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G3 froze during 10.3.7 update - now won't boot

Discussion in 'Apple Mac' started by krec, Feb 5, 2005.

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  1. krec

    krec Thread Starter

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    Hi everyone...

    This is my first post here and I sure hope someone can help!

    I just tried to upgrade to OS X 10.3.7 via my cable modem. During the process the upgrade froze at 50% of the installation. Now I am dead in the water. Can't boot into safe mode. Can't boot from a cd.

    The computer never goes past the gray screen with the Apple logo... the spinning pizza goes round and round and never stops!

    I have a G3 B&W 450 with 256 mg ram, 60 gig hard drive. I have tried to boot many different ways by holding down various keys. I can't even boot from my original OS X 10.3.5 install cd.

    I've zapped the pram - and now I get the gray screen with the apple for a second then I get the "NO" symbol... the round circle with the slash through it. And everything stops there! I've switched my CDRW to an original Apple CD drive - just on the off chance that my CDRW was not a bootable drive - still can't boot from the CD drive. I have two external SCSI drives - with older operating systems - can't boot from them - OS too old for the G3.

    I've also tried to boot up every which way with everything disconnected but the monitor, mouse and keyboard. Still nothing.

    I don't know what to do next and would appreciate any suggestion.

    Thanks for any help.

    krec
     
  2. MSM Hobbes

    MSM Hobbes

    Joined:
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    krec, welcome! sorry, but just glancing at both of your posts, and since this one was done prior to the one regarding RAM issues, do you think that your RAM may be bad, causing the issue here? Again, I've just spead-read both posts [its late, my brain is starting to frizzle... ;)], so was just curious... :)
     
  3. krec

    krec Thread Starter

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    Thanks for your reply - I know what you mean about brain frizzle - I have it right now!

    Since I read your post last, I tried switching the Ram - didn't help.

    I have tried to boot into open firmware - to force it to boot from the CDRom drive - no go - every command I type at the open firmware promt gives me the message "unknown word" - can't seem to be able to do anything in there. I tried the commands...

    reset-rvram
    set-defaults
    reset-all

    cd-boot

    none of them worked. However shut-down did work!

    I've also pulled the battery - just for fun.

    I even tried changing the ribbon cable to the drive - didn't help.

    I've tried booting with only the hard drive plugged in - unplugged the other ide cable that goes out to the cd and zip - didn't help.

    Are there other things on the logic board besides ram that I can check? I hate to pronounce it dead yet.

    Any ideas would be appreciated.

    krec
     
  4. twotugs

    twotugs

    Joined:
    May 13, 2003
    Messages:
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    Just a thought, and it probably is a bust as you don't seem to be able to boot from CD, but maybe try a Linux live CD (to see if it works). Here's a list posted by LwdSquashman a couple of days ago:

    http://www.frozentech.com/content/livecd.php?sort=&showonly=PowerPC

    ...and some resources on how to burn the disk:

    http://www.linuxiso.org/viewdoc.php/howtoburn.html

    This may help too, if you haven't seen it:

    http://www.jacsoft.co.nz/Tech_Notes/Mac_Keys.shtml

    Good luck. Both iMacs I've worked with have frustrated the heck out of me, and one had to go to to an Apple retailer for repair (not cheap).
     
  5. MSY-Houston

    MSY-Houston

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2004
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    309
    Have you tried booting up from an OS9 System cd?

    If you have one, and before you try to bootup, unplug everything from the CPU, including the monitor, keyboard and mouse. Plug everything back in and be ready to insert the cd, hold the C key down as soon as you hit the restart button.

    If successful with booting up, immediately trash OSX files (I'd get them all since the install was halfway done). Reboot with the OSX cd and do a Clean System Install (Options during setup) to make sure you got all of the old or half-installed files.

    When you go to get software updates (especially large ones), download the "stuffed" system update from the Apple support section of their site (not though auto Software Update) to your hard disk. Disconnect from the net. Unstuff the file(s) and run the installer.

    See if you've got a Restore cd and/or a HD Tookit cd (should have come with OSX). Run HD Tookit.

    Good luck.
     
  6. krec

    krec Thread Starter

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    Thanks for your suggestions! I don't have OS 9 - only 10.3.5 - retail full install but the computer won't recognize the cd drive. I've tried unplugging everything - I've removed the scsi card, unplugged the other ide drives and still can't boot from cd or hard drive - I've tried booting with the only things plugged in are the monitor and keyboard. I've tried to boot from the cd from within open firmware... nothing will work. I can't boot from a cd or the hard drive. I've switched ram around - the only difference with a different stick of ram is that instead of the spinning pizza that never stops - I get the folder with the blinking question mark that never stops! I plugged in another drive that was formatted all zeros - and couldn't even access the OS install in the cd drive to initiate it. I've switched the cd rom drive from the cdrw drive that needed patchburn to burn cds (when the computer was operational) back to an original apple cd reader on the off chance that the cdrw was not a bootable drive - but that drive didn't work either - the apple drive should be bootable, yes? It powers up and spins like it wants to read the disk but nothing appears on the monitor.

    So that's where I am right now and what I've tried.

    Just for fun I just purchased a used hard drive (very small and inexpensive) on ebay that has been formatted and has OS 9 and OS 10.2 on it. The drive is guaranteed not DOA and has a 30 day warrantee. I'm anxious to see if I can boot with that drive in the G3. If I can boot from the small drive with OS 9 or the OS 10.2 on it, maybe I can set the screwed up drive as a slave drive and reformat the screwed up drive.

    One thing I don't know... when I put the small drive in the compute - what keys do I hold down to select either the OS 9 or 10.2??? If I don't hold anything down, what will it boot up into?

    I can't think of anything else to try - and I'm open and grateful for any and all suggestions!

    krec
     
  7. MSY-Houston

    MSY-Houston

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    I got to thinking about this. You may have a dead power supply. If the hard drive, CD drive appear to be trying to work, and nothing shows up on the monitor but you're pretty sure it's working, it could be the power supply isn't giving everything enough juice to work.
     
  8. krec

    krec Thread Starter

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    hmmmm ... that's an interesting idea. Is there a way to test the power supply? Are there things I can unplug from the power supply that will let more juice get to the hard drive - just to test the theory?

    Are they expensive to replace? Maybe I'll try that if my very small, inexpensive drive with OS 9 and OS 10.2 doesn't work.

    Where should I shop for a power supply? I need to shop on line - There's not an Apple store within 100 miles of me!

    Thanks for giving this problem of mine some thought. I have been losing so much sleep on this trying to come up with things to try!!!

    Thanks again,
    krec
     
  9. MSY-Houston

    MSY-Houston

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2004
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    You might want to contact an authorized Apple service provider. I'm not sure where you are located, but I know of someone in Houston who is honest and does sell parts in addition to making repairs. His name is Shane Utley, and he's the owner of MacTronics (Houston and Austin, Texas areas). In fact, on his web site, he posts phone numbers and an email address for users to contact him.

    email: [email protected]
    web site: http://www.applerepair.com/
    Austin: 512-445-9699
    Houston: 713-791-9699

    If it were me, I'd email MacTronics and see if he thinks it's hardware. If he doesn't have something in stock, he'll probably recommend where you can get something for the best price.

    Good luck.

    Martha
     
  10. krec

    krec Thread Starter

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    Thanks... I'll think about that. I am in Upstate NY and am about 100 miles from the nearest CompUSA and I'm not sure where any other authorized Apple service providers are.

    I think I'll try the things I've mentioned above before giving up! And I'm really not sure if the G3 is worth putting alot of money in it. I'll have to give that some thought. When I'm finally ready to give up the fight, I'll email MacTronics for their recommendation. Thanks for the contact.

    Thanks for all of your help - and please post again if you have any other ideas.

    krec
     
  11. MSY-Houston

    MSY-Houston

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  12. krec

    krec Thread Starter

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    Feb 5, 2005
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    OK - I'm making progress.

    Was able to borrow a small (6 gig) dirve with OS 9.2 and 10.2.8 on it. Switched it with the drive that the OS update froze on and ....

    IT WORKS!!! So all of my problems must be from a very corrupted hard drive caused by the OS X 10.3.7 update.

    Then, I put in my new ram ... beautiful... the old ram and the new ram are playing nicely together - have 512 now.

    So, now I just need to figure out how to get this 60 gig hard drive reformatted - remember...

    - with the 60 gig in the G3 it will not boot from the cd drive or any other way, so I can't use my system 10.3.5 install cd to fix the drive.

    - also the creep that sold me this G3 on ebay told me the G3 was Revision 2 - must be because the processor says 450 - don't they usually put those in Rev. 2 machines? So, since I have Rev. 1 (U2 - not 402 on the chip) I don't have multiple hard drive capability.

    So... should I purchase an IDE controller card, plug in the two drives... boot from the 6 gig and then try to reformat the 60 gig???

    Does that sound like it will work?

    Or.... could I remove the Atapi Zip drive and put my second drive in that slot... and go from there. Just a thought ...

    I am really not sure how to handle this next step.

    Suggestions are welcomed!

    krec
     
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