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Is this possible? wireless router + desktop + ethernet + win98

Discussion in 'Networking' started by calydon, Nov 14, 2008.

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  1. calydon

    calydon Thread Starter

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    Executive summary:

    I want to add a win98 laptop to my network which consists of a desktop that receives a wireless signal from a router. The laptop would connect to this desktop with an ethernet cable.

    Here is my detailed setup:

    I.
    A) Internet comes in through the wall to a Shaw surfboard, then uplinks to a D-Link router (DI 524 - a bit old).

    B)The router sends wireless signals flying across the apartment to my desktop
    i)which has a wireless ring receiver thingie (http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii221/computer-camp/ASUS Wireless Antenna/oly3646.jpg)
    ii)The router also connects directly to my girlfriend's computer via ethernet, but that's not important right now.

    II.
    A) My desktop has two ethernet ports.
    B) The desktop connects to a laptop running win98 (best for playing old games - at least the ones that don't run so well on DosBox)
    i)The laptop has an IP when I use ipconfig to check what it sees. This IP is 169.254.122.9
    ii)The laptop also shows a default gateway: 255.255.0.0

    III.
    A) When I look at the network, I can see my computer and my girlfriend's. I cannot see the win98 laptop. I suspect I must make changes to its network settings so that I can see it in the list of computers. I might have to bridge some connections? Enable internet connection sharing on the laptop? (AND desktop??) I'm not sure.

    additional info: pinging 169.254.122.9 from the desktop: request times out.

    ipconfig info for the desktop:
    DHCP enabled: yes
    Autoconfig enabled: yes
    IP: 192.168.0.101
    subnet mask: 255.255.255.0
    default gateway: 192.168.0.1
    DHCP server: 192.168.0.1
    DNS Servers: 208.67.222.222
    208.67.220.220

    ipconfig info for the laptop:
    DHCP enabled:yes
    IP: 169.254.122.9
    Subnet mask: 255.255.0.0
    DHCP Server:255.255.255.255
     
  2. JohnWill

    JohnWill Retired Moderator

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    Just bridge the connections on the wireless computer, do NOT use ICS to make the connection to the W98 machine.
     
  3. calydon

    calydon Thread Starter

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    OK, I have tried that -

    Here is the problem that happens when I try to bridge the wireless connection and the cable connection on the desktop.

    First, after selecting the two connections and right-clicking, 'bridge connection', after windows does its thing, bam - I lose internet.

    I then can see only the desktop computer in the network.

    Then, when I remove the bridge, I STILL don't have internet, until I disable the cable connection, and then internet works again.
     
  4. calydon

    calydon Thread Starter

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    I think I nearly got it.

    Here is what I did.

    First I did a search to see why bridging network connections might not work. I found this article:
    http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/networking/expert/crawford_02april22.mspx

    WARNING! This is not such a great article. First, it gives a wrong method for displaying the bridged adapters using netsh, and second, it mentions instructions that were taken from a different page without using the same context, which makes it quite confusing.

    Luckily it links to this article:
    http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;EN-US;Q302348&ID=KB;EN-US;Q302348&

    So now I know how to use netsh to see the adapters. Both the wireless and cable adapters showed 'uknown'.

    After a lot of trial and error I used this command

    netsh bridge set adapter 2 forcecompatmode=enable

    and then

    netsh bridge set adapter 1 forcecompatmode=disable

    So now 1 cable adapter compatmode is disabled
    So now 2 wireless network connection compatmode is enabled.

    This allowed me to see the XP desktop- from the win98 laptop (not by using network neighbourhood but by going to start > run > type in //desktopName/

    After a while I could see all my network computers in win98, but I can't actually access anything. Conversely, on my XP desktop, win98 never showed up, but by using the start > run > type in //laptopName/ trick I can see the shared folders on that computer. I won't quibble about this - win98 /Xp networking is feeble at the best of times.

    Now I right-click the shared folders that are on the laptop and I map them as network drives.

    So far so good but the remaining problem is neither computer has internet.
    So - I removed the wireless adapter from the bridge.
    Now XP desktop has internet, and amazingly - the mapped drives still work!

    This is practically good enough for me, since all I wanted to be able to do was transfer files off the laptop but the win98 laptop still doesn't have internet. Any ideas?

    Don't I have to specify an ip address and subnet mask in TCP/IP properties? If so, which one?
     
  5. JohnWill

    JohnWill Retired Moderator

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    If all you wanted to do is transfer files with no Internet connection, there was probably an easier way.


    Configure the machines as follows.

    PC #1:
    IP address: 192.168.9.1
    Subnet Address: 255.255.255.0

    PC #2:
    IP address: 192.168.9.2
    Subnet Address: 255.255.255.0

    Leave the Default Gateway and DNS Server addresses blank.

    Make sure any firewalls are configured to put the 192.168.9.x subnet in the trusted zone.

    Finally, you'll have to enable fine/print sharing on the machines and actually share one or more folders or drives.

    Here's a page that describes the process in detail: http://www.howtodothings.com/computers-internet/how-to-connect-2-pcs-directly
     
  6. calydon

    calydon Thread Starter

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    Messages:
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    Hi John,

    I do actually want a working internet connection on both machines.

    Right now I have internet working on the desktop, but not the laptop.
    I'm not sure why the laptop can't find the internet.
     
  7. JohnWill

    JohnWill Retired Moderator

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    Messages:
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    Let's see this for both machines.

    Hold the Windows key and press R, then type CMD to open a command prompt:

    In the command prompt window that opens, type type the following commands, one at a time, followed by the Enter key:

    Note that there is a space before the -n or the /ALL, but there is NOT a space after the - or / in the following commands.

    NBTSTAT -n

    IPCONFIG /ALL

    Right click in the command window and choose Select All, then hit Enter to copy the contents to the clipboard.
    Paste the results in a message here.

    If you are on a machine with no network connection, use a floppy, USB disk, or a CD-RW disk to transfer a text file with the information to allow pasting it here.
     
  8. calydon

    calydon Thread Starter

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    Messages:
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    Ok, here is the info for the XP Desktop computer (named CHM64k):
    The network workgroup is called SOURCE1

    Microsoft Windows [Version 5.2.3790]
    (C) Copyright 1985-2003 Microsoft Corp.
    C:\Documents and Settings\Cal>nbtstat -n
    Network Bridge (Network Bridge) 9:
    Node IpAddress: [169.254.219.17] Scope Id: []
    NetBIOS Local Name Table
    Name Type Status
    ---------------------------------------------
    CHM64K <00> UNIQUE Registered
    CHM64K <20> UNIQUE Registered
    SOURCE1 <00> GROUP Registered
    SOURCE1 <1E> GROUP Registered
    SOURCE1 <1D> UNIQUE Registered
    ..__MSBROWSE__.<01> GROUP Registered
    Wireless Network Connection:
    Node IpAddress: [192.168.0.101] Scope Id: []
    NetBIOS Local Name Table
    Name Type Status
    ---------------------------------------------
    CHM64K <00> UNIQUE Registered
    CHM64K <20> UNIQUE Registered
    SOURCE1 <00> GROUP Registered
    SOURCE1 <1E> GROUP Registered
    SOURCE1 <1D> UNIQUE Registered
    ..__MSBROWSE__.<01> GROUP Registered
    C:\Documents and Settings\Cal>ipconfig
    Windows IP Configuration

    Ethernet adapter Network Bridge (Network Bridge) 9:
    Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
    Autoconfiguration IP Address. . . : 169.254.219.17
    Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.0.0
    Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :
    Ethernet adapter Wireless Network Connection:
    Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : ed.shawcable.net
    IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.101
    Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
    Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
    C:\Documents and Settings\Cal>


    The Win98 laptop (named IBM):

    Microsoft(R) Windows 98
    (C)Copyright Microsoft Corp 1981-1999.
    C:\WINDOWS\Desktop>nbtstat -n

    Node IpAddress: [192.168.0.103] Scope Id: []
    NetBIOS Local Name Table
    Name Type Status
    --------------------------------------------
    IBM <00> UNIQUE Registered
    SOURCE1 <00> GROUP Registered
    IBM <03> UNIQUE Registered
    IBM <20> UNIQUE Registered
    SOURCE1 <1E> GROUP Registered
    SOURCE1 <1D> UNIQUE Registered
    ..__MSBROWSE__.<01> GROUP Registered
    CAL <03> UNIQUE Registered

    C:\WINDOWS\Desktop>ipconfig
    Windows 98 IP Configuration
    0 Ethernet adapter :
    IP Address. . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0
    Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0
    Default Gateway . . . . . . :
    1 Ethernet adapter :
    IP Address. . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0
    Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0
    Default Gateway . . . . . . :
    2 Ethernet adapter :
    IP Address. . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.103
    Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
    Default Gateway . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
     
  9. TerryNet

    TerryNet Moderator

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    First Name:
    Terry
    I don't understand your network, but I can assure you that John wants to see the ipconfig /all, not just ipconfig. What connections constitute the bridge on CHM64k?
     
  10. JohnWill

    JohnWill Retired Moderator

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    Yep, the IPCONFIG /ALL is what I asked for.
     
  11. calydon

    calydon Thread Starter

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    Nov 14, 2008
    Messages:
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    ah! my apologies.

    Here is the ipconfig /all info:

    Microsoft Windows [Version 5.2.3790]
    (C) Copyright 1985-2003 Microsoft Corp.
    C:\Documents and Settings\Cal>ipconfig /all
    Windows IP Configuration
    Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : CHM64K
    Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :
    Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Unknown
    IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
    WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
    DNS Suffix Search List. . . . . . : ed.shawcable.net
    Ethernet adapter Network Bridge (Network Bridge) 9:
    Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
    Description . . . . . . . . . . . : MAC Bridge Miniport
    Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 02-18-F3-67-61-9F
    Ethernet adapter Wireless Network Connection:
    Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : ed.shawcable.net
    Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Realtek RTL8187 Wireless 802.11g 54Mbps U
    SB 2.0 Network Adapter
    Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-15-AF-09-A6-45
    DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
    Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
    IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.101
    Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
    Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
    DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
    DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 208.67.222.222
    208.67.220.220
    Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Sunday, November 16, 2008 5:43:34 PM
    Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Sunday, November 23, 2008 5:43:34 PM
    C:\Documents and Settings\Cal>


    Windows 98 IP Configuration
    Host Name . . . . . . . . . : IBM.ed.shawcable.netDEST
    DNS Servers . . . . . . . . : 208.67.222.222
    208.67.220.220
    Node Type . . . . . . . . . : Broadcast
    NetBIOS Scope ID. . . . . . :
    IP Routing Enabled. . . . . : No
    WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . : No
    NetBIOS Resolution Uses DNS : No
    0 Ethernet adapter :
    Description . . . . . . . . : PPP Adapter.
    Physical Address. . . . . . : 44-45-53-54-00-00
    DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . : Yes
    IP Address. . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0
    Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0
    Default Gateway . . . . . . :
    DHCP Server . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.255
    Primary WINS Server . . . . :
    Secondary WINS Server . . . :
    Lease Obtained. . . . . . . :
    Lease Expires . . . . . . . :
    1 Ethernet adapter :
    Description . . . . . . . . : PPP Adapter.
    Physical Address. . . . . . : 44-45-53-54-00-01
    DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . : Yes
    IP Address. . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0
    Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0
    Default Gateway . . . . . . :
    DHCP Server . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.255
    Primary WINS Server . . . . :
    Secondary WINS Server . . . :
    Lease Obtained. . . . . . . :
    Lease Expires . . . . . . . :
    2 Ethernet adapter :
    Description . . . . . . . . : IBM 10/100 EtherJet CardBus Adapter
    Physical Address. . . . . . : 00-06-29-92-52-6A
    DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . : Yes
    IP Address. . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.103
    Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
    Default Gateway . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
    DHCP Server . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
    Primary WINS Server . . . . :
    Secondary WINS Server . . . :
    Lease Obtained. . . . . . . : 11 16 08 7:32:02 PM
    Lease Expires . . . . . . . : 11 23 08 7:32:02 PM
     
  12. JohnWill

    JohnWill Retired Moderator

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    Did you bridge the wireless connector to the connection going to the W98 machine? It appears you bridged the two Ethernet connections. Remote that network bridge and bridge the proper two connections.
     
  13. calydon

    calydon Thread Starter

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    I can confirm I bridged the ethernet and the wireless (at first). The other ethernet connection has been disabled, and cannot be bridged. (Can I make use of it somehow??)

    However, what I did later was unusual. I bridged the connections, then, because internet stopped working on either computer, I removed the wireless connection from the bridge. This currently allows me to transfer files back and forth to/from the two computers over the network and I have internet on the desktop through the wireless connection.

    I don't have internet on the laptop. Furthermore, when I try to ping 192.168.0.101 from the laptop it times out. When I try to ping 192.168.0.103 from the desktop, it times out.

    That seems weird to me, but I must be overlooking something. I could not get any kind of network thing going without doing the strange semi-bridge technique that I've tried here. It may not be the best way to do things. I am fully prepared to try something else, but I have run out of ideas.

    I am interested in knowing if there are any settings I should be changing on the laptop, in win98. I'm thinking of LAN settings, proxy settings or the like. Maybe it's not possible for IBM to find the wireless connection (the internet) because that's now out of the bridge.

    Mysteries: If IBM can see CHM64k on the network, why can't it ping it? If the wireless connection must remain in the bridge for this to work, why do I lose internet on both computers as soon as I bridge wireless and ethernet?
     
  14. JohnWill

    JohnWill Retired Moderator

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    I've done the exact process you're trying to do here, and it always worked for me.

    Let's give ICS a try, not sure why Bridging isn't working.


    Take a look at this Microsoft ICS (Internet Connection Sharing tutorial.
     
  15. calydon

    calydon Thread Starter

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    Messages:
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    Some new information has come to light.

    For about 60 seconds I was revelling in a small victory, when I tried
    -make the bridge
    -repair the wireless connection
    -repair the bridge connection

    and I had internet on both machines. However, after about a minute. I lost internet again.

    Now I'm thinking this may have something to do with a poor wireless router. I may replace it and check results. In the meantime I have disabled the wireless and hooked up a LONG ethernet cable to the 2nd ethernet port, to the router, and then I bridged those two connections. This works just fine.

    Does that establish anything for certain?

    As for ICS - I thought that would work, but it turns out "The ICS server computer must have two network connections: one for the Internet, and one for the local area network. The Internet connection may be a dial-up (PPP or ISDN), cable modem, DSL, or other broadband Ethernet connection"

    In my configuration, the ICS server has only wireless for the internet connection. That comes from the article you posted.

    I think we're pretty close to a workable solution (can't leave the long cable lying around -it's a hazard) and this is getting interesting.
     
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