how to define good and bad music???

buffoon

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Is there such a categorization at all, respectively is it justified to make it?
I am not referring to any group of music (like classical) being worse or better than another (like rock), that would be ludicrous. But in an argument with my wife, my most vociferous opponent in debate where deemed fit, I hold the opinion that good and bad exist. Her battleship argues that this is subjective, i.e. that whatever people like is good (for them) but cannot be measured with any quality stick, since that is also a subjective measure devised by subjective people, music critics included.
I would agree on the music critic thing at times (as I would on art critics, film critics etc.) but also think that there are "authorities" in these fields that are as objective as possible. I also point out that I can (I think and hope) recognize a piece of music as good in its composition, inspiration, imaginativeness, instrumental definitions etc. etc., but may not necessarily like it. At the same time I may find a "little ditty" very likeable but would not feel inclined to write home about it to say it was a masterpiece.
Help me (or her) out there, please.
 

buffoon

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i hasten to add my awareness of the subjectivity involved (mine and others')
 
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There is music and there is noise, both are published on CD.
If ya can't whistle it and hum it then it ain't music.
 

valis

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Her battleship argues that this is subjective, i.e. that whatever people like is good (for them) but cannot be measured with any quality stick, since that is also a subjective measure devised by subjective people, music critics included.

she's got you there. It's totally subjective. Some people love picasso, others think he's an idiot. Or Jackson Pollack, for that matter; I love all his work, and find them very soothing (fractalicious), but my wife finds them bordering on the absurd.

When I used to write columns, I published a little story about defining good music vs. bad music. It's attached if you want to read it. Mind you, it's not a serious column; straight up humor. :)

if you don't want to read the entire article, scroll to the end, and I've got a handy table that delineates cool music from uncool music.

enjoy.
 

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blues_harp28

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Yep all subjective.
You like it or you do not.
As for music critics what do they know.
What would put a song [rock-pop etc] into the Bad category for me, is how it is being played.
The bad choice of chords etc that are being played, the real lack of thought as to the structure of the song.
Edit..just remembered an example.
Rolling Stones..they have written some good songs but they have as yet, been unable to work out how they should be played.
And time is running out for them.

The best thing I heard recently at a local folk club was two Irish girls playing two tin whistles..unbelieveable.

Interesting Music Column valis.
Can't say I agree, but you would expect me to say that.:)
 

buffoon

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she's got you there. It's totally subjective. Some people love picasso, others think he's an idiot. Or Jackson Pollack, for that matter; I love all his work, and find them very soothing (fractalicious), but my wife finds them bordering on the absurd.

When I used to write columns, I published a little story about defining good music vs. bad music. It's attached if you want to read it. Mind you, it's not a serious column; straight up humor. :)

if you don't want to read the entire article, scroll to the end, and I've got a handy table that delineates cool music from uncool music.

enjoy.
Darn it. It would be you and coming up with more than a two liner (actually LMAO:D). So her battleship wins? I'll go to my room now to
1. have a good cry and 2. do some ego-rebuilding. Anything on Celine (she who will be the death of my eardrums)? Yes, you suspect rightly. Her battleship loves her. ;):)
 

buffoon

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and her battleship is loved by me, I add hastily. It's just I can't take an ex to the stereo. It's the only one we have.
 

valis

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ex, axe, all the same to me. :)

what REALLY stinks is that I have a stack of about 4 feet of vinyl, and my wife is one of those 'stereos are not furniture' people, so I now have a 4' stack of vinyl encased in trash bags for storage.

vinyl in vinyl, as it were.

The Bivinyls.
 

valis

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Joined
Sep 24, 2004
Messages
78,203
Yep all subjective.
You like it or you do not.
As for music critics what do they know.
What would put a song [rock-pop etc] into the Bad category for me, is how it is being played.
The bad choice of chords etc that are being played, the real lack of thought as to the structure of the song.
Edit..just remembered an example.
Rolling Stones..they have written some good songs but they have as yet, been unable to work out how they should be played.
And time is running out for them.

The best thing I heard recently at a local folk club was two Irish girls playing two tin whistles..unbelieveable.

Interesting Music Column valis.
Can't say I agree, but you would expect me to say that.:)
Interesting, eh? Hell, you should read my sexy music column. Now THAT one was interesting. :)

And no, I didn't expect most people to agree with me. As my record collection begins with 311 and ends with Zebra, I sort of run the gamut, as it were.
 

buffoon

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ex, axe, all the same to me. :)

what REALLY stinks is that I have a stack of about 4 feet of vinyl, and my wife is one of those 'stereos are not furniture' people, so I now have a 4' stack of vinyl encased in trash bags for storage.

vinyl in vinyl, as it were.

The Bivinyls.
Oh boy how I know exactly what you mean. Fortunately I have the edge here, 'cos I'm the DIY carpenter and somehow the stereo got incorporated
into the bookshelf. Dunno how that happened. :DTaking the "ex" to the stereo? Hmmm!!!:)
 

buffoon

Thread Starter
Joined
Jul 16, 2008
Messages
19,165
Yep all subjective.
You like it or you do not.
As for music critics what do they know.
What would put a song [rock-pop etc] into the Bad category for me, is how it is being played.
The bad choice of chords etc that are being played, the real lack of thought as to the structure of the song.

bad music

Edit..just remembered an example.
Rolling Stones..they have written some good songs but they have as yet, been unable to work out how they should be played.
And time is running out for them.

Absolutely. Only trouble is it wouldn't be the Stones if somebody else did
it better. and I kinda got used to the best worst guitarist (if you can call
Keith that). Point in favor of the subjectivity. :(

The best thing I heard recently at a local folk club was two Irish girls playing two tin whistles..unbelieveable.

:)one gets those moments, fortunately:)

Interesting Music Column valis.
Can't say I agree, but you would expect me to say that.:)
Oh I DO agree. Don't think it's satirical at all:D
 
Joined
Sep 12, 2003
Messages
20,583
Good music is not discordant - bad music is!

OTOH, the sound of a F-1 engine accelerating through 6 gears is good music to my ears! Braaaaaaappp! Braaaaaaaaaaaaaaappppp! Braaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaapppppppp! ...

-- Tom
 

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