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Clarity Of Vision

Discussion in 'Random Discussion' started by JewisHeritage, Dec 15, 2001.

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  1. eggplant43

    eggplant43 A True Heart and Soul - Gone But Never Forgotten

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  2. Mafud

    Mafud

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    Modern "Israel" is a nation of (mostly) white Europeans governing a land which they have no right to. All arguments against Arafat only show the real lack of knowledge of too many Europeans about who are the rightful heirs to Palestine: white, thus alien Jews from eastern Europe or, brown and black peoples indigenous to Palestine?
    Israel's so-called "right to exist" is in the same vein as whites "right to exist" in the United States: mockingly professed by a constitution but enfored by America's military.
    How can European Jews be heirs to a land where they had never existed prior to 1920? Because they, remenants of a vanished "kingdom" of non-descript eastern Europeans, hammered from one side by Muslims and on the other by Christians, confessed to Judaism in 740a.d. and thus by fiat, took over Judaism?
    That at one time, more than 98 1/2% of all living "Jews" were Europeans living in Russia and eastern Europe, mostly Poland. The remainder of the worlds Jews being Arabs and Africans, lived in and around the Horn of Africa and regions of the so-called "Middleast." Does anyone find it strange that the brown and black Jews lived all over the so-called Middle-east" but nearly none of them lived in or around Palestine?
    If the other Arab and African "Jews", all of them native to the region, didn't live in Palestine and furthermore, made no claims to the territory, how then did or could the Europeans "Jews" rightfully make such a claim? Because of their interpretations of the dubious notions in the Old Testatment?
    If the Europeans were the "real" Jews, how did they, as a group, turn white, when all Jews indigenous to Palestine and the rest of the "Middle-east" are brown and black? Or do the Europeans fall back on the old "Lost tribe of Israel" gag?

    The arguments for Israel from its European allies, to include the United States, fly in the face of one hard reality: when the United States and her "allies" manage to destroy first Al Qaeda, then Sadam Hussien, then Arafat, disposing of, in their minds anyway, the greatest "threat to peace" in the Middleast, America will abandon Israel, confident that should Israel fall, America could manage the territory herself and thus, insure its reliance on cheap oil, the ultimate goal anyway.
    Why would America need Israel if an American insured peace came down over the region?
    "Israel" only continues to exist because America needs and wants a "buffer" state in the Middleast. With its other strategic ally and former "buffer state" South Africa out of the picture, what better way to insure that the turmoil continue except by underwriting a white, "terrorist" state in the middle of the region?
    Yes, Israel came into existence through years of subversive terrorism and maintains its power and authority through terrorism. A Palestinian blows himself and a few Jews to pieces, Israel goes on a killing spree which continues until Israel's" boss, the United States, tells Israel they should halt and resume "peace" negotiations.

    When "white " Israel is gone, there will be peace in the Middle-east; not before.
     
  3. JewisHeritage

    JewisHeritage Thread Starter

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    Welcome Mafud, my brother, to Tech Guy :). I see that you are an expert not only in American History, but European History, Middle Eastern History, Christianity, Judaism, American Politics, South African Politics, The Old Testament, The New Testament, African History & last but not least .... have figured out not only Americas "Final Solution For Israel & South Africa" but also the "Peace Plan For The Middle East"! By gosh, what on earth are you doing at Tech Guy?;)

    This is a grand place to start! Well Mafud, by virtue of your reasoning, I think that all Americans, with the exception of the American Indians, should vacate the United States Of America, immediately!! I say this because your argument about European Jews can just as easily be applied to 99.9% of all "White Americans" .... they are all immigrants HERE, from all over the world including Europe, UK, Africa, Middle East, India, etc., etc.!

    When I posted this thread I made one promise to myself .... I won't get into any religious confrontations! So, you must excuse me Mafud, you will not bait into a discussion of "Old or New Testaments" nor shall I address what you refer to as the "Lost tribe of Israel" gag.

    Is this what you think the USA & Britian is doing in Afghanistan??Trying to destroy the greatest threat to peace in the Middle East?? I would guess it has something much more to do with "Trying To Destroy The Greatest Threat To The CIVILIZED WORLD & DEMOCRACY"!!! We could care less what these uncivilized, barbaric, stoneaged, backwards thinking fanatical scum do to each other! We hope that they kill each other & save us the bother! If it wasn't for the oil that sits on their land, these specimans of god knows what, would be walking around the desert with their camels making pita bread on stone ovens!

    Do me a favor Mafud, if you want to post something of substance that can be discussed, post FACTS WITH LINKS TO SUPPORT YOUR POSITIONS!!

    ....because if you have the B*A*L*L*S to post this.....
    ....you don't have the slightest "clue" as to what is going down in the Middle East or in America!
     
  4. Dark Star

    Dark Star

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    Mafud,

    "America could manage the territory herself and thus, insure its reliance on cheap oil, the ultimate goal anyway."

    Oh pease gimme a break...will you?
    We have enough well capped and on hold in the state of TEXAS alone to fuel this nations needs till the year 3000 and yes then there is ALASKA also, you know that little chunk of land we purcahased from the former USSR for a whopping 7.5 millon bucks or next to nothing as it were.
    They still can't determine how much oil is there......

    I really do not think cheap oil plays a part in this thread and topic discussion.
    BTW, I just filled up at .97 centavos per el gallon, and this is while we've been using ludicrous ammounts of oil while we bomb the s**t out of the "bad guys"

    We're moving fast and soon we'll all be into the year 2002 God willing.....we've got alternative fuel sources ie. electric, solar, wind etc. and we've not even realized or derived full benefits of those yet.

    "Send lawyers, guns and money the s**t has hit the fan."

    DS
     
  5. JewisHeritage

    JewisHeritage Thread Starter

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    Dark Duck! Always have to get the last word in:) What do you do? Go to see who's online....see which thread I am replying to & wait 3 minutes to post?:mad:


    I can't go ..... but I have volunteered Mulder:D



    ***EDIT: DD....Don't think we're in Kansas anymore! LMAO!
     
  6. Dark Star

    Dark Star

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    JH,

    "Go to see who's online....see which thread I am replying to ..."

    I taught you that little trick pal.....

    Also I'm not sure who you paid off to get your licks in before I did but I suspect Mulder has something to do with it. :p ;)

    DS
     
  7. eggplant43

    eggplant43 A True Heart and Soul - Gone But Never Forgotten

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    I saw the post from Mr. Mafud today and thought about responding, but I was pressed for time, and wanted to see what you'd have to say. As usual, you came through with flying colors.

    It is my hope that Mr. Mafud will return and start a dialog, as opposed to the diatribe he deposited here today. I could be wrong, but it seems that people that present these kinds of unsubstantiated statements as fact are hit and run artists who like to spin sh... in a blender with the lid off, and are never heard from again.

    I'm prepared to be proven wrong.
     
  8. Mafud

    Mafud

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    I was born and rasied in America.

    My education is American: BA (2), MA (2, 1 of them with 30 plus hours toward my PhD).
    But it seems that even here on this forum, among people who have at least a modicrum of education, the venal nature of whites make them denigrate others who disagree with them.

    What whites (Europeans, including Israelis and South Africans) so easily forget is their own smashing of cultures and whole civilizations to get what whites want and wanted. Whatever gets in your way, you either smash or in my case, denigrate, all without engaging in the dialog you propose. How can or do you expect others, at least non-whites, to make their points if all you can see is your own goals and aspirations? White don't, won't allow a parallax view on the history of act they themselves committed. No, instead, you lash out me for saying what is the truth: What ordinary whites have done to Arabs and Muslims in this country since September 11 is evident at least to us, your new victims, you newly ceated N****rs. On the surface, things look calm but there is in America a seething hatred festering in the souls of Americans, as if every Muslim had committed the acts of one group. Your hatreds burst to the surface in your posts here, the snideness, the smugness of your whiteness making you brave.

    What I posted is a true reiteration of the savagery committed by white upon the rest of the world. Nothing has changed: you only want peace at your terms. You only want world history, as written by and committed by whites upon others.
    There is a saying that goes something like: "smashing the mirror that reflects your ugliness will not make you whole" and lashing out at me for telling the truth won't diminish the damage done to others by whites.

    When whites (by any or whatever name) leave Isreal, there will be "peace"; not before.
     
  9. eggplant43

    eggplant43 A True Heart and Soul - Gone But Never Forgotten

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    Dear Mr. Mafud, I'm glad that you're interested in having a dialog here, and not just ranting as you have done thus far. I'm surprised that someone with your educational background would present such gross generalizations as fact. If you truly hope to have a meaningful dialog, I encourage you to make specific, verifiable statements backed by facts. Please cite your references, preferably with links, so that we may all peruse the same information.

    You indict everyone here as being white, beneath your dignity, and not to be trusted. How do you know the race of the people here? Do you know something I don't know? I believe that as long as you define the world as only white/and not white without considering any other factors, that you are doomed to failure in your arguments. The world is too complex a place to divide it into two entities, and present all discussions on that basis.

    You sound bitter, and full of hatred for all whites, and you may have ample justification for those feelings. But if you can not even allow any white person to have any good, caring, compassionate aspects to them, then there is no need for further discussion, as your mind is made up, and closed. I would say the same thing to any white person who characterized *ALL* people of color, or all Africans, Muslims etc. with one broad brush.

    Do you feel there are any grounds for dialog here, or do you wish to just continue bashing whites? By the way, what color, sex, and nationality am I? I'll be going to bed soon, but look forward to hearing from you soon.
     
  10. JewisHeritage

    JewisHeritage Thread Starter

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    Hi Mafud:) I am glad to see you returned. I am going to ignore the posts by Dark Star & Eggplant, their arguments are with you & that is between the three of you. I would much rather keep "our discourse" on our own track since you chose to start your initial post by quoting me.

    There is no such word as modicrum .... you meant modicum (a small amount; bit). In any event, I did not denigrate your post ... I asked for factual links to back what you posted so that I could discuss it in an intelligent manner with you.

    Now you my friend, wish to divide the world into black versus white ... this is the same goal as bin laden ... to divide the world into Muslim against Non-Muslim! You go as far as to use an expression for people of color .... that is considered a profanity & insult to them ..... for one as educated as yourself I find that quite venal within itself!

    Regarding this.....
    I need only address this nonsense with one word: HOLOCAUST


    (Israel NOT Isreal).....Anyway.....It will never happen My Friend! These Two People...will fight until the bitter end and there are none left standing alive....That I PROMISE YOU, Mafud! They each have their own agendas and their own time tables ..... But there is a major difference between these people .... One of them do not "hide behind or use as a scapegoat "religion" to fulfill their murder .... albeit they both murder"....

    I saved this part for a reason.....
    Here is an article I read today....It really makes one stop & wonder, Mafud, who is smashing the mirror that reflects the image they don't like reflecting back at them.......


    How Bad Government Feeds Rage
    How To Quell Mideast Anger: Educate Women For A Start
    FORTUNE
    Monday, December 24, 2001

    U.S. forces may be dethroning the Taliban, but it's clear that Middle Eastern rage still simmers. All over the region, parents are naming infants Osama and conspiracy theories circulate that the CIA (or maybe the Mossad) was behind the Sept. 11 attacks. Why is so much of the Muslim world so edgy, so angry, so dangerously frustrated?

    Poverty is not the answer. The Sept. 11 hijackers were not poor, and many poor places, like Bangladesh or Mongolia, are not terrorist-ridden. There must be something more--and the U.N.'s Human Development Report 2001 suggests what that might be. The report includes something called the human development index, a figure derived from dozens of different factors--literacy, life expectancy, water quality, and so on. As you'd expect, Western Europe, Canada, and the U.S. are at the top of the list; the bottom is populated by various sub-Saharan hellholes. Things get more interesting when the U.N. examines how various countries are performing relative to their wealth. Countries like Sri Lanka, Trinidad and Tobago, Costa Rica, and Vietnam all are significantly better off than their incomes would indicate. But the opposite is true for much of the Muslim world, including Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Egypt, Libya, Syria, and Iran. (Jordan and Israel run slightly ahead of the game, as does Indonesia, the country with the world's largest Muslim population; the U.S. runs slightly behind.)

    Consider, for example, Sri Lanka and Egypt. The two countries have almost exactly the same GDP per head ($3,400), but Sri Lanka--despite a long and bloody civil war--is considerably more literate and longer-lived. Or compare Vietnam and Pakistan, which each have a GDP of a little less than $2,000. More than 90% of Vietnamese adults are literate, compared with 45% of Pakistanis; a Vietnamese woman can expect to live to 70, a Pakistani to die before she reaches 60. Costa Ricans make 25% less money than Saudis but live five years longer.

    In short, much of the Muslim world is failing to deliver the goods. And this goes deep. Of 161 countries in the index of economic freedom, which looks at things like protectionism and barriers to starting a business, Saudi Arabia came in 71st, Pakistan 100th, and Egypt 110th. (Jordan was 61st and Israel 49th). In terms of political freedom, on a scale of one to ten, with ten being complete tyranny, Freedom House rated Saudi Arabia at 7.7, Pakistan at 7.5, Egypt at 6.5, Jordan at 4.4, and Israel at 1.2. The same pattern holds true for indexes that measure government corruption and press freedom.

    It's easy, indeed habitual, for Western leftists and Muslim newspapers to hold up poverty, McDonald's, and Israel as the "root causes" of all that has gone wrong in the Muslim world for the past 50 years. Please. You don't have to be rich or love Israel to teach people to read, to run a reasonably honest public sector, or to allow some discussion of the government's actions: Just look at Jordan. But when such elemental decencies are lacking, frustration builds. And without the accountability provided by elections and a free press, sometimes it boils over.

    To deal with Muslim anger, then, responsible governments should give up blaming Tel Aviv or Western imperialism and try freedom, clean government, economic openness, and education--and yes, that means for girls too. Do that for 50 years, and the real "root causes" will disappear!


    Looking forward to hearing from you My Friend;)
     
  11. eggplant43

    eggplant43 A True Heart and Soul - Gone But Never Forgotten

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    A very interesting article you posted. It sure makes a lot of sense to me. I hope the three of us can be here discussing the success of this strategy 50 years from now, as our great grandchildren sit on our laps in a far different world than we share today.
     
  12. columbo

    columbo

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    Hi Everybody,

    Kudos JH, on keeping things civil :). I know how hard it can be to remain diplomatic in responding to what are obviously quite opinionated and angry postings.
    (C'mon though, "modicrum" "modicum"? You've never made a typo in your life? :D )

    I think it's unfortunate that Mafud's posts came across as so angry and one-sided, as it robs the opinions of a seemingly well-educated man of their credibility. I think that this article might better sum up some of his arguments, without spewing hostility and bitterness at those who read it.

    http://www.addameer.org/september2000/opinion/shamir.html

    This was written by Israel Shamir (a popular Jewish writer). I doubt that it will change anyone's opinion on the conflict, but if it makes you stop and think, then it has accomplished something.

    My apologies (and pity) to anyone that is not familiar with the story of Don Quixote. Shamir uses characters from the story to help illustrate his point.

    Let's keep the information flowing. ;)


    Columbo (AKA- The Man of La Mancha) :D

    P.S- Eggplant, I know that you weren't asking me......but I'd guess white male (the whole "Bruce" thing gave it away), and I'll guess Scottish. Am I close? :confused: ;)
     
  13. eggplant43

    eggplant43 A True Heart and Soul - Gone But Never Forgotten

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    What a wonderful article. I hope it receives wide circulation. It tells a truth we all need to hear.

    I will hold off on answering your question for now. It was a rhetorical question, designed to make a point to Mr. Mafud.

    I agree with you that JH intorduces an aura of civility that is so necessary, and appreciated in this arena.
     
  14. JewisHeritage

    JewisHeritage Thread Starter

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    Eggplant & Columbo:
    When I was at Johns Hopkins, they had an underground library with very tight security .... among the many "treasures" there, was an original copy of the writings of Nostradamus .... the above quote brought a "deja vu" to my fading memory of the innocence of those years....I have not been to Israel since 1980, but that article captures its beauty ..... it is verisimilitude.

    There are a multitude of angles regarding the situation in the Middle East ... a kaleidoscope of misunderstandings and a melting pot of every religion on this planet ... Was there ever a "Status Quo" there?

    "Next attempt could cause the nuclear war"..... With China's reaction to Bush's announcement last week regarding the US plans on Nuclear Warheads .... coupled with rogue nations possessing Nuclear Capabilities ..... throw into that mix the many fanatical "crazies" ..... you just might be on the road to annihilation:(
     
  15. eggplant43

    eggplant43 A True Heart and Soul - Gone But Never Forgotten

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    That's why it's incumbent upon all of us to keep this dialog going. This is something we just can't walk away from. We must stare reality in the eye, tell the truth, and know our hearts.
     
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