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Help Understanding Large ATA HD & Windows Install on New Drive

Discussion in 'Windows XP' started by scottdev, Jan 17, 2011.

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  1. scottdev

    scottdev Thread Starter

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2011
    Messages:
    3
    Running:
    P4 - 2.4 GHz
    82801DB Mother Board
    845GRC Chipset
    2 GB Ram
    Bios: RG84510A.86A.0033.P17

    I recently tried to install Windows XP on a new Ultra ATA Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 250 GB Hard Drive and forgot about the problem with large hard drives issue (which I am educated very little about). The installation process progressed as usual in terms of formatting drive, copy files to install, etc, but upon reboot the hard drive would not boot to the Windows GUI to install windows. I thought it was a disk issue such as a scratch or something, but the install disk worked fine installing onto a 10 GB Western Digital IDE hard drive. So I guess the problem is related to the size of the hard drive and/or the Ultra
    ATA issue. My bios does recognize the hard drive.

    I have an Intel 845GRC Chipset. Intel's website says:

    "Does the Desktop Board D845GRG support Ultra ATA/100 hard drives?
    Yes. The Desktop Board D845GRG supports Ultra ATA transfer rates up to 100 MB/sec (ATA/100) by way of the ICH4 IDE controller with two independent bus-mastering IDE interfaces. An Ultra ATA/100 supported hard drive and an 80 conductor IDE cable are required to take advantage of the increased bandwidth available on the IDE channel. One of the new features of the Intel Desktop Board D845GRG is its ability to support larger ATA/100 capable hard drives with 48-bit Logical Block Addressing (LBA) within the BIOS along with all Ultra ATA transfer rates (i.e., 33 MB/sec, 66 MB/sec and 100 MB/sec). To realize a true throughput performance difference, a hard drive may need to implement higher spindle speeds, such as 7200 RPM, and a large onboard buffer size to take advantage of the increased bandwidth available on the IDE channel. "

    I am confused about what needs to be done to:

    a. Be able to install windows xp without the problem above.
    b. Be able to have windows use the entire hard drive instead of only 137 GB.
    c. Whether I need to Install Intel Application Accelerator software or Slipstream Windows Install or both.
    d. Is this problem related to only the large size of the disk, or also an Ultra ATA issue? I thought Ultra ATA was just another flavor of IDE?

    Do I need the Intel Application Accelerator software?
    http://downloadcenter.intel.com/Detail_Desc.aspx?agr=Y&DwnldID=5497&lang=eng
    Is it possible to install Windows and have it able to read the entire drive without installing this additional accelerator software later after Windows is installed (how would I be able to install it anyway if I can't get Windows to install?)?

    Do I need to reinstall Windows using slipstream SP2? If so, can I slipstream sp3 only, or can or should I slipstream SP2 and SP3 upon the same installation?

    I read conflicting information - one website said that if slipstream sp3, that would include all other updates from SP1 and SP2 - another website (including Microsoft) said that each must be installed before the next one.

    If I slipstream, do I still need to install the Inter Accelerator software? If so, can that be slipstreamed as well?

    If using the Intel Application Accelerator software, will that create an additional partition?

    Hope someone can help me make sense of this. I know once I get it down I'll be good for the next time!
     
  2. Macboatmaster

    Macboatmaster Trusted Advisor Spam Fighter

    Joined:
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    22,547
    There are many questions here.
    If Windows is already installed on that computer and fully updated and you are happy with it.
    Insert the NEW drive as a slave or cable select and clone the HDD to the NEW drive using Seagate Disc Wizard to clone and then partition the new drive and then image
    http://seagate.custkb.com/seagate/crm/selfservice/search.jsp?DocId=201951&NewLang=en

    If Windows is NOT now installed you may, if you can install that drive as slave in another computer, then partition it using Computer management, Disk management
    Return it to the computer in question and install Windows on the NEW drive.

    You should I think give serious consideration to NOT simply installing Windows using the whole capacity of the drive. You CANNOT partition AFTERWARDS, using Windows Disk Management and although you can use a third party program, they are NOT always successful.

    If it was me I would partition roughly, as follows:
    1. 20GB for operating system and such matters as Adobe, Java etc.
    IF YOU WISHED to give it consideration you have ample room for a dual boot with Ubuntu. If you are not aware of this program
    it is in my opinion an excellent operating system, all free, with free software and in many ways, better than Windows. I have never thought that it replaced Windows, but some of its advantages are obvious once you experience it.
    IF you give this consideration I would make the partition for the dual boot 40Gb. That will be ample.

    2. I would then make a partition of about 40Gb for your personal files - ie: your documents, jpegs and mp3 etc. Obviously this is flexible depending on your requirments in these matters.

    3. I would then make a partiton of about 100Gb for your other programs.

    4. The remainder, as the fourth partition and approximately 70 - 90 depending on if you go dual boot will be for a copy of the XP CD, an image of the Windows and Ubuntu installation on the first partition, and various recovery programs.

    THERE are many benefits to doing as I suggest, not least of which is that the Operating system is kept separate from your important personal data. Therefore in the event of disaster, apart from a complete and irrecoverable failure ofthe drive, recovery of that data is so much easier.
    Additionally the operation of the computer is smoother and the Windows system loads easier and smoother. I hesitate to say quicker as I have never thought that important.
    Also and perhaps most important, problem solving is easier.


    If you wish here are some ideas on other threads I have so advised
    http://forums.techguy.org/windows-xp/960467-solved-fatal-error.html
    See my posts 62, 69, 75, 76 and 87 on the above link.


    To be completed I can see you are watching so NO you do not need the Intel program come to that in a minute.
     
  3. Macboatmaster

    Macboatmaster Trusted Advisor Spam Fighter

    Joined:
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    22,547
    JUST COME BACK on this please before I now address how you should proceed to install with BIOS setup and the XP
    As if you are commited to just the WHOLE HDD, I will not waste our time./

    AND I PRESUME A Typo
     
  4. scottdev

    scottdev Thread Starter

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2011
    Messages:
    3
    You have some interesting ideas here.

    I do have an installation of updated Windows on this computer, and could go with your clone idea.

    I have some other computers to setup as well with these larger Ultra ATA hard drives, so that's why so many questions to get to the bottom of what's needed to install fresh installs with them. I read that the best way to do it was using the slipstream method - but still unclear how it works.

    Are you saying that Windows cannot support and partition the entire (or close to it) 250 GB? Or could windows use the entire disk but need to partition it in two or more partitions? Still somewhat confused here. Could I assign and format these diffrent partitions with the Windows install disk rather than using DiscWizard? Wouldn't that be easier? I have no problem with partitions if that is the way to go.

    I think I read Windows could partation and use the entire disk if I were installing Windows with SP2 update - hence the slipstream idea.

    I'm still unclear where the Intel Application Accelerator software is needed - or if it's needed.

    I'm also still unclear on the very first problem I documented - that of why the HD would not boot into the install GUI after install rebooted - was that because the hd was not partitioned correctly?

    I forgot to mention that this new drive will only contain the OS and Applications - most data will be stored on another drive.
     
  5. Macboatmaster

    Macboatmaster Trusted Advisor Spam Fighter

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    I would still partition it.
    Maybe in view of your last not as I said, but to install to just one is waste of the capabilities of 250Gb
    AND will only serve to increase your difficulties in the event of a crash, from bad driver, failed install of something, etc.

    However having given you the ideas it is up to you.
    I never build a system these days with a HDD just as a single partition. Really in MY opinion it is old hat.

    It is NOT difficult to slipstream. In fact it is easier in many respects than installing XP SP1 and updating. With SP3 you do not have as many driver issues and YOU have the advantage of a smoother
    OPERATION AFTER INSTALL.

    It depends on how you are going to do this.
    If you are working from the drive, as it is NEW and in that computer AND if you have the motherboard drivers on the CD install those first.

    THen use NLIte here. to slipstream your XP to SP3. As you have SP1, you will have to check the NLite
    I seem to remember, although it is sometime since I used it that you need SP2 and SP3.
    http://www.nliteos.com/index.html
    Sometimes confuses first users. Click guides on the left hand of the page and work from there.


    NOW to your particular problem
    See step 2 on this link please
    http://support.microsoft.com/kb/313348

    Partition
    Format NTFS.
    Install you will not have a problem - I think even with SP1 - if you only have XP - you will.

    BIOS
    ensure drive set auto detect and recognised as 250Gb drive.
    If not set manually for LBA 48 bit and using the data from Seagate.
    HERE
    http://www.seagate.com/ww/v/index.j...00000f5ee0a0aRCRD&locale=en-US&reqPage=Legacy
    However I would be surprised if it does not see it.

    FINALLY
    Install the Recovery Console as a boot option.
    You will not regret it - if or perhaps when you need to boot to that
    http://support.microsoft.com/kb/307654
     
  6. scottdev

    scottdev Thread Starter

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2011
    Messages:
    3
    See comments below:


    "I would still partition it.
    Maybe in view of your last not as I said, but to install to just one is waste of the capabilities of 250Gb
    AND will only serve to increase your difficulties in the event of a crash, from bad driver, failed install of something, etc."

    So when I run windows install and start partitioning - I can create as many paritions as I like up to the 250 GB withou a problem?

    "It is NOT difficult to slipstream. In fact it is easier in many respects than installing XP SP1 and updating. With SP3 you do not have as many driver issues and YOU have the advantage of a smoother"

    Working on this now.


    "NOW to your particular problem
    See step 2 on this link please
    http://support.microsoft.com/kb/313348"

    Will look at this now.

    "Partition
    Format NTFS.
    Install you will not have a problem - I think even with SP1 - if you only have XP - you will."

    So If I slipstream using SP3 there should be no SP1 problems because SP3 has those rolled in correct? After windows loads files to install and reboots, HD should read install files and go straight to install GUI hopefully - and then read disk successfully including any partitions created.


    "BIOS
    ensure drive set auto detect and recognised as 250Gb drive.
    If not set manually for LBA 48 bit and using the data from Seagate.
    HERE
    http://www.seagate.com/ww/v/index.js...reqPage=Legacy
    However I would be surprised if it does not see it."

    I will double check - as mentioned Bios did recoginize HD - but I forgot to look at what size it recgonized.

    "FINALLY
    Install the Recovery Console as a boot option.
    You will not regret it - if or perhaps when you need to boot to that
    http://support.microsoft.com/kb/307654 "

    Will read this and check out.

    I'm still unclear about the Intel Application Accelerator software is needed - or if it's needed.
    http://downloadcenter.intel.com/Deta...=5497&lang=eng
     
  7. Macboatmaster

    Macboatmaster Trusted Advisor Spam Fighter

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2010
    Messages:
    22,547
    You can create as many partitions as you like BUT basically 4. After that one of the four must be an extended partition, then that is itself sub divided into logical partitions.
    MY ADVICE - just keep to the four I suggested - not of course the exact size I stated that is upto you.
    To SAVE me a lot of typing se this link
    http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/file/structPartitions-c.html

    AND here again is WHY from Microsoft
    http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/setup/expert/tulloch_partition.mspx

    SLIPSTREAM
    The question does not have a simple answer.
    If you ever had to carry out a REPAIR install of XP, you cannot repair an SP3 installation with an XP SP1 CD.
    That is one reason to slipstream, as doing it NOW and knowing it has worked, when there is no rush, is a lot easier than trying to do it when the chips are down and you are frantically trying to get the computer working.
    Generally a SP3 installation is a lot smoother than SP1, with driver issues and the updates.
    IN short I WOULD slipstream.

    INTEL
    I do not think you will need the accelerator software, it was according to the Intel site issued on the 28 Aug 2002
    iata_enu.exe
    Version:
    2.2.2.2150
    08/28/2002
    I would find it difficult to believe that you do not in effect have it. , unless the system is VERY old
    but what I would certainly do is to install latest chipset driver. You will have to check which one you need, but you can do this after XP is installed.
    http://www.intel.com/p/en_US/support/highlights/chpsts/inf
     
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