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Help Selecting New Build Specs

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by b-subs, Jun 5, 2009.

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  1. b-subs

    b-subs Banned Thread Starter

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    Hi, I'm looking into a new build, and the i7's have come out since my last build (so I don't know much about them). The i7 motherboards seem to be much more expensive than those that don't support the i7's. Are i7's worth their price (motherboard price included).

    And also, is fast ram worth the money?

    Here's what I have at the moment. Criticism wanted.

    OCZ Gold 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Triple Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model OCZ3G1600LV6GK - Retail
    $87.00
    GIGABYTE GA-EX58-UD3R LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
    $199.99
    Intel Core i7 920 Nehalem 2.66GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80601920 - Retail
    $244.05
    EVGA 896-P3-1170-AR GeForce GTX 275 896MB 448-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
    $239.99

    The total of those four components comes out to be $827.87 with shipping.

    I would like to keep the total close to or under $1400. I'll post the other stuff later, after I've decided on the core components. Right now, I would like to know people's opinion's on the i7's.

    (Edit: Changed RAM)
     
  2. b-subs

    b-subs Banned Thread Starter

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  3. b-subs

    b-subs Banned Thread Starter

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    From what I've read, OCZ bought out P&C, so now there are tons of DOA's. Can someone recommend a better PSU?
     
  4. Compiler

    Compiler

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    Corsair PSUs, hands down. If you're looking to stick with a single video card solution (rarely do people later ADD a 2nd video card) then a 650watt PSU.

    Some Criticism being loaded up (you asked for it).
    1 - 250GB HD? Modern games require lots of space. $10 more get the 500GB version.

    2 = 19" monitor? Why bother with all the horse power? A $140 AMD X3 CPU on a $100 motherboard with the 4890 isn't much slower than an i7.

    Get a 24" for $280~300... 1920x1200, and really enjoy the games. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...ption=&Ntk=&CFG=&SpeTabStoreType=&srchInDesc=


    3 - GTX275? Spend about the same for the ATI 4890 which competes with the GTX 285, epecially the 1ghz versions. Heres a chart: http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3555&p=18 Look for 900Mhz versions.

    Like this one for $215 with a free copy of the unstable STALKER game.
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161278

    Going with the 24" monitor will put you $90 over your $1400 limit. Dump a DVD burner and with the $100 650watt PSU... that make it about $50 over.

    Corair PSUs: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...s&bop=And&ActiveSearchResult=True&Order=PRICE

    PS: Personally... I'd go with a cheaper 4830 type cards ($80~100) because in 3~6 months, the new DX11 cards will be hitting the market. These current $250 cards will de-value to $140 overnight.
     
  5. b-subs

    b-subs Banned Thread Starter

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    Thanks for the reply. Here's the new list:
    (I added a sound card. I have Tritton AX Pro's to go with it:)).

    SAMSUNG 22X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA Model SH-S223Q - OEM

    XCLIO Windtunnel Fully Black Finish 1.0 mm SECC Chassis ATX Full Tower Computer Case - Retail

    Western Digital Caviar Black WD5001AALS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive - OEM

    Acer H243Hbmid 24" 2ms(GTG) HDMI Widescreen LCD Monitor - Retail

    SAPPHIRE 100269OCSR Radeon HD 4890 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - OC edition - Retail

    HT | OMEGA STRIKER 7.1 Channels PCI Interface Sound Card - Retail

    CORSAIR CMPSU-650TX 650W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 ... - Retail

    OCZ Gold 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Triple Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model OCZ3G1600LV6GK - Retail

    GIGABYTE GA-EX58-UD3R LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail

    Intel Core i7 920 Nehalem 2.66GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80601920 - Retail

    $1446.90 with shipping.

    I threw a 19" monitor on there before, because my friends tell me fps's are harder on 22" and 24" monitors. I need to try one out at a friend's house. As for now, I'll leave the 24" on the list.

    If I were to get a cheaper GPU, would the prices really drop enough so that the lesser GPU would completely pay itself off? Even if it does, I would have a bad GPU for 6 months; I think I'm just going to buy the better card initally and stick with dx 9 on XP 64 bit. Windows 7 sounds too much like Vista 2.0.

    So is the i7 setup worth the money?
     
  6. Compiler

    Compiler

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    Yeah... and so? Not much point in having a top 3 CPU with a top 3 GPU and playing a game on a bottom end monitor? You see the performance charts?
    I have a ATI 4670 card... I play UT3 and pretty much ALL games in 1920x1200 (24" monitor) Except for Crysis/FarCry2 type games(of course). The 4850~90 cards are designed for 30" displays like 2500x1600 res. :)

    Here's the latest 2009 chart from TomsHardware:
    http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/gaming-graphics-charts-2009/Far-Cry-2,1176.html

    My 4670 is way at the bottom... but hey, I bought it for $85, 8 months ago and it replaced a $200+ card (3870) which people were dying to get.

    That depends. I'm an XP user myself. Vista will never ever touch my hardware. But 64bit XP support is pretty bad. Vista64bit is easily better. From a personal friend who had Vista, went back to XP and is beta-testing Win7.... he likes Win7 very much. He tried to get me to go Vista, but even he couldn't stand it after several months ;)

    XP is getting quite old to some degree, DX11 should do what DX10 couldn't... get people to upgrade. Win7 seems to have taken care of many of vista issues. SP2 for Vista will not turn it into Win7.

    That depends... What are you going to do with it? Just playing games or doing more useful things like Photoshop / 3D rendering / Video encoding?

    If its just playing games... then a $140 CPU will be about as fast as an I7-920 in some games. Then you have the i5s using a cheaper design that is supposed to be quite fast.

    Here is a chart: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/default.aspx?b=50

    The $140 AMD X3 CPU with a $90 motherboard is 75fps, vs 80fps. Stick in that 4890 card and maybe back up to 80fps.... ;) If all you want is a game PC... well, its up to you how much ya spend.

    So the core parts:
    AMD X3 + mobo + 4GB DDR2 = $290 ( +/- $10) ($110 Gigabyte board with CF)
    i7 920 + mobo + 6GB DDR3 = $532 (PS: RAM for i7 needs to be 1.65volt, I think)

    They are both good chips/systems. The i7 won't disappoint.

    But I can't speak for the i7's x58 chipset. I know I'm not impressed with intel 3x~4x series of chipsets.
     
  7. b-subs

    b-subs Banned Thread Starter

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    Well the idea was to future proof it. I'm the kind of person that prefers frame rate over image quality. I have an 8800 GT and run most of my stuff on medium/low so I get 150-200 FPS. A future proof rig on a high quality 19" monitor with a good frame rate would be fine for me. But, I need to go look at some bigger monitor's before I buy. (However, SC 2 would look nice on a 24" monitor :))

    I was hoping you you would bring this up. This is one of the things I was worried about. Windows should have some kind of free upgrade thing/prepurchase for windows 7. I've been trying to read about it, but have been trouble finding information about it. If they offer a free upgrade for vista users, then I'll go with vista to Windows 7.

    I write music in fl studio, and do some video editing/recording stuff, but it's mostly for gaming.

    Added in an edit: When windows 7 comes out, will the prices of all the other components increase or decrease?

    Thanks for all your help; everything is solved except:HT | OMEGA STRIKER 7.1 Channels PCI Interface Sound Card - Retail $89.99

    vs
    HT | OMEGA CLARO 7.1 Channels PCI Interface Sound Card - Retail $159.99

    with Tritton Ax Pro's. Right now I have the 'Striker' down.
     
  8. Compiler

    Compiler

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    LOL... no such thing. I thought my first computer would last me years once I got my hands on an 8K memory upgrade. My C=128 lasted me 3+ years. My Amigas for another 5+ years. Gaming PCs... even shorter. GPU tech pretty much doubles every year. In a few months, the i5 will come out which will sell for about $190~200 and is as faster or faster than the i7-920. But unlike the i7, its an entry level design and won't ever support 6~8 core CPUs.

    ??? While video is on 30fps and that is completely different from playing a 3D game. Its rather pointless to waste graphic visuals once you're over 60fps. With LCD monitors, their "refresh" rate is 60hz. Hence, V-Sync helps visual quality to prevent page flipping - but otherwise going beyond that is fine for benchmarking. Seeing how well a videocard/system is performing. I play my games at High/MAX details and typically get 40~60fps.

    At high rez with details, your ability to snipe is enhanced over a low res display.

    No such thing as a high quality 19" display nowadays. Your 8800GT card is more powerful than mine... I enjoy the visuals and I still an above avg online game player. Oh, and ANY game looks better on a bigger monitor. When I was looking to replace my huge 19" CRT - the res. on the LCD couldn't be lower in any way than what I already had. So 24" or large was the only choice. Kind of a cool thing, is that 25" displays are hitting $400.

    WindowsXP is old, MS doesn't need to offer any free upgrade to a newer OS. The only way you'd get a "free" Win7 upgrade is if you buy a PC from a manufacture in Aug09~Jan2010 (I'm guessing when the offer starts/ends). Use your current WindowsXP CD and wait until Win7 comes out... or Download Windows7Beta and use that until you can buy it.

    Then you've seen some benchmarks of i7 vs other CPUs.... like this one: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/default.aspx?b=50 In which in the game, there is a 6fps difference between a $300 CPU and a $140 CPU (AMD X3) as well as a $200 mobo and a $100mobo (AMD X3).

    I don't see any price changes happening because of Windows7. Other than current high end DX10 cards will stop production. Low end cards will last 2-4x longer than high end... because if you want the best, yesterdays $500 GPU ain't cutting it. Based on ATIs history on their last 2 series of cards (3xxx / 4xxx), I'm expecting the 5850 card to costs $200 and easily 1.5x faster than the 4890. Hopefully the 5830 will come out the same time at $150 or so.

    Ie: Who would spend $500 today on a new-in-box 1.5year old 8800GTX when todays $100 4770 are faster, never mind todays $200~400 cards.

    Audio cards : What ever doesn't work in Vista, is most likely not going to work in Windows 7.
     
  9. b-subs

    b-subs Banned Thread Starter

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    Thank you, you've been really helpful.
    If the cards are going to devalue, should I consider SLI?
     
  10. Compiler

    Compiler

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    This is text I have copied from another post about SLI:

    "Statics show that about 1% of people ever actually upgrade their system to the 2nd video card (as apposed to starting out that way)... why? By the time you find your GTX260 as being "slow", you'll have some trouble finding your same video card and it'll tend to be slower than a single new card. It ends up being cheaper to sell the old card and buy a new one.

    ie: 2x 6800Ultras cards did compete against a single 7900GT. Same with 2x 7900 vs a single 8800GT. And then theres the issue... Lets say about 18 months from now, you want more 3D performance. Finding another GTX260 will be tricky vs a GTX260-Core216 (dumb name).
    So spending $200 for an ATI 6850 card or about $50~70 for a GTX260... if you can find it."


    While not so much a problem with the X58 chipset... if you bought an ATI card (or vise-versa an Nvidia card) and the next gen card is opposite of the maker than what you currently have, it becomes "a waste" as you'll have to buy 2 new cards or as in the case of new tech, a single new card is just simply faster than last years two card setups.

    So you'll have TWO video cards will still devalue. Guess which is faster... two 2007 ATI X1950 XTX cards{CrossFire} ($500 each) or a single 4830 card at $90?

    Here is a chart: http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/gaming-graphics-charts-q3-2008/Call-of-Duty-4-v1.6,746.html The game is in 1920x1200... and yes, the $90 modern card is faster. (4830 isn't on the list but its only a bit slower than the 4850).


    Even my $65 ATI 4670 card is almost as fast as two 1950xtx card with the msrp of $500 a pop. So had you bought such a 1950XTX card in 2007 (before the 8800GTX) why bother buying another when a $65~95 card will out-perform two cards while not having the issues of power, heat and noise. This means better cooling, a more expensive power supply about 850~1000watts, etc etc...

    I could get around 47fps in 1920x1200 according to the chart above. Its not the best, but if very good for the price. Its up there with cards that used to cost $300~500 in the past 12~24 months. A single 48xx card is fine for your games.

    Reviews for video cards of today are tested with 1680x1050~2500x1600 res. 22 / 24 and 30" LCDs... because todays $50 cards are enough for 19" displays usually.
     
  11. b-subs

    b-subs Banned Thread Starter

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    Thanks for your help.
     
  12. Alkison

    Alkison

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    My specs at the bottom.
    I love everything for the most part.
    The following are the only changes I wish i made.
    (I bought this computer for video editing not gaming)

    > Corsair Dominator's, not XMS
    > Liquid cooling, so I could overclock higher (under full load)
    > Eventually a better video card, I just bought crysis warhead.
     
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