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Clarity Of Vision

Discussion in 'Random Discussion' started by JewisHeritage, Dec 15, 2001.

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  1. eggplant43

    eggplant43 A True Heart and Soul - Gone But Never Forgotten

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    You make my point!

    If you allow the rhetoric, while quietly pointing out your disagreement, and staing why, it can potentially have more impact on those that are reading, than attacking the messenger. Ultimately, those who pontificate upon nothing expose themselves, and end up making the opposite point, it just requires patience.

    I would use the example of Jerry Falwell, and Pat Robertson who recently exposed themselves as the bigots, and anti-Christians that they truly are. The more they spoke, and explained, the worst they looked.;)
     
  2. GoneForNow

    GoneForNow

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    eggplant43----As I recall from the thread JH requested information to back up the statements that Jews in Israel are not the real Jews of Israel. The response was more rhetoric about Eurocentric views (whatever the hell that means). So rather then ask a second time JH cites various studies done on DNA that establishes the Jews of East European countries orginally came from the Middle East. Is a counterargument posted? No, there is a little tizzy fit and I'm taking my ball and I'm not going to play here anymore. There was no need for patience the otherside decided not to participate anymore.

    If I call you a coward (you're not I'm just making an example) and you respond by saying: "tell me why?" And I respond that "you're a coward". There isn't a sharing of viewpoints or a debate; it just the spouting of rhetoric. Unfortunately, there are 2 or 3 members of this Forum who do this on a rather frequent basis. It's why I stayed out of this thread to begin with.

    Now on the other hand there are members, DN jumps to mind, who actually back up their statements with cites. Makes for a much more interesting (and yes sometimes heated) debate. I love when DN hits the Forum I always know its going to be fun, intellectually honest and a hoot.
     
  3. SavvyLady

    SavvyLady

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    <img src="http://forums.techguy.org/attachment.php?postid=310837">
     
  4. SavvyLady

    SavvyLady

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    eggplant you can type a smile anywhere ... : ) put the two together :) or : D :D or : ( :(
     
  5. eggplant43

    eggplant43 A True Heart and Soul - Gone But Never Forgotten

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  6. Mulderator

    Mulderator

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    egg said:

    Your theory does not hold true if the pontificator engages in poltically correct rhetoric. You can find far more stark examples of baseless and factless rhetoric then you got from Falwell and Robertson, but so long as its "politically correct" rhetoric, the pontificator will not be seriously challenged on it because many are afraid to take a viewpoint, even one that common sense tells just about everyone is correct, if that viewpoint is not politically correct.
     
  7. JewisHeritage

    JewisHeritage Thread Starter

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    If you post anything that Mulder disagrees with ... it won't be taken seriously because by Mulder's standards what you have posted is not "Politically Correct" but rather ..... baseless and factless rhetoric ;)



    Bruce: Interesting article ..... I would hope Mafud would read it!:)
     
  8. eggplant43

    eggplant43 A True Heart and Soul - Gone But Never Forgotten

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    "Your theory does not hold true if the pontificator engages in poltically correct rhetoric. You can find far more stark examples of baseless and factless rhetoric then you got from Falwell and Robertson, but so long as its "politically correct" rhetoric, the pontificator will not be seriously challenged on it because many are afraid to take a viewpoint, even one that common sense tells just about everyone is correct, if that viewpoint is not politically correct."


    I recall mentioning "The Emperor Has No Clothes" somewhere in this discussion. There is no better BS detector than using common sense and observation.

    I recently heard Chris Matthews on Larry King Live say that he just cuts them off when they're using talking points. He described the assistants coming up during breaks with more talking points.

    What I respect is people who shoot from the hip, are intellectually consistent, and most important work toward resolution, rather than just putting other viewpoints down.

    For me this is not about entertainment, as many in the media, and the talking heads try to make it, it is about the world of ideas, and the future for all of us.

    You say: "You can find far more stark examples of baseless and factless rhetoric then you got from Falwell and Robertson," I'd like to know who you had in mind. I was simply using them as an example because what they did is fairly recent, and so egregious. If you followed the incident at all, you would know that Jerry Falwell recanted to the nation publicly, and then his son, on their web site basically recanted everything. To me this is the height of hypocrisy. Why didn't Mr. Falwell stand up for what he said, and what he believed?
     
  9. Mulderator

    Mulderator

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    Jesse Jackson. I don't think I've ever heard more rhetoric from anyone else in my life (he'd almost surely agree with everything Mafud and Kirkland had to say in this thread).


    By the way, Chris Mathews if pretty good at cutting through the rhetoric, but Bill O'Reilly is much better. But to see my point, all you need do is watch one of those political debate programs--you'll see about as much rhetoric and PC absurdity as you can tolerate.
     
  10. Mulderator

    Mulderator

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    You almost got it right, JH:

    ;)
     
  11. eggplant43

    eggplant43 A True Heart and Soul - Gone But Never Forgotten

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    I'll grant you Jesse Jackson "the Poet, Who Know's It" has plenty of "politically correct" rhetoric. However, that does not absolve Falwell and Robertson's "right-wing/fundamentalist" "politically correct" rhetoric from being scrutinized for what it is,some how you do not address this at all. I'd call what you're doing a deflection.

    "I'll take your Falwell and Robertson, and give you a Jesse Jackson."

    This is not productive of dialog, it just provides a competition of who is right, who wins/who looses. The real issue is that there are those who would assume to speak for you and me. They do not speak for me, I speak for me. How about you?

    As far as O'Reilly is concerned, it's hard to listen to *content*, when it is delivered in a pakage of *contempt*.

    Again, I will say that I am not impressed with criticism, Criticism does not solve problems, it only identifies them. My interest is in resolution. Real solutions to real problems. In other words, I'm always looking for a win/win outcome.
     
  12. eggplant43

    eggplant43 A True Heart and Soul - Gone But Never Forgotten

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  13. Mulderator

    Mulderator

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    I don't know why I need to address it. Your original post was not an invitation to debate the right or wrong about what Falwell or Roberton said, but to use them as examples that given enough time, people who speak with rhetoric are exposed for what they are. I merely pointed out that Falwell and Robertson were exposed so quickly because what they said was NOT politically correct and as such, will be scutinized very closely. And don't get me wrong, I don't agree anything they said.

    But in any event, I did not mean to make it into a debate, I was merely pointing out that rhetoric is not always easy to expose and is used very persuasively and artfully by many today, especially the print media.
     
  14. eggplant43

    eggplant43 A True Heart and Soul - Gone But Never Forgotten

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    You're right, point taken. Guess I shouldn't have tried to post so late (for me). I should have read the whole post before responding. I'll be more thorough next time.
     
  15. Mulderator

    Mulderator

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    God--I just hear that so often ;)
     
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