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Backup Solution

Discussion in 'Networking' started by matt_12511, Jul 28, 2006.

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  1. matt_12511

    matt_12511 Thread Starter

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    Hi everyone,

    I just contacted CDW about a backup solution for the following setup:

    They quoted me all this:

    He said I need 3 agents (1st 3 on the list). What are these agents and do I really NEED them? Also I said we are only using about 60 of our 400GB and that the tape drive did not need to do the whole 400. We can get by for the next few years with a 200-300GB drive.

    We are a small non-profit organization so while a backup is important so is every penny. How can I get this price down to $1500 TOTAL and still have a working, reliable backup system?

    Thanks,

    Matt
     
  2. JohnWill

    JohnWill Retired Moderator

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    Hell, I'd just buy three 300gig USB external disks and use them in a round-robin backup scheme. Simple, and you'll spend more like $500 for the whole thing.
     
  3. StumpedTechy

    StumpedTechy

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    Okay he is trying to sell you Veritas products while I like them and thats what I usually suggest I know there are cheaper alternatives out there.

    Actually the agents really do help with backups. since your running specialized software like the SQL and whatnot. And the fact your indicating 1 backup drive the agents bring down the services and allow for proper backup of files that would otherwise be locked as well as allow them to backup to a single server so this way you run the backup in one centralized location being the - QUANTUM 200/400GB LT02 INT SCSI BLK - $1529

    Really in all his specs do meet what you requested from him.

    Like Johnwill you can backup to drives but remember this your saying you want 3 servers backed up and then the question also becomes do you need copies? Do you need redundancy and to have anything offsite? This would then require at least 4 drives? Also would you trust all your media to 4 drives only?

    Ultimately you need to look at a number of factors -
    1) Do you need to backup data off the individual PC's? If yes how do you get them from a PC that may not be on at night to be backed up to a server?
    2) What kind of rentention do you require? The more days you require the more media you need.
    3) What kind of media are you comfortable with? Do you need more than 1 format?
    4) What kind of services do these servers run? Do you require special software to backup that server or does a low cost backup solution work?
     
  4. matt_12511

    matt_12511 Thread Starter

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    Thanks StumpedTechy for a very informative response. And thankyou JohnWill for showing me a cheaper option.

    Are the cheaper alternatives to Veritas closer to $500 (and $1000 for the 160-320GB tape drive) to keep me in the area of $1500?

    I think in this case we really need a backup that can be taken offsite. I would only take a copy off site on a bi-weekly basis (so the max I'd ever lose was two weeks data).

    I do not NEED to backup individual workstations. It is something that would be cool but it is not a high priority.

    My CRM/SQL Server DB is not all that big 1GB (I think?).

    If the round robin thing could be set to backup the CRM/SQL Server software nightly and the other two weekly then I could take a few hours once a month to backup to a DVD (or several) and take them offsite.

    I believe it is possible to write a script for SQL Server 2000 telling it to do a backup procedure every night and save the file to the external HD. Anyone know where I could find more info on that?

    How does this sound?

    Thanks,

    Matt
     
  5. JohnWill

    JohnWill Retired Moderator

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    Well, those USB drives are portable, I have a number of clients that use them that way. You can use something as simple as Acronis True Image Server to backup the whole shooting match to an image on the external drive. If you have multiple drives, you just take one home for a week, then swap it out for another one. I'd forget the DVD option, that will be a giant PITA!
     
  6. O111111O

    O111111O

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    John et all are correct. If you're looking for a "cheap" backup, don't use LTO, or any tape. Tape has issues with cycle time (the amount of times you write/read). You really need at least 22 tapes a year for full backup, and you should really replace those tapes every year if you want to ensure that you can restore from them.

    Do what John suggest, and what you came up with.

    If you rotate external USB drives, and ensure that they connect as the same drive letter every time, you can backup pretty much everything.

    MS SQL has an Enterprise manager (A gui, built in) that gives you a backup wizard, and allows you to dump all of your database and log exports to another file system. Do this on a minimum of once a week (You want this to keep your log size down). You can also use native Windows system backup to get system state, registry, etc and dump that to another drive letter.

    Just keep in mind, when you're trying to save money with backups that you do get what you pay for. Make sure that you test restore at least twice a year.
     
  7. JohnWill

    JohnWill Retired Moderator

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    Another nice thing about hard disk backup is there's less of a chance of not being able to restore. :D
     
  8. O111111O

    O111111O

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    Yeah, we engineer the datacenter backups to stage to disk. 400TB of SATA disk acting as virtual tape (EMC Clariion Data Library), which then exports to LTO3 once a month. Still too expensive to keep upwards of 60 months worth of data strictly on disk.

    Tape is still more reliable and cheaper for long term storage, as long as the cycle time is kept down. We've found that tapes cycled more than 200 times per year have serious tendancy to break down.
     
  9. JohnWill

    JohnWill Retired Moderator

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    For the use in question here, I suspect that he doesn't need a datacenter level of backup. :)
     
  10. rolandk10

    rolandk10

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    I recently hooked up a LaCie Two Big 500gb RAID unit in a small office. It's fairly portable, stands alone and has redundant backup. I paid 480 for it.
     
  11. StumpedTechy

    StumpedTechy

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    Backup in a raid solution isn't a true "backup" its just a failover in case something happens to not work right on one of the disks. If something is deleted its deleted whereever it resides.

    I really don't think of raid units as a backup and I try to ensure others don't think that way either.
     
  12. matt_12511

    matt_12511 Thread Starter

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    Ok so here is my new backup solution:

    I'll buy a new 400GB internal drive for my Windows 2003 server. I'll use that as my share folder (from another post - I am having problems with the external drive).

    Every week I will backup the Windows 2003 server onto one of two external HD using Windows backup wizard (right?). I will alternate HDs each week so that the most I'll lose is a weeks data (unless the problem goes unnoticed for more than 2 weeks).

    I have a REV drive that I can use to backup 30/90 GB and I can use that on the old Windows 2000 Server. The REV drive has software and I can set it to backup weekly and rotate my 6 disks.

    I set up Enterprise Manager to run a backup daily on the CRM database and then burn a copy of the backup to a CDROM each week. Store them for 6 months, while keeping 1 each quarter for a permanent record.

    Incidently, how do you set up the SQL Server to do a daily backup? Is it through the SQL Server Agent? I have it set to do that currently but the Agent keeps stopping and then not restarting.

    How does this sound for a small office backup plan?

    Thanks,

    Matt
     
  13. JohnWill

    JohnWill Retired Moderator

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    I'd use something like the server version of Acronis True Image to make an image backup of the machine. I know I wouldn't trust the basic Windows backup utility. :)
     
  14. O111111O

    O111111O

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    Datacenter or not, keeping cycle time for tapes low is a good idea.

    One more thing to consider, not too sure about recent tests - but the polymer used in writable CD's isn't known to last > 5 years.

    Lastly, SQL server agent is what's needed for scheduled jobs. You want this to run table reoptimization every once in a while, as well. (Will speed up database by reindexing/removing rows marked for deletion, etc.)

    Look in event viewer, I'm sure windows will have some sort of complaint about the agent. May need to create a system account for it.
     
  15. StumpedTechy

    StumpedTechy

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    Just as a clarification I had a side conversation with a forum member and wanted to expound upon something -

    Basically indicating that if the raid solution is used just for backup and not live data you would infact have 2 copies if its running mirrored. When I talk about raid and live data that is when you won't get any backup or redundancy.

    Just getting the proper facts out there.
     
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