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Files keep getting fragmented just after running Speed Disk.

Discussion in 'Earlier Versions of Windows' started by hewee, Dec 15, 2001.

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  1. hewee

    hewee Thread Starter

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    Files keep getting fragmented just after running Speed Disk.

    Ok I have a new PC AMD XP1800, 256 DDR memory, 64 DDR video card, Windows 98 with a 40 GB drive.
    C: is 30 GB and D: is 10 GB.

    I have Norton System Works 2.0.
    As you can see from the image the blue are files that are being modified all the time.
    I have had Speed Disk Alarm go off on me 4 times in the last 24 hours and the senors show 99% or only 1% fragmented.
    But when I look at the fragmention report I have lots and lots of files that are 80% fragmented.

    Is there something going on with Windows 98 and Norton.?
    I have not changed anything and am use the default setting as I have alway done on my old PC with 95a.
    I have never had any trouble on the old PC.

    I know you can do a Customize Optimization with Speed Disk and wonder if I should.

    All that blue you see are from PhotoImpact 6 (295 MB, 5494 files) and 7 (323 MB, 7095 files). It is changing the order of the files on me all the time I guess and making all the fragmention.
    I think every one of the many many things that use one of the many files for each of the effect etc. are alway being moved by Speed Disk for the Optimization.

    Is windows 98 also doing anything to the files?

    Are there any setting that I need turned on or off or what every.
    I mean you got Speed Disk moving files around but if windows is doing the samething but in another order the files are getting bounced all over my Drive.
     

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  2. WhitPhil

    WhitPhil Gone but never forgotten Trusted Advisor

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    The first thing to do is stop running SystemWorks in the background. It is a drain on the system. Just run it's components (win/disk doctor, Speedisk) periodically.

    As for the fragmentation, see the link at the bottom about how Speedisk calculates fragmentation.

    The thing to do with Speedisk, is to use the customize option and specify your large infrequently used files and directories (like graphics and MP3's), and move them to the end of the disk. Once moved and defragged, they will seldom need it again, unless you add or delete files often.

    http://www.symantec.com/techsupp/bulletin/archive/nu/08nu.html#32

    Also, since from your other thread, it appears you keep a lot of files in the recycle bin, see the item on this page about the bins.

    http://service2.symantec.com/SUPPOR...dc889552dfaf20cd882565bc0072eac3?OpenDocument
     
  3. hewee

    hewee Thread Starter

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    WhitPhil ,

    Thanks for the links. I will look at them later when I am more a weak.

    Also I am not sure just how to customize option.
    There are so many ways I feel lost.

    By the way from what you see in the image here.

    http://forums.techguy.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=296712
    It's not the recycle bin but files that are Norton Protect. I can have a Empty recycle bin but have files that are still recoverable with Norton Unearse because I have Norton Protect Enable.
    Funny if I look at the files tru Unearse they have the real names and are not all numbered like that.
    It must be and index.
     
  4. WhitPhil

    WhitPhil Gone but never forgotten Trusted Advisor

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    It is Norton Protect, but they are still deleted files. I don't run that portion of Norton, but I would expect those files won't be defragged.
    The names have to be different in the recycle bin (and Norton Protect), in order to allow you the capability to delete a file with the same name more than once, and STILL be able to recover each of them, if required.

    Customize?

    Run Speedisk
    Properties Button > Options
    Customize Button
    Files at End tab

    Then, to move the folder \mymusic\mp3 to the end of the drive, enter
    \mymusic\mp3\*\*

    in the File Specification field

    to move the entire folder, enter
    \mymusic\*\*

    OK Button

    Save Button

    (you can also select Optimize Swapfile and this will move it to the front of the disk)
     
  5. Wino

    Wino

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    Hey hewee,

    If you have your Speedisk to alarm at 99%, that's too high. Set it to alarm at 97 or 98%. After defrag and at 100%, and you do anything, it will go to 99%. If set at 97 or 98, you should not have an alarm for a very good while.

    Do the optimization option to place the swap file at beginning of drive.

    Your screen picture of Speed Disk looks normal to me.
     
  6. hewee

    hewee Thread Starter

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    I know that image was Norton Protect but it is that way on many other files also. I can reboot and defrag my PC and after it's done and it does it's scanning go back to speeddisk and lool at the fragmention report and see 100's and 100's of files that are fragmented.
    They seen to be the same ones also.
    But how am I getting them like that on the D: drive also if nothing is running on the drive?

    I never seen this happen on my old PC that had 95a fat 16 on it. Is it because of 98 or Fat32 that I see this?

    I have it so it Optimize Swapfile and it is at the beginning of drive and I went in and set a minmium of 512 MB and no maxmium.

    I know I can set the alarm lower so it will not go off but it will not stop the files from getting fragmented.

    So do you guys have the same thing happen on you PC's?

    Anyhow Wino good to see you hear. You can post your own Avatar here when you get a 100 post.
    I know your use the same one as at Stevehp site.
    :cool:
     
  7. WhitPhil

    WhitPhil Gone but never forgotten Trusted Advisor

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    Do you have applications installed on d:?
    Are you running Taskmon?

    If so, then the fragmentation is most likely normal. As part of the Optimization Programs in both Speedisk and Defrag, the files being monitored by Taskmon will (can) end up being left in a fragmented state. This is part of the optimization. The fragments are in the sequence on the disk, that they are loaded when you run that particular application.
     
  8. hewee

    hewee Thread Starter

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    No SystemWorks is on the C: drive.

    I don't about Taskmon. How do I find out?
    If so do I need it?

    Sorry for not knowing much about windows 98 but I am learning. So I did look and I do have Taskmon running.
     
  9. WhitPhil

    WhitPhil Gone but never forgotten Trusted Advisor

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    The fragmentation is most likely being caused by TaskMon.

    This program monitors the startup of every program you run, and keeps that information in files under \windows\Applog (a hidden directory).
    When Defrag or Speedisk runs, AND you have the option set to Optimize programs, they use this info to do the optimization. And as I indicated, this will result in intentionally fragmented files.

    On the fast PCs and harddrives these days, it is questionable whether you could notice the speedup gain as a result of doing this.

    You can decide not to run TaskMon by unselecting it in MSCONFIG. If you do this, you should delete all the files under \applog. If you ever decide to try running it again, reselect it, and the files will be recreated.

    By not optimizing files, you should notice Speedisk running more quickly since it isn't shuffling files around at the front of the drive.
     
  10. hewee

    hewee Thread Starter

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    WhitPhil,

    Wow you think Norton Speed disk would of disable TaskMon if they are at war over the file order. I looked at all the windows and norton help files and found nothing on TaskMon.

    I did find an option to check a box to "Replace ScanDisk with Norton DiskDoctor" the help on it says "Select this option to use Norton Disk Doctor instead of Windows Scan Disk when Windows encounters a disk problem."

    I checked the box but what you said about TaskMon it will still be running if I don't unselecting it in MSCONFIG. Right

    I have by the way installed Norton System Works 2001 and many option are added to it over the older Norton System Works 2.0 I had.

    I have not yet had the Speed Disk Alarm go off but the same files do seam to get fragmented.

    I just found out I losted the Norton Unzip I had been using for the last 5 years to unzip files.
    So what is any good for zip files.
     
  11. Wino

    Wino

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  12. WhitPhil

    WhitPhil Gone but never forgotten Trusted Advisor

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    "Wow you think Norton Speed disk would of disable TaskMon if they are at war over the file order. "

    What did I say to make you think there was a conflict??

    Taskmon is taking note of what happens when an application starts. The EXE file location, dlls, etc. This info is noted under \applog.
    When either Defrag or Speedisk runs AND the option to optimize programs is used, it reads the info from \applog to figure out the best way to arrange these files in order to make them start faster. AND, in doing so, the resulting files will be fragmented, which is absolutely normal.

    "option to check a box to "Replace ScanDisk with Norton DiskDoctor"
    If you select this, DiskDoctor will run after a bad shutdown instead of Scandisk.

    If you run MSCONFIG, you will see TaskMon selected. Whether you continue to run it, is your choice. See my comments above. You could UNselect it, delete the \applog files, defrag. Then run your pc for a while. If you think you are seeing programs starting slow, re-select TaskMon. The \applog files will be recreated again.

    "I have not yet had the Speed Disk Alarm go off "
    As I said earlier, UNselect WinDoctor or SystemDoctor from running all the time. It consumes a fair portion of your machine.
    Just run it's components on a regular basis. Having it running in the background all the time, buys you nothing.

    And yes, Winzip is a good program to use.
     
  13. hewee

    hewee Thread Starter

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    "What did I say to make you think there was a conflict??"

    You did not say anything. I just knew something was not right and a program like Norton Speed disk you would think if it is running along with TaskMon and they both want things but in there own other that the one would diable the other or ask you if you want to.

    So I will go to MSCONFIG and uncheck TaskMon to see how things work out.

    Yea I could also "UNselect WinDoctor or SystemDoctor from running all the time."
    Guess I just do so because it gets installed by default to run all the time so I have just left it that way.

    Thank for you help and will post back in a couple days.

    Ok Winzip it is WhitPhil and Wino.
     
  14. WhitPhil

    WhitPhil Gone but never forgotten Trusted Advisor

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    "I just knew something was not right and a program like Norton Speed disk you would think if it is running along with TaskMon and they both want things but in there own other that the one would diable the other or ask you if you want to. "

    I don't know how to explain it any better, but there is nothing abnormal in what is occuring!!(BTW this relationship also occurs with Windows defrag)

    Is it because I have said there will be unfragmented files?? If so, there is nothing wrong with this. If this is it, then post again and I will give an example.
     
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