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Grub, Acronis and HP

Discussion in 'Linux and Unix' started by fanders, Feb 3, 2007.

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  1. fanders

    fanders Thread Starter

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    Feb 3, 2007
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    Hello, this is my first post. I am running Win XP SP2 and have just installed Simply Mepis as a dual boot. Uses Grub bootloader. As a result, I no longer have the option during boot to access Acronis 7. I also cannot get my old HP OfficeJet 630 all in one to work in Mepis. Any helpful suggestions are welcome.
    Thanks,
    Frank
     
  2. saikee

    saikee

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2004
    Messages:
    3,887
    First of all a big Welcome to the forum.

    I am answering this post so that you don't feel lonely, not that I have a solution.

    I feel your question may be a mixture of several things.

    First if Mepis boots then Grub's duty is accomplished. Thus there is no necessity to relate Grub to your problem because it only confuses others.

    I don't know what Acronis 7.1 is except it is just a Windows-based back-up software for cloning partition and disk. You make it sound like an operating system that Grub does not boot for you. It is possible Acronis has its own boot loader which wants to take over the boot sector currently occupied by Grub. If this is the case then you have to make an executive decision which boot loader you wish to command the MBR. Theoretically a boot loader in MBR can boot Grub residing elsewhere in the hard disk but since I can't afford AcronisI 7.1 and wouldn't know how to advise how to use its boot loader.

    There could be another technical problem though that if Acronis 7.1 works as Norton Ghost, which is its major competitor, may need to access the boot sector to store its code during the cloning operation. Norton Ghost needs to exit from the host system Windows, reboots automatically back as DrDos to carry out the cloning operation. I known such operation may come into conflict if the boot sector is occupied by a Linux boot loader.

    Even if I don't use Acronis I expect functionally whatever Acronis can do Linux can do 99% if not more by the "dd" command in Linux. I certainly have never had a need to go back to Norton Ghost after I entened Linux and I do back up disks over 400Gb and with the maximum 63 partitions all filled with different operating systems inside. Personally my view is people spending money for Acronis and Ghost because they don't know about Linux. dd is so flexible that you can control the hard disk DMA to slow down the speed to read a dying disk. Its cloning speed is also hard to matched by the commercial software because it only reads "1" and "0" from one hard disk/partition and write the same on the other. Thus even Linux officially without special program does not write on NTFS partition every Linux can cloned XP and Vista and systems foreign to itself like BSD and Solaris.

    Thus you may tell us in what part your Acronis does not perform or needed when Mepis is introduced into the PC.

    I could not answer the HP officejet problem either except that is more to do with the generic drivers available inside Mepis and has nothing to do with the boot loader Grub.
     
  3. fanders

    fanders Thread Starter

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    Thanks for the welcome and the reply. A little searching and I have found a Linux driver for the old hp. As to Acronis; during boot it would give me the option (by hitting F11) before a Windows boot. I still can access it by booting from cd.

    Regards,

    Frank
     
  4. rebif

    rebif

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
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    Hi fanders,

    I'm getting ready to install Acronis 10 pretty soon so I was reading up on how their Acronis OS Selector worked. According to some other websites the OS Selector boot loader is supposed to be a good one. However if you wanted to purchase it separately it would cost you around $49.99. OK to get to the point. What happened is Simply Mepis installed GRUB over top of Acronis' boot loader. I found this FAQ page on the Acronis site.

    http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing/products/osselector/faq.html

    What they say is "you have installed the Linux loader (GRUB or Lilo) into MBR, so the Acronis OS Selector 8.0 MBR was erased. You must boot from the Acronis OS Selector 8.0 bootable media and select the "Activate" option."

    Those instructions may be for a slightly newer version that what you have but maybe it'll be the same as selecting "Activate" on yours or something similar. It might be possible to edit GRUB to accomplish what you like but I have no clue as to what would need to be added to the GRUB file in this case. If the "Activate" option reinstalls the OS Selector boot loader than it should automatically detect both operating systems.

    What would have prevented this is when you installed Simply Mepis to tell it to not install GRUB to the MBR. Then on the next reboot OS Selector is supposed to automatically detect the new OS.

    Proceed with caution. Even if the computer becomes unbootable there's ways to rebuild the MBR without reinstalling everything.

    I'm no expert but I hope this helps at least point you in the right direction.
     
  5. saikee

    saikee

    Joined:
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    You guys like to pay $49.99.for an OS selector. That is fine by me.

    I use the standard Grub straight off Linux, same you you got in Mepis. It is booting 150+ systems in my box with 3 Dos, 5 Windows, 3 digits number of Linux, 3 BSD and a Solaris.

    Paying doesn't get you the best.
     
  6. rebif

    rebif

    Joined:
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    Hi there, I use and like GRUB, but while the Acronis OS selector is sold separately it comes with the Acronis backup software which will back up entire partitions/drives, which until I started looking into buying just recently didn't even realize it installed it's own boot loader. I wouldn't like that myself, I want to keep GRUB so I guess I'll have to find out what I need to add to the GRUB file to get in to Acronis. Or just use the Acronis boot CD when I need to. Now I don't know if Acronis will give me a choice of overwriting my existing GRUB loader or not. Probably not. So I'll end up reinstalling GRUB. Guess I'll have to try to find out. Maybe it's in their on-line PDF manuals. I'd like to see fanders keep GRUB and even set it up to where Acronis would not be visible unless he presses F11 just like before. If that's possible. (I guess that's for security reasons) Maybe someone else could help with that but then he may not care as long as he gets it working. You are right, paying doesn't get you the best.

    PS. I've had up to 7 OS's at once. You have me beat by a long shot. :)
     
  7. saikee

    saikee

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2004
    Messages:
    3,887
    Take a peep at the last link of my sigature. It has all the tips showing how to restore Grub, NTLDR and Lilo, to the MBR or the root partition. Can't do it for Acronis because I haven't got it but I am not hot on 3rd party boot loaders as they are invariably graphic programs for the Linux users who prefer clicking to typing. In performance I have met one that can beat Grub.

    Say in your case if you want to put Grub, from partition say (hd0,3) where /boot/grub is located, back to the MBR all you need to do is to boot to a Live CD that supports Grub, invoke a Grub shell and type
    Code:
    root (hd0,3)
    setup (hd0)
    If your Live CD does not support Grub you can still do it by mounting the same partition in Linux, change root to it and invoke the Grub shell inside (hd0,3).

    The irony is Grub can boot any system with the same 3 lines of commands but that is proves too hard for some.

    Any user in Linux for a while can tell you there is a "dd" command that can be used to clone partitions and disks. What commonly unknown is dd is faster and more versatile. I used Norton Ghost before and never had a need to go back after entering Linux. If you can understand an input device disk hda can be cloned into an output device hdc by just a command in Linux
    Code:
    dd if=/dev/hda of=/dev/hdc
    Would buying Acronis be justified?

    Commercial software has its use and application areas but just like a boot loader Linux has much more to offer when we start using it.

    At the end of the day dd just copies the "1" and "0" from the specified location to the termination point of one hard disk and write the same information on another. MS systems don't provide such a facility and good luck to proprietors of Acronis and Norton making a killing out of it. Linux users are supposed to be more educuated.
     
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