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Backing up from Raid O to Raid 1

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by jharding, Sep 27, 2008.

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  1. jharding

    jharding Thread Starter

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    If I get RAID language incorrect please correct me. I have a new RAID O computer 9 months old. (Two hard drives and the information is striped across both hard drives each 500GB. So the information is spread across both drives. I did not understand this when I bought it. Shortly therafter one of the Raid drives would read that an error occurred when I rebooted. Two months later the second RAID drive also says that an error has occurred. It is still bootable, so far, as they put the operating system in a separate partition.

    1) I want to back up the RAID 0 system. (To a MyBook 1 T size)
    2) I want to transfer the C drive (configured RAID 0) to a second new computer (with Raid 1 Mirror drive set up) They both have Vista Ultimate for OS.
    3) After 1 and 2 I plan to make the first computer a RAID 1 also.

    I have had several unsuccessful back up attempts and I think one successful one with Acronis True Image. I say, I think because it said that it was successful, but I had several failures with the same program that were aborted.

    I have as other back up software: NovaStor Backup, Western Digital back up, Norton 360, Paragon, all of which were unsuccessful. Some stopped early on, while others worked until the last 3-5 minutes and they stopped. I want a "second successful backup", just in case and then successful transfer of the files to the new computer because when I turn the first computer into a RAID 0 system I will lose all of the data on those hard drives I am told. I am now trying SyncBackPro at this moment.

    I also have MIGO, Alohabob PC Backup for XP, and Genie. Others I should try?
    Any other suggestions?

    If I use the Windows Vista (Ultimate) Transfer of files and programs program, will it normally successfully transfer what I am trying to back up?

    A year ago, when I went from XP to Vista, with that transfer I had some problems and had to run it several times as some web urls stored were too long for it to transfer successfully and had to be truncated. I then had to reinstall all or most of the major programs but the data was sucessfully copyed.

    I am assuming that a "Mirror Image" copy (Say using Acronis or another Image program assuming they completed successsfully) from RAID 0 to RAID 1 would not work properly? Is that true? or Not?

    Thank you for any and all help you can provide.
     
  2. crjdriver

    crjdriver Moderator

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    You can do this; in fact I have transferred from raid to non-raid and non-raid to raid many times.

    The first problem I see is what type of controller. Is this a real raid card we are working with or an onboard motherboard type raid? Next you post you want to move your install to a second computer. In most cases this is NOT going to work. Unless the raid controller is the same AND the motherboard chipset the same.

    As far as using acronis, I have used this many many times on all types of raid controllers; ie highpoint, promise, intel, etc and never had a problem.

    Here is how I would do this task.
    1 Make an image of your array using acronis. Store image on an external drive, network, etc.
    2 Restart the system and enter the raid card bios. Delete your current array and create the raid1 array. Do not attempt to partition or format.
    3 Boot with the acronis boot CD and restore the image to the array. You now have a raid1 array.

    Note if you used 2X500gig drives in raid0 and more than 500gig was actually used, you will need larger drives. If you used the above drives and you only were using say 300gig, it will work fine with the existing drives.
     
  3. jharding

    jharding Thread Starter

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    :) Hi crjdriver
    Computers are both made by SYSTEMAX often sold via tiger Direct. My reading is that there are no RAID CARDS but rather the Onboard BIOS is configured to determine the RAID TYPE. The chipSets are slightly different.
    1) Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.4 GHZ 8M Processor (and two 500GB drives using RAID 0 equaling 1 T of space) I have 569 GB free out of the 914 GB that are available on that RAID 0 drive system.
    2) New Computer has: Intel Core 2 Quad Q6700 2.66 GHZ 8M Processor (with RAID 1 Mirror Raid) for a total usable 914 GB free available space.
    3) I am backing up on USB Westen Digital MyBook 1T.

    I am going to try to get a second successful backup of my drive using Acronis True Image "just in case" as once I shift to Raid 1 the data are gone forever. Is that a little OCD? Four times I tried Acronis before it did not complete successfully, so just trying to be sure. I am a Clinical Psychologist so I accept the diagnosis in this specific instance :).

    Thanks for you help. It may be a couple of days before I get it tried so that I can get that second successful backup, and as my wife needs to use the computers as an active college professor. Thanks again for the feedback. I will post as I proceed. Jim Harding
     
  4. crjdriver

    crjdriver Moderator

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    I would think either something is wrong or you are not doing the image/backup correctly. I make image files with acronis at least 5~6 times per week. I have never had one not complete correctly.

    What version of acronis are you using?

    Next if you have only 569 free on your raid0 array, I would definitely get larger drives. Trying to install 430gig or so on to a 500gig array [which is what it would be in raid1] is really asking for a problem.

    If you are attempting to go with raid1 as a backup plan, remember raid of any type is NOT a backup plan. It is hardware redundant only. Raid1, 01, 5, etc does nothing for a virus, malware, corrupted driver install, etc.
     
  5. jharding

    jharding Thread Starter

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    Hi Crjdiver,
    1) Acronis 11 works fine on my old computer all the time. That is why I thought it must be the partitions that were going bad on the newer CPU. As BIOS boots it says with a green printer that it can boot fine. Then it says in RED color that 0 disk and 1 disk both have errors occurring without speficying what the errors are. Six months ago with only 0 disk error in red I was able to use Acronis 10 successfuly. Yes I have 2 1 TB hard drives waiting to be installed. Thank you for the RAIDs are not backups. It made it even clearer to me why my regular use of full backup and differential backups to my USB WD MyBook 1TB is critical. Thanks for the helpful comments.


    2) I have written Acronis the following:

    Can I use Acronis DiskDirector 10 to help correct A Raid 0 Partition problem?

    I have a SYSTEMAX computer that is fairly new. It has a RAID 0 setup. That stripes information across two hard drives. I have 2 500GB hard drives.
    Specifically 1 TB SATA Performance RAID 0 (500GB x2)
    4 GB Memory (1GB x4)
    Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.4 Ghz 8M Processor
    I use Vista Ultimate. I have a 1TB MyBook for USB backup.

    The hard drives are configures as such:
    Local Disk( C:) Total size is 914 and 568 is free
    STATICDATA (D:) Total size is 124 MB and 123 is free
    ImageBackup (E:) Total size is 14.9 GB and it 14.9 GB is free

    and I have:
    1TB MyBook for USB backup.

    On Boot up the BIOS screen shows green that the drive is bootable.
    However, the 0 drive and the 1 drive both show RED that they are having a problem of
    undetermined origin. Perhaps the partitions have developed problems? I seem to have access to my data, but I do have problems backing up the computer. Several backup programs have stopped after anywhere from 3 to 5 minutes after they start to withing 3 minutes of completion of the backup. Very frustrating.

    I have windows update set to download and not install or reboot.

    Acronis True Image 11 failed to back up 5 times and then claimed to have succeeded once.
    NovaStor back up never completes and reboots the computer.
    Microsoft Back up doesn't complete and reboots.
    SyncBackupPro doesn't complete and reboots.
    Norton 360 doesn't complete.
    Paragon BackUp doesn't complete.
    Western Digital My BackUp doesn't complete

    DiskDirector shows the C drive to have a red flag. If I use the recover function is it possible for it to succeed since drive C is a RAID 0 drive? I want to back up the C drive and save the data and it contains much important information. If I can successfully do that then I want to change that computer from RAID 0 TO RAID 1 (mirror drive). I have plenty of space on the drives to do that, and have two 1TB drives I will use to do that.

    Any asistance that you can provide is greatly appreciated.
    Jim (James) Harding
     
  6. crjdriver

    crjdriver Moderator

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    It sounds like you have a drive problem. I would download the drive maker's diagnostic and run that on both drives. If one or both of the raid drives have errors, I would NOT trust an image file regardless of what software made the image.

    You can attempt a restore of the image file once you install the new drives and create the array however I would not be surprised if you end up having to do a clean install.
     
  7. jharding

    jharding Thread Starter

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    Hi Crjdriver,
    I will proceed to get the hard drive diagnostic program for the Hard drives as you recommended.

    I was unable to obtain a second successful backup with Acronis True Image 11. I took the first one that said that it was successful that was on my WD My Book 1TB drive and installed it on my new computer. When I tried to restore files it claimed that I hadn't located the last file that had been saved (I checked all of them and I used the last one in time and at the bottom of the list. It suggested that otherwise the data was corrupt.

    I was afraid to try to image restore as going from Raid 0 to RAID 1 I thought might corrupt some of the current operating system on the new computer or mess up in another way. any thoughts on that?

    I also twice, tried the Windows Easy Transfer program (Vista Ultimate to Vista Ultimate) using A New Belkin USB cable specifically for that purpose. It didn't seem to complete collecting the files as the name of the file or folder it suggested it was collecting stopped changing. Also there was an icon of the USB cable in the upper right corner of the frame with a red X and the light had stopped flashing on the Belkin USB cable.

    Not sure what to do next. Use the Windows Easy Transfer program to put the files on a
    1 TB WD MYBOOK and then later transfer it to the new comuter?

    I can replace all of the major software programs. I was trying to save my Data (of which I have a lot of pictures, word files, adobe and excell files and any personal settings that were possible. I was going to just set aside the "problem drives" and clean install two 1TB drives in RAID 1 formation. That is going to be my wife's computer. I had hoped to put the backup up data on my computer already configured as RAID 1 with 2 1TB drives. If I could ever get the data off the other two old drives then I would use them as back ups for specific things like pictures, etc.

    Thanks for your gracious help. I won't get a much done during the work as I work as a psychologist and this is an extra long week with on call and hospital calls. Hve a great week ahead. I will keep this thread posted as to how things go.
    Jim Harding
     
  8. crjdriver

    crjdriver Moderator

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    If the system with the problem drives is booting, why not just copy whatever data you want; ie pics, work files, etc to your external drive? You can now clean install and copy whatever you want back.

    I am still wondering why you are using raid? Unless there is a real reason to use raid, I would just install your drives as non-raid using either ahci or standard ide as the setting for the sata controller.
     
  9. jharding

    jharding Thread Starter

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    :) 1. As I previously mentioned, I had attempted to back up the C: drive to a WD 1 TB external USB drive at lease a dozen times with 5 or six top rated programs. Either they stopped early on or 5 minutes or so before completing. The one that did complete, Acronis, when I tried to put it on the new computer the software said that the image was corrupt.

    2 .I also tried to transfer files using MS Easy transfer of files using a Belkin cable for that purpose on more than a dozen occasions and it would never really get started.

    3. In the meantime I thought that maybe if I installed the new Vista SP1 that then everything would be OK. Wrong idea. The third state never installed and just kept looping. So I have just completed an uninstall of SP1 using restore which seems to have worked well.

    4. Why am I using RAID? The first Systemax computer came that way. I did not make a purposeful selection of it. When the RAID started to go bad, even though I still have access to my files so far (the boot part is green as in good shape) , first the first disk and then the second one developed problems. They suggested that I back everything up and then go to a RAID 1 (Miror) instead. It seemed reasonable to me at that time. You have helped me to question that choice. I have still not been successful at backing the old cpu up.

    5. I have just purchased PCMover (Laplink Cable, which looks like my Belkin cable, with Laplink's transfer Software) and am going to try that next.

    6. You have taught me that RAID 1 is really not a backup. Perhaps the only thing that it helps is if your first drive goes bad in a hardware sense, then you have a second copy. But you have also pointed out that if there are viruses, malware or other bad things that go wrong the problem is simply duplicated on the second drive. Because I have actually lost several hard drives in the last 10 years in the hardware sense (I was always able to make them a D drive and get my information off of them) I will probably keep the RAID 1 but I will also set up my computers to automatically add back up at least weekly and perhaps daily. I really appreciate you comments and will post again on how things go.
    Jim Harding
     
  10. jharding

    jharding Thread Starter

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    :) PCMover was about half way through transferring files from my old computer with Raid 0 to new computer with Raid 1 when my computer robooted again. This has been a frequent problem over the last two weeks as I have been unable to do a successful backup or transfer of files so that I can transfer them onto my new computer.

    Two weeks ago I set windows update to download and not automatically reboot. I just checked and those settings are still in place. I have also unplugged the Cables from both computers that go to the internet so that hopefully a program won't download something and force a reboot.

    Any other ways of preventing a computer from rebooting when one is either backing it up or transferring files to the newer computer and it may take 12 to 20 hours of time.

    Thanks for any help from anyone out there.
    Jim Harding
     
  11. crjdriver

    crjdriver Moderator

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    About the only suggestions I have would be;

    1 Remove the checkmark from automatically restart on failure/error. This will result in a bsod and may give you some clue as to what is causing the reboot problem.

    2 Have you attempted to transfer the data files when in safe mode with networking?
     
  12. jharding

    jharding Thread Starter

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    :) Hi,
    1. Safe mode I did not with networking but I did with clean boot and PCMover and cable
    they provided. again it just stopped. PCMover they say does not work with Safe Mode.
    2. I unchecked the reboot and am currently trying Acronis all over. So far so good.
    Six hours remaining.
    3. I wonder if it is possible that that setting may have allowed the success or failure of many of the other attempts?
    __________________________________________________________________________

    3. Yesterday I was trying to make PCMover work and here is the result.

    PCMover - 10-4-08 RE: Serial # PCMENRT-4B0187-030 (I faxed a copy of this to your order department in Kirkland, Washington 90833 as I am not sure my msg got through: 425-952-6002) It also occurred after 20 minutes when I used my Linksys network instead of the Linksys cable. HELP!

    Dear Sir,
    1. This is a repetitive problem. I have been trying to back up this computer for several days.
    2. You have another error note sent to you about an hour ago. I have two computers less than a year old. Systemax computers from Tiger Direct and Ohio. I have worked with computers for over twenty years and have done everything but change a motherboad. I have done similiar transfers as recently as a year ago from an XP computer to my older Vista Ultimate Systemax computer
    3. I am trying to transfer everything from my older CPU (which will become my wife's CPU ) to my new one.
    4. Both computers have Windows Vista Ultimate installed on them as well as my new purchase of PCMover which included a cable.
    5. In order to reduce possible problems I have taken the following steps on both computers:
    a. Internet connections are temporarily disconnected.
    b. I am doing a clean boot per the article on your web site.
    c. I have set windows update to download and not install even though the internet is disconnected.
    d. I have set in the advanced settings to Not reboot when an error is found.
    e. ***At first it was the old computer that would reboot or stop. Now I keep getting these messages on my new computer that an error occcurre and to send you this information. I have now spend about 30 hours trying to make this transfer work.
    f. I also removed all external back up drives all of which connect using USB. Two are Western digital 1 TB drives.
    g. I have a Linksys network for connecting to two TIVO's, for my cable Internet, and to share printers but I unplugged it for this operation.
    h. While I have Norton 360 installed, Spyware Doctor, etc, The have been removed with the clean boot.
    i. I have probably transferred, I hope successfully, a little over 150 GB with about another 150 to go. I have on the first computer a RAID 0 and on the second a RAID 1 system. Each shows me I have Drives C, D, and E on each computer.

    After I sent the previous message I wasn't sure if it went through because I received a page that said there had been a problem and it would not let me see the outcome of my sending the message to tech support.
    Also when I tried to send the second message it also did not go through. Although it recognizes my e-mail address it would not accept my password and I couldn't acccess the part successfully that would send my pasword back to me.

    Any help that you can provide is greatly appreciated.
    James Harding,
     
  13. crjdriver

    crjdriver Moderator

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    Are you using a network or what to backup with acronis? 6hr is a very long time. Even with a lot of data, I would think 1hr max to make an image file. The only exception would be something like a wireless network, then the time would make sense.
     
  14. crjdriver

    crjdriver Moderator

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    Have you ever ran the drive diagnostic that you download from whoever made the drives; is WD, Seagate, etc?

    If the drives have problems, IMO you are wasting your time attempting to image or backup.
     
  15. jharding

    jharding Thread Starter

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    Hi crjdriver,
    Thanks for being there.
    1. I have run the drive diagnostics for the 2 seagate drives and they do have some problems. I don't have that exact data at my fingertips. I accept that the Image programs including Acronis would not properly work under those conditions.
    2. I had tried PCMover from Laplink with cable supplied. I tried it the cable way, the network way and the WD USB 1TB external hard drive way and all failed. I may alter the setting I used and redo it using the WD USB back up unit.
    3. Using net working with PCMover I moved about one third of the data after several trys. It compares the two and doesn't recopy what is on the New computer.
    4. The entire old computer has like 381 GB on it but I don't need to copy the operating system nor MS Office.
    5. If I hear you correctly transferring through a wireless network is slower than directly or to a back up device. Actually each of the computers is directly wired into the Linksys setup I have.
    6. Network Magic suggests that the network is working fine.
    7. I have had two blue screens this morning. It forced me going into Safe Mode and from there I will try to go to Select Mode which I was often using before in doing the backups.

    FYI:
    Systemax Tech Support
    I am unable to use any of my boot disks to boot into this computer for backup, recovery, etc. I have Spotmau.com disk, Knoppix 5.1.1, and others. For about a month I have been trying to back up my first Systemax computer (Serial # 106570551 Order # P90477390101) without success. You have previous e-mails from me about that. Both computers have Vista Ultra installed.
    To simplify:
    1. I have used Acronis True Image Home, Windows Easy Transfer of Files, PC Mover with supplied cable (I did it the cable way, the network way, and the backup to WD 1TB drive all of which failed) , 2Bright Sparks, Backup4all Professional4, Backup Wolf, Cobian Backup, Genie-Soft, GoodSync V6, Norton 360 backup, NovaBackup, Paragon Drive Backup 9 Professional, PC Backup, Roxio Easy Media Creator 10, Western Digital’s Backup software that I purchased and comes in trial form with their 1TB USB External Hard Drive WD,
    2. I unselected automatic reboot as that was one of the things that was happening to stop the backups.
    3. On the boot screen it shows green for booting up. However both Hard drive 0 and 1 are red that there is a problem. I began trying to back up the computer as soon as it was returned to me from you company for installation of a 4th cooling fan (I had installed the one your company sent me, they just didn’t last long.)
    4. Using the Seagate analysis of the drives it does show the drives to have problems with some of the tests.
    5. Sometimes the problem happens in the first 5 minutes of back up. Sometimes like today, using Acronis Image program, it happened in the last 20 minutes of the back of when 94 % was backed up. It has been pointed out to me today that if the drives are bad that an image program can’t work properly. How can we access the report that was made on the computer problem as it shut down so we can examine it?
    6. I have spent about 40 hours trying to get a backup or get it transferred to my new computer and nothing is working. I am a Clinical Psychologist and this has gotten me very behind on my job and paperwork. I am exhausted. It seems like I have exhausted everything. I usually am at work from 8 to 8 (by the time I also get the paper work done) but am trying to cut back. On select days I am home earlier. Unfortunately, these are my home computers.
    7. I thought if I could bypass windows with a Knoppix, or similar program from a bootable disk that I might be able to succeed that way.
    8. Any other non-images programs that you would suggest?
    9. Thanks for your help.
     
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