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Network Basics - security

Discussion in 'Networking' started by PerkyMite, Sep 29, 2008.

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  1. PerkyMite

    PerkyMite Thread Starter

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    Hi Guys,

    Can some nice person explain how the security set up for an Infrastructure wireless network works?

    The network is as follows.

    Orange Wireless router connected to a hub.

    Two computers connected by Ethernet to the hub. One of these is the Internet Connection Sharing Host Computer.

    A bridge is connected to the hub.

    Three computers connected by Wireless AP device via the Bridge.


    1. I keep reading that a Wireless router comes with its own firewall (I think!). If this is so do I need a Firewall and Anti Virus software on the computers behind the router Firewall.

    2. If 1 above is not correct do I need a Firewall and anti Virus on just the Internet Connection Host Computer, all others having access only through this gateway.

    3. If they all need Firewalls and anti Virus is there anything I should note when setting them up?

    4. Is the Internet Connection Sharing Host computer in this set up a Residential Gateway

    Many thanks for the help.
     
  2. JohnWill

    JohnWill Retired Moderator

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    You certainly need an AV application, and I recommend a spyware scanner as well. The firewall is a personal choice, and will be dictated on what kind of browsing you do. If you go to unknown sites a lot, you may want to have a firewall on each computer. OTOH, I've run my network here for years with no software firewalls, and I have no issues.

    There is no "Internet Connection Sharing Host" with a router, all the machines are peers on the network. I don't quite understand what you're doing with ICS in this picture.
     
  3. PerkyMite

    PerkyMite Thread Starter

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    AAAHHHHHHHH. Just when I thought I had it, it has slipped from my grasp!!!!:mad:

    The set up above has been installed by a professional networking guy. Unfortunately, he is not around to help me understand what he has done now, clearly I have something wrong.

    I should add John that I have no real Computer background, I worked in wood, – although, I did build my own computer for my 60th birthday and it is still going strong 6 years later.

    I am trying to learn something about networking. So I have made understanding this Network my pet project/homework, because, this is a working Network. Eventually I want to make additions, deletions or alterations to it as my Grandchildren grow up. And, especially check and improve when necessary the security for them

    So back to the problem:

    If I disconnect the computer that is at present the “Internet sharing host computer (I think)” the link to the network goes down. None of the computers can access the Internet.

    So am I right or wrong is this a Internet Sharing Host Computer? And is this called a Residential Gateway? Or, is it something completely different - A server for example (guessing obviously :D )

    Thanks for your help John
     
  4. JohnWill

    JohnWill Retired Moderator

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    I suspect that if you have one computer that all the others connect through, it's running ICS (Internet Connection Sharing). Truthfully, I'd be inclined to use a broadband router, it's MUCH simpler and more reliable in the long run.

    I'd like to know the exact make/model of the modem, the hub, the bridge, and EXACTLY how all the wires are connected, including the label on the jacks for each wire.

    To find out if you're using ICS, on the "host" machine, please do this.

    Hold the Windows key and press R, then type CMD to open a command prompt:

    In the command prompt window that opens, type type the following command:

    Note that there is a space before the /ALL, but there is NOT a space after the / in the following command.

    IPCONFIG /ALL

    Right click in the command window and choose Select All, then hit Enter.
    Paste the results in a message here.

    If you are on a machine with no network connection, use a floppy, USB disk, or a CD-RW disk to transfer a text file with the information to allow pasting it here.
     
  5. PerkyMite

    PerkyMite Thread Starter

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    Thanks John. There will be a slight delay in replying to this, but "I will return" - bank on it.

    many thanks
     
  6. JohnWill

    JohnWill Retired Moderator

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    We'll be right here, if we're not on vacation. :D
     
  7. PerkyMite

    PerkyMite Thread Starter

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    Thanks for the direction John that was a good exercise. We had to look at the actual kit and not refer to it by ad hoc names that have been used in the past – sorry should have checked it myself but my daughter lives some distance from me.

    The Ipconfig info is as follows:

    This is the present network set up:

    Orange Livebox EA50 model DV-4210-WU
    (The only link I can find on this is http://www.orange.co.uk/time/livebox/ )
    This is plugged into the telephone wall socket. Nowhere does it actually say that it is a Router – puzzled.

    An orange coloured cable connects the livebox EA50 to a Corega FSW 5PM
    (link www.dooyoo.co.uk/hubs-switches/corega-fsw-5pm/ ).

    Connected to the Corega by Ethernet cables are the following:

    Computer One has the Laser printer attached
    Computer Two has the Epson ink jet attached which is set up to be shared
    Computer three - ICS computer
    And, a Belkin Wireless/Ethernet Bridge/switch 802.11g S5D 7330
    (link http://www.belkin.com/support/article/?lid=en&pid=F5D7330&aid=5340&scid=223) Again this has been referred to as a hub but I believe that is a different piece of kit.

    All of this is in the same room. Computer Three is the Internet Connection Host. (When it is switched off nobody can get on the Internet) it is not in use for anything else and resides under a desk!

    Computer Four with a Belkin Wireless AP is in another room.

    Computer Five is not connected.

    The Epson Printer is a shared printer. The laser printer is not.

    Firstly, I am trying to understand what and how this has been set up in order that when I read about peer to peer or Infrastructure I know what I am looking at.

    I then wish to alter the network as follows.

    I want to start using Computer Three (ICS Computer) as a normal computer. Whilst leaving it as the ICS computer if necessary. It can remain connected by Ethernet as it it will remain in the same room. Is there any reason why I should not do this and any points to look out for?

    Disconnect computer Two from its Ethernet link and move it into my Grandson’s room. Buy a Wireless AP for this computer and then connect it by Wireless. Is there anything I should be aware of in doing this?

    Connect computer Five up to the network by buying another Wireless AP.

    Make the Laser printer a shared computer.

    I should then have computers One and Three connected by Ethernet (in the same room with the Bridge/switch) and Three, Four and Five connected by Wireless. And both printers shared.

    Is this the best set up for this configuration? My Daughter does not want to run cables around the house (four kids are enough LOL).
     
  8. JohnWill

    JohnWill Retired Moderator

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    Well, obviously that Orange box is a router, since you're getting a 192.168.x.x address from it.

    I don't understand how you managed to wire this up in such a convoluted manner! :)

    I'd connect that Belkin AP directly to the Orange router to supply wireless capability to the network.

    Any computers to be directly wired can simply connect directly to that switch connected to the Orange router. Any wireless machines will link to the Belkin AP. Obviously, for the other wireless machines, they'll have to have wireless hardware in order to connect.
     
  9. PerkyMite

    PerkyMite Thread Starter

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    Hi John,

    I think you hit the "hub" of the problem, I did not wire it up :confused:. Now I need a "rout(er)* to "switch" all computers on :D:D

    A bit of basics again here I am afraid:

    If the orange "router" is a wireless device why do I need to attach the Belkin Wireless/Ethernet Bridge to it? Why can I not just place Wireless APs in all the computers and work to that Router?

    Thanks

    Perky
     
  10. JohnWill

    JohnWill Retired Moderator

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    Is the Orange router a wireless router? If so, you don't need the Belkin bridge, I missed that part of the description. You also don't need another router, you already have one.
     
  11. PerkyMite

    PerkyMite Thread Starter

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    Hi John,

    Yes, it definitely is a Wireless Modem. Orange Livebox EA50 model DV-4210-WU (The only link I can find on this is http://www.orange.co.uk/time/livebox/ ) In the FAQ it says you should not connect more than 6 devices to it. So although it does not say “router” in the description it is, correct?

    It has been one of the things I have struggled to understand. By putting in the Wireless/Ethernet Bridge did that shut down the Orange “router” Wireless capability or were they both broadcasting? They are situated within 3 feet of each other. (See previous posting for the set up).

    Perhaps you can understand why a novice is so puzzled. It would help me a great deal if you could explain how this worked.
     
  12. JohnWill

    JohnWill Retired Moderator

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    It is a router, if it were not, it would not supply private IP addresses. A diagram of how all of this is connected would be real useful here. I see no reason that one computer should be configured so that the whole network depends on it.

    I think I need to see the following from each of the computers on the network, perhaps that will shed some light on it.



    Hold the Windows key and press R, then type CMD to open a command prompt:

    In the command prompt window that opens, type type the following commands, one at a time, followed by the Enter key:

    Note that there is a space before the -n or the /ALL, but there is NOT a space after the - or / in the following commands.

    NBTSTAT -n

    IPCONFIG /ALL

    Right click in the command window and choose Select All, then hit Enter.
    Paste the results in a message here.

    If you are on a machine with no network connection, use a floppy, USB disk, or a CD-RW disk to transfer a text file with the information to allow pasting it here.
     
  13. PerkyMite

    PerkyMite Thread Starter

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    Hi John I think the attachement should show you it all - opps did not seem to work. have to try again
     
  14. PerkyMite

    PerkyMite Thread Starter

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    Hi John still sorting the information you wanted out.

    In the meantime could you answer this for me:

    Could you explain how the Orange Wireless Router and the Belkin Wireless/Ethernet Bridge work together?

    Do they both broadcast the network name or does one supersede the other?

    If I connect a computer up to the network, by wireless AP, does it work to the Orange wirless router or the Belkin Bridge?

    Reading John Ross's book "The book of Wireless" 2nd edition - superb book.
     
  15. JohnWill

    JohnWill Retired Moderator

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    They would be on different channels, other than being on the same subnet, they don't really "work together". You'll still disconnect and reconnect to transition between the two wireless devices.

    I have had up to four wireless routers or AP's running here, you just get a choice of places to connect. :)
     
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