If the UN voted to have our weapons monitored.

plschwartz

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What if the US was put into the position that the Iraqis are in?
Say in a fit of pique the US walked out of the Security Coucil, and they promptly passed a resolution that UN inspectors should monitor all WMD in the US. Would you accept the same arguements that you might use for Iraqi inspection in agreement with the UNs' right to inspect the US WMD?
How would the shoe feel on the other foot?
 
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Originally posted by plschwartz:
Would you accept the same arguments that you might use for Iraqi inspection in agreement with the UNs' right to inspect the US WMD?
In all honesty, probably not. But I'd also like to say that Iraq is in this position only because of past crimes they committed. I can't say I've followed everything thats been happening with Iraq really closely. I do know that the inspectors have yet to find a Nuclear or Biological weapon. But come on PL, kids hid stuff in their own house that their parents never find. These inspectors are on unfamiliar territory, and Saddam had advance warning to hide everything. Besides, I don't think the U.S. would go this far without some evidence, Not on moral or ethnic basis but on the basis of how big of fools we would look like if we did go to war and Iraq didn't have any of these weapons. Now don't take me for someone who is all for war. I'm a 21 year old single male. I know what the implications would be. I'm frightened by the prospect of war. But I'm also freighted of Iraq producing these weapons and then giving them to terrorist to attack the U.S. with. I'd rather fight an open war any day then live in constant fear of the next sneak attack.
 
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There were conditions put in place at the end of the Gulf War. Saddam has not complied with all these which include stopping all research in nuclear, biological, and chemical warfare. He has had UN inspectors booted of Iraq in the past and has not complied with proving that he has stopped these programs and destroyed any weapons built under those programs. The situation is completely different in the lack of compliance

I do not agree that war is necessary but also have my doubts that Saddam has any intentions of complying.

I also wonder just how involved he really is with Bin Laden and other terrorist groups.
 
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Would there really even be a UN if the US walked out? It might continue to exist for a while but they would never get anything done.
 
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Originally posted by plschwartz:
What if the US was put into the position that the Iraqis are in?
Say in a fit of pique the US walked out of the Security Coucil, and they promptly passed a resolution that UN inspectors should monitor all WMD in the US. Would you accept the same arguements that you might use for Iraqi inspection in agreement with the UNs' right to inspect the US WMD?
How would the shoe feel on the other foot?
Yes, if we had invaded taken over Canada to secure its natural resources, had our citizens attacked by our own government with biological rockets and shells, and a host of other reasons that got Iraq to where it is, I would certainly accept the "world" wanting to put my govt in its place.

Wouldn't you?
 
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Originally posted by ComputerFix:
Yes, if we had invaded taken over Canada to secure its natural resources, had our citizens attacked by our own government with biological rockets and shells, and a host of other reasons that got Iraq to where it is, I would certainly accept the "world" wanting to put my govt in its place.

Wouldn't you?

I think what Schwartz is implying is that America is as guilty as Iraq. As Noam Chomsky says, "America, Israel, and Turkey are the real axis of Evil."
 
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Maybe I'm confused (shut-up Mulder) but I thought our WMD (ie. nuclear) are monitored under the various SALT and related treaties with Russia. (Yes, I know thats not the UN but what the heck you count once or twice its the same.) In fact as I recall, as we destroy our nuclear bombs it has to be verified by our Russian friends. Don't they rent office space at the various missile silos now. (;) )
 

plschwartz

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Mulder, Amigo!

It is with the greatest self-control that I have not interpreted any of your remarks. Please do not give me cause to waeken that resolve.

As sad an event 9/11 was, it was not the enormous violation that many feel that it was, on the scale of violations as that done to Peter O'Toole in Lawrence of Ababia. Several buildings were destroyed and less tahn 3000 americans died.

We felt no problem with chasing the banditios, invading Afghanistan and desroying many more than a few buildings and by "colatteral damage" off a good number.
After we invaded that country we put in a puppet government. We also took arrested persons who were on a special list, interrogated thenm as we chose, kiled a bunch of them "by accident" in a sealed storgae container, and have kept many others in a primative jail in another country so our law need not apply. Now we are going to take edivence some of them have given under unknown conditions or duress, and present it as "evidence" for the military ocvcupation of another country, who also clearly doesn't want out troops.

I posted this thread to try and put yourself in the mindset of an Iraqi. For me I could understand the first war. We invaded another country and were beaten. Fortunes of war.
But since then our country has been embargoed to the extent that perhaps a million have dies from starvation and disease.
Our soverenty has continually been violated by the no-fly zones, and more is being asked.
And we are faced with the real possibility of being occupied by a heathen foreign power. That is very much more of a violation. That is being Peter O'Toole.
An Iraq citizen has as much choice as a Czech did before Munich

I know I am going to get the usual answers that " he deserves it"
But that is Saddam, the elected leader of his country, who we gave moral and technical support to when he lost all those men in Iran.

Try to see it from the Iraqi man in the street.
That Mr. M is what I tried to mean by my question
 
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Originally posted by plschwartz:
Try to see it from the Iraqi man in the street.
I believe you have a point. Let's ask the Iraqi person on Main Street, USA? They, like all Cubans who risked their lives to immigrate to the US would tell George Bush to go into Iraq with Guns blazing and disple the Tyrant that has destroyed their country and left their people desolate with no hope.

The Iraqi man on the street, whether is Main St. or Bagdad will rejoice in the ejection of Hussein and his murderous regime from the country.

There were millions of innocent people who died in many European countries in both WW1 and WWII when the US invaded. I would say that everyone of the people in those countries would tell you that despite the death of millions, the dispelling of Hitler from Europe was good thing.

Bad analogy Schwartzy! ;)
 
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plschwartz ...

Try a different approach in order to get where it is that you're trying to get to ... I don't much like the idea of being in agreement with Mulder but I gotta tell ya that its just a bad analogy.

I can see where it is that you're trying to go with it ... I think (the shoe fitting on the other foot) Right?... the thing is that ya can't get there from here. ;)
 

bassetman

Moderator (deceased) - Gone but never forgotten
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Man I am getting chills! I better go to bed and dream of pleasant things!
 
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Try to see it from the Iraqi man in the street.
Here is what Asad Gozeh has to say, a former Iraqi citizen.....and a Kurd...

http://www.genocidewatch.org/A Kurdish view for peace.htm


Anecdotal: I attended a class in small business ownership with a former Iraqi citizen. He arrived in this country earlier this year. While out smoking, someone finally worked up the courage to talk to him about his country. He said he loved it, wished he could have stayed there, but "that man (Saddam) is a madman". Can't prove it for you, but there is another "Iraqi man on the street".

After we invaded that country we put in a puppet government.
You mean by letting the one that was overthrown by the Taliban resume leadership? How callous of us. ;)

But since then our country has been embargoed to the extent that perhaps a million have dies from starvation and disease.
Iraqi oil revenues are ABOVE what they were prior to Desert Storm. In the "oil for food" program, oil comes out, money goes in, but yet, as you state, there is no food. Who has the money? Give you one guess......


Our soverenty has continually been violated by the no-fly zones,
Those occupying the land to the north do not feel violated. See link above......
 

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