctic Silver), though I've found nothing online that indicates using too much thermal paste could cause the system to not boot.

    I've read that metal-on-metal contact between the motherboard and case can cause problems, but I don't see how that's possible as I used the "riser" screws that came with the case and nothing else touches.

    I've tried reseating the CPU at least three times. I've tried removing all components except the motherboard and CPU just to hear if it beeps. I've tried removing the motherboard from the case and trying to boot that way.

    Is there any way to determine what the #$*@ is wrong?
     
  2. cybersloth

    cybersloth

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    775 sokets are weird like that but you shoudent need a screwdriver to lock it in, if you do then maby the cpu is not in correctly.

    the other thing is some cpu fans dont start right away, but that's probably not your issue.

    make sure that you have connected ALL of the power connectors to your mobo.

    it's rare but sometimes new hardware is faulty, if you can get someone else to check your work.

    hope this helps
     
  3. win2kpro

    win2kpro

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    If you are having to use a screwdriver to close the load plate you are doing something very wrong. Here is a video of how the processor should be installed.

    http://www.intel.com/cd/channel/res...processor/processors/core2duo/tech/100617.htm

    If you have been forcing the load plate down with excessive force you need to check the contacts in the motherboard socket and the pads on the processor since you likely may have damaged them.
     
  4. wonkavision

    wonkavision Thread Starter

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    It's not that I had to jam it shut because it was "over-full" or wouldn't close over the CPU. The load lever itself wouldn't go back far enough, so that the "lid" couldn't shut because the load lever was in the way. It would have been the same even if there was no CPU in the socket.

    The cooler that came with the CPU didn't work as it should have either. Two of the posts became permanently stuck to the motherboard (rotating the caps had no effect--I had to trim off the protruding parts of the posts from the other side to get it off), and the other two never went in at all.

    All in all, I did everything the way it's shown in the video--except the methods shown in the video didn't work at all.

    That video also seems to indicate that the CPU should settle into place on the "pins", but I don't see how that's possible--it's not a snug fit at all. The best anyone could do is sit it in generally the right place--unless that degree of wiggle room is normal and fine.

    If I did bend the "pins" by pressing too hard on the cover either during installation or when mounting the cooler, is it possible to fix that?

    Also: Would the warranty cover this? I'm gonna see about taking the parts to a PC repair shop for testing tomorrow.
     
  5. win2kpro

    win2kpro

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    There are cut outs on the processor substrate that make it all but impossible to install the processor incorrectly.

    When the pins are down and locked the notch on the pins should be perpendicular to the heatsink. When removing the processor you turn the notch counterclockwise so the notch on the pins should be parallel to the heatsink, and lift the top of the pin UP to unlock it. If you didn't lift the top of the pins UP, you did not unlock them.

    Pages 13,14 and 15 of the Gigabyte manual have great instructions and pictorial diagrams of exactly how the processor and cooler should be installed.

    http://download.gigabyte.asia/FileList/Manual/motherboard_manual_ga-ep45-ud3p_e.pdf

    If you damaged the contacts on the processor or contacts on the socket I would guess there would be no warranty.
     
  6. wonkavision

    wonkavision Thread Starter

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    Those are indeed great instructions. The manual that came in the box, though, is completely different.

    That is how I installed the CPU.

    I think I figured out why the cover wouldn't close easily. The cooler I bought has brackets that you mount to the upper- and underside of the motherboard. The bracket prevents the lever from moving through its full range of motion. So, you need to install the CPU before attaching those brackets.

    I've inspected the CPU several times now, and I can't see any signs of physical damage. This last time I noticed some thermal paste was touching one of the gold dots, probably from my handling it so many times. I don't think thermal paste would explain the very first time it failed to power on.

    What are all the possible causes of the CPU fan not coming on and the PC not beeping?

    I tried attaching the 4-pin 12v cord from the PSU, and that just caused everything to shut down a half-second after powering on.

    I haven't yet tried clearing the CMOS. The manual indicates where the pins are for attaching a jumper, but it didn't come with a jumper. (The manual says you can use a metal object like a screwdriver instead of a jumper.) Would clearing CMOS really make a difference, though?
     
  7. win2kpro

    win2kpro

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    You need to take a "Q-Tip" wet with denatured alcohol, Zylene, Zylol, Goo-Gone Extreme, or Acetone and gently clean the pad that has the thermal compound on it. Be careful with any of these solvents since they can pose an explosive hazard if used indoors without adequate ventilation. After all the thermal compound is removed, blow the pads dry with compressed air. You may need to remove some of the cotton from the "Q-Tip" to do the cleaning. Denatured alcohol is the safest solvent to use.

    The machine will not POST or boot unless the pads are in contact with the socket contacts with at least 17 (f/lb) of pressure and the cooler is fully locked down. Before you try to lock the cooler down to the motherboard make sure the notches on the locking pins are perpendicular to the heatsink or they will not lock.

    Before cleaning the processor heatspreader and heatsink disconnect the machine from the power source and press the power on button for 20-30 seconds to discharge the residual charge in the motherboard capacitors.

    After you clean the heatsink and the processor heatspreader and apply fresh thermal compound, sit the cooler straight down on the processor heatspreader with all the pins unlocked and aligned with the holes in the motherboard. Many people find that it is easier to push down on two pins at a time diagonal from each other until they are fully down and locked, then push down on the other two pins diagonal to each other until they are down and locked. After all the pins are down and locked, go back around and push down "firmly" on each pin individually. When all the pins are down and locked there should be no movement of the cooler.

    If the machine fails to post after resetting the cooler, follow the directions in your manual for clearing CMOS.

    Before you start any part of the reinstallation you should check the processor motherboard socket and processor pads by rotating the board and processor as shown in the video to make sure there are no damaged pads or contacts. If there are damaged pads or contacts you need not go further.
     
  8. wonkavision

    wonkavision Thread Starter

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    Ah, so maybe my last tests were uninformative--I had tried it without the CPU fan clamped/screwed on.

    I'll try that tomorrow before resorting to the repair shop.
     
  9. cybersloth

    cybersloth

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    Personaly I think those Intel heatsink clips are stupid, and guess what, they still use them on the i7s and the like.

    also, and this will sound like a dumb Q but did you connect the CPU fan connector? And make sure the wires aren't caught in the fan (another stupid design).
     
  10. wonkavision

    wonkavision Thread Starter

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    I did.

    I'm going to get some denatured alcohol now, and am going to try again, making sure the cooler is clamped down and the case speaker is connected (it's possible I missed those steps on some of my later tests). If it doesn't work then, I'll try clearing the CMOS. If it doesn't work then, the PC repair shop down the street says they can test the components for $30 and get it to boot into BIOS for $47.50.

    EDIT: No luck. After cleaning the thermal paste off, I examined the CPU and socket more closely. The pins all stand vertically, but the small silver-colored--they look like little brackets or pieces of metal folded over--one of them looks like it's bent in a different direction from the others. If the PC repair shop says it's my motherboard that's bad, I might try bending that piece to make it lie like the others. Also, one of the gold pads on the CPU has a dot of black, like the gold has come off.

    I should hear back tomorrow about the condition of the components. Hopefully they can get it to POST and tell me I overlooked something simple.
     
  11. win2kpro

    win2kpro

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    Since you stated you used this tutorial to build your machine;

    http://lifehacker.com/software/hard...w-to-install-a-motherboard-and-cpu-158363.php

    I suspect you also used the author's tutorial to try to install the processor.

    Mr. Pash's tutorial is somewhat confusing since in his original configuration for the portion entitled How to Build a Hackintosh with Snow Leopard, Start to Finish in his parts list he shows the board used as a Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3P with an Intel Core 2 Quad Q9650. The board socket and the processor are LGA 775 components.

    In the link shown at his website to the tutorial by Gina Trapani if you scroll down you will see a picture of a socket 775 processor sitting on a board with the load plate open. If you click on the link next to the picture entitled Install the motherboard and CPU it takes you back to a tutorial by Mr. Pash entitled Hack Attack: How to install a motherboard and CPU the pictorials show an installation of an AMD processor with a PGA package.

    Intel hasn't used a PGA package in over 5 years. The socket 775, 1156, and 1366 are in a LGA (Land Grid Array) package. A LGA package does not use pins it uses PADS on the processor and CONTACTS in the socket.

    AMD still uses a PGA package (Pin Grid Array) which has PINS on the processor that fit into a ZIF (Zero Insertion Force) socket on the motherboard.

    LGA and PGA packages mount entirely different. I believe if Mr. Pash was indicating (from the list) that he was using a LGA package he should have shown installation of an LGA processor rather than installation of a PGA processor.

    In my opinion a first time builder trying to use that particular tutorial to build a machine is going to be thoroughly confused unless they know the difference in a LGA and PGA packaging.
     
  12. wonkavision

    wonkavision Thread Starter

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    I checked a number of tutorials. Seeing that one now, I see what they mean about "pins" locking into place. The CPU and motherboard I have aren't like that--the CPU just kind of sits on top of the pins and doesn't lock into place.

    Waiting to see what the PC repair shop says tomorrow. That one silvery metal piece that faces in a different direction on the socket may be the problem, which would clear me of any guilt. Or maybe I damaged something by applying too much force--or force in the wrong direction--by using a screwdriver as a lever.
     
  13. win2kpro

    win2kpro

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    Having to use a screwdriver as a lever to close the load plate latch indicates that the processor installation was incorrect. The processor very likely wasn't sitting flat in the socket.

    I've built quite a few socket 775 machines and after the load plate is closed it takes very little pressure to close the securing latch. I will be very surprised if both the processor and motherboard are not damaged beyond repair, but you can always hope they are not.
     
  14. wonkavision

    wonkavision Thread Starter

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    It was an incompatible PSU. They hooked up one with an 8-pin connector and it worked. At least I know it wasn't my monkey hands that mangled it. Pretty dumb, though. I went ahead and paid $87 for their 650-watt PSU. I'm gonna pick it up later today.

    EDIT: I had figured out that the load plate wouldn't close because of the bracket I installed for the CPU cooler. The latch just wasn't reaching its full range of motion. I was concerned, though, that applying too much force--or force in the wrong direction--might have damaged the CPU or socket. Since the repair shop got it to work with a new power supply, I think (hope) that isn't the case. If it just randomly starts crashing or failing to boot, I'll start worrying about this again.
     
  15. win2kpro

    win2kpro

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    Glad it was just a power supply. They are a lot cheaper than a processor.
     
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