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Losing CD-R drive after copying CD on CD-RW drive

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by GyBear, Oct 17, 2002.

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  1. GyBear

    GyBear Thread Starter

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    The box is a Compaq Presario running Win98. The LG CRD-8322B (CD-R, E: ) is set as Master, the Lite-On LTR-12101B (CD-RW, F: ) is Slave on the same controller.

    Everything works well, system configuration is A1, etc.

    But, after copying a CD (From E: to F: ), I can't access drive E: anymore (Win Explorer Drive not accessible Error box).

    Rebooting Win98 clears everything.
     
  2. steamwiz

    steamwiz

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    It is not recommended to have a CD-Rom and CD-RW on the same IDE - this can cause all sorts of problems.

    Put your CD-Rom and harddrive on one IDE - and your RW on another

    Not guarranteed to solve it - but just could be your problem.
     
  3. GyBear

    GyBear Thread Starter

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    Yes, I've heard it too. But I never got a sound justification for it. People say all sorts of things.

    Now, I have written documentation from Artec that states:
    I am quite sure Artec is not looking for trouble by putting such recommendation in writing. Moreover, I should add it makes a lot more sense to me putting 2 devices of the same kind (I'm talking protocol here) on the same cable that 2 dissimilar ones.

    And since I already normally don't look too kindly on magical (i.e. unexplained) solutions, I'm even less ready to buy a $30 48-inch IDE cable just to try one.
     
  4. steamwiz

    steamwiz

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    This is completely the opposite of what I have learned - but I have seen similar documentation to that which you quote - and I am not convinced of that.

    All I can say is that I have my computer set up as I suggested to you - and I never have any problems
     
  5. slipe

    slipe

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    Many manufacturers recommend the burner be on the same channel as your other optical device like a CD-ROM or DVD. Most prefer the burner to be master, but some like Artec want it to be slave. You can’t go far wrong following instructions.

    I don’t understand why you are applying Artec instructions to a LG or Lite-On burner however. I’m guessing that the LG is a CD-ROM drive and not a CD-R as you say. In that case Lite-On prefers to be master – reverse the jumpers.

    A single channel will carry only 1 signal at a time. So if you are recording from the reader to the burner on the same channel the data will not move as fast as it would if they were on separate channels. So if you can’t copy at full speed with them on the same channel you might do better putting the CD-ROM as slave to the HD on the primary and leaving the burner by itself on the secondary as master. On many systems it makes no difference as the limitation is other than the bus speed. It is recommended by both Nero and Feurio software to set it up that way while many manufacturer’s instructions want them on the same channel. You can’t do any harm moving the CD-ROM to primary slave and it could help.

    What is more likely to help would be to update the firmware for the burner and update the burning software.
     
  6. GyBear

    GyBear Thread Starter

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    slipe,

    Isn't it peculiar for different manufacturers to provide opposite instructions? Do you see what I have against magic?

    I stand to be corrected, but I am under the impression that you shouldn't just reverse the jumpers without switching connections as well, for a master device should be at the cable's end.
    Here, it would then mean physically swapping the two devices since my IDE cable is too short.

    Still standing for correction, I have yet to see one app using both CD reader and burner at the same time. On the other hand, all apps I know of are using both CD and HDD at the same time (excluding strict CD playing ones, of course). That's another reason why you should avoid connecting a 2nd EIDE drive with the same controller that is used by the HD drive (that should always be the board's Primary IDE Controller).

    What difference do you make between a "CD-ROM drive and a CD-R"?

    How do you update a burner's firmware?

    I am using Adaptec Easy CD Creator 4.02d (and Direct CD 3.01) and the drivers that came with the drives. Adaptec ASPI drivers are 4.71 and ASPICheck doesn't report any conflict between these and Win98 ASPI drivers.

    I now have another question. I happened -by mistake- to have only one driver loaded in CONFIG.SYS (the CD-ROM one). It did NOT make any difference at all.
    So, do you really to have add a line in CONFIG.SYS to load a CD device driver (unless you are booting to DOS, that is)?

    I had originally posted this thread on the Win98 forum since I think it's indeed a software problem. Now, the moderator might decide to switch it back there.
     
  7. slipe

    slipe

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    Different manufacturers provide different instructions because their units are all different. Burner software has to be modified for each burner, which is why you have to upgrade the software if you get a new burner. If you have a Lite-On you should follow Lite-On’s instructions. Your preconceptions are the magic and the manufacturer’s instructions are the real world.

    It doesn’t matter whether the master device is on the end or in the middle. I’ve read there can sometimes be problems with the master device not on the end connector with 80 wire ATA cables, but you aren’t likely to have your optical devices hooked up with anything but standard 40 wire ribbon cable.

    CD-R is a burner. All of the early burners were CD-R, which record only but do not re-record. A CD-ROM is a reader.

    Download the firmware from Lite-On: http://www.liteonit.com/index-english.htm
    Some instructions: http://dyzan.myftp.org/network/liteon/

    Only very old (like 2-4X) CD-ROM drives required real mode drivers. Normally Windows provides everything needed. There should be NO drivers for your burner so I am curious what drivers you are talking about with ”the drivers that came with the drives”.

    Many people record directly from the CD-ROM to the burner, and that is the function that normally causes the most throughput problems. If you don't intend to copy either audio or program CDs there is no reason to consider putting the CD-ROM drive slave on the primary. You might not need to do it even then.
     
  8. Vypr

    Vypr

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    The main reason for not having a CD-ROM and CD Burner on the same IDE channel is because it can cause problems when doing direct disk copying.

    You can only read from and write to 1 drive on an IDE chain at a timeWhen direct copying a CD,you are reading from one drive and simultaneously writing to the other., which is impossible if they are both on the same cable.

    On older burners it was vital that there was a steady flow of data to the burner or you would end up with a coaster, it's not so much a problem nowadays with all sorts of burn-proofing methods and extra large buffers, but it is more reliable to have the drives on seperate chains.
     
  9. slipe

    slipe

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    ”You can only read from and write to 1 drive on an IDE chain at a timeWhen direct copying a CD,you are reading from one drive and simultaneously writing to the other., which is impossible if they are both on the same cable”

    That is absolutely untrue. The channel alternates sending and receiving between the devices. Since it alternates at a high frequency the throughput is often sufficient for both devices. Many people have high speed readers and burners on the same channel and are able to record on the fly at full speed between them. Some systems have bus limitations that allow faster recording if the channels are separated. It just depends on the system and components whether the speed is as fast sharing a single channel as it would be if you separated the reader and writer to separate channels. It is theoretically faster to separate them but in practice it often isn’t required. Most of the manufacturers recommend the burner be on the same channel as the reader because it usually works fine that way.

    The Lite-On 12101B has Burn-proof buffer underrun protection. But you shouldn’t have it engage constantly as it considerably slows the recording and can induce noise in audio recordings. Burn-proof is primarily so you can use your computer normally, and if you do something that hogs a lot of CPU cycles you won’t get a coaster. It shouldn’t be used to compensate for a bad bus setup. Better to fix the transfer problem or record at slower speed.
     
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