New and better posting approach

[zebanovich]

When you post something and later decide to add more information (while you're the last poster in a thread) that means either:
1. Creating new post OR
2. Editing existing one

I think both cases are not good enough:
1. Creating new post means
- Sending additional email to thread subscribers, I'm sure not everybody likes to have
two or more mail notifications for one and same, or related thing, and might result in disabling this forum option.
- Will result in 2 posts by same poster which makes the thread less clean (or should I say, look like spamming the thread)
- Also results in boosting poster's message count just for updates.

2. Editing existing one results in warning:

Editing? Your original post may have already been sent to others as an email notification. Feel free to make edits here, especially if it's only for spelling or grammar, but for significant changes it's a good idea to post a new reply to bring it to the attention of others.

This warning confirms this issue "for our information" that a newcomer should take care of something that could be easily automated.

My suggestion is when we post additional information, then the new content is automatically added to last post but in such a manner that the
original post is visibly "updated", for example my initial post:

This is original post

Now we add new info by adding a new reply:

This is additional information added later

End result is single post (instead of 2 separate posts) like this:

This is original post

Updated [timestamp here]

This is additional information added later

What's the major benefit here?
1. The thread looks cleaner (less posts by same user)
2. Poster doesn't boost it's message count just for updating his post
3. email notification is optionally sent multiple times for each update, making our emails cleaner too.
4. Push notification is always generated for updates but never for edits, this makes the thread act like a live chat.

For the point 3, a user should be able to disable being notified via email for additional post updates by same user, this could be the default,
and if a user decides he wants to get mail notification for single post updates (those by same user to their own posts) why not?

For the point 4, push notifications can now show it's full and better potential, updates done to existing post should always result in push notification being generated,
while edits to post should not, if all thread participants are online, the benefit is that the thread would act as a live chat,
because for each update to last post the participants would be notified so there is no need for them to refresh page or to go read if last poster modified something.
Well most people don't refresh page and don't re-read last post anyway, so it's definitely a plus.

And if the poster explicitly wants to edit his original message (instead of adding new content) then his post should be marked as "edited"
so that everybody can see this, in which case there will be no automatic update of post such as Updated [timestamp here] explained before.

In which case (above example) the post would look like this:

This is original post
This is additional information added later
Edited by USERNAME [timestamp here]

I believe by using this approach the warning message should then be reworked to something like this:

Editing? Your original post may have already been sent to others as an email notification. Feel free to make grammar and formatting edits here only, otherwise please create a new reply to auto update existing post and notify subscribers via email and push notifications about your update.

I'm sure you see a big difference and multiple benefits here?

 

[Johnny b]

As far as editing posts, I do make mistakes ranging from grammar to poor ( and sometimes incorrect ) choice of words and I'm a poor typist.
How could the difference between these small inconsequential mistakes be differentiated from additional info or contextual changes?

 

[zebanovich]

fixing grammar or adding formatting to existing content does not change the content and does not change the meaning of a message.

Additional information may change the meaning, add missing steps, nullify or change previous message and it's meaning.

You may accidentally write something wrong or lacking, if you update your post the subscriber would be immediately notified.
If you just edit your post for grammar or formatting no notification of any kind is made.

EDIT:
Another difference, updating should be done (possible) only if you're last poster, but editing can be made to any of your posts in thread regardless if somebody already posted or not.

If somebody posted already then you either make a brand new post (reply) or edit previous post (not productive)

 

[Johnny b]

But who decides noting the changes ?
Software or the individual or a combo?

We already have the voluntary option of denoting a change.
Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't.
Sometimes it doesn't alter the intent, sometimes I simply forget to denote an edit.

To apply this to everyone, it seems a software issue.
And I see absolutes possibly making more issues.

I don't do email notifications, so I'm not aware of the specific issues there.


( and I just did an edit)

 

[zebanovich]

But who decides noting the changes ?

When you post a reply to thread where you are the last poster then "Post reply" button does not add new reply but instead updates existing reply (which is the last one)

No action on user side, so yes the job of forum software would be to check if you (the poster) are the last poster in that thread.
otherwise if somebody replied already, "Post reply" would result in brand new reply instead of updating your post.

We already have the voluntary option of denoting a change.
Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't.

Exactly, other people may not even notice your change.
Push notification would take care of that, and in the same time no email is sent by default, most of which is already configurable in forum options but not for this change if accepted.

 

[Cookiegal]

Creating new post means
- Sending additional email to thread subscribers, I'm sure not everybody likes to have
two or more mail notifications for one and same, or related thing, and might result in disabling this forum option.

I choose not to receive email notifications. You can opt to click on Watched which will show all new posts to threads that you haven't read yet or click on "Find threads where you've posted" on the right side to get a list where you can easily spot any new replies if you don't want to receive emails.

Will result in 2 posts by same poster which makes the thread less clean (or should I say, look like spamming the thread)

I disagree. As replies are added the threads get longer and longer anyway. Plus we have made it so a thread starter can make one additional reply and still have their thread appear in the list of "Unanswered threads".

Also results in boosting poster's message count just for updates

I don't see a problem with that.

Push notification is always generated for updates but never for edits, this makes the thread act like a live chat.

If I receive push notifications for every time a post is updated I'll have to turn them off and I like getting them for some things. Plus this site is not a live chat and I wouldn't want to see it turn into that.

And if the poster explicitly wants to edit his original message (instead of adding new content) then his post should be marked as "edited"so that everybody can see this

This already happens. There is only a 5-minute window where there will be no notation of an edit but after 5 minutes it will be noted

I'm sure you see a big difference and multiple benefits here?

Not for me.

 

[zebanovich]

Not for me.

ok no problem, we are of completely the opposite opinions in this matter, I feel like I must give some more explanation for the confusing parts..

I choose not to receive email notifications.

Me to, but maybe somebody else who doesn't will do so too which may not be desired use of that function.

we have made it so a thread starter can make one additional reply and still have their thread appear in the list of "Unanswered threads".

I see, you're right but, this change could easily take that into account so that it does not break this feature which is great btw.

I don't see a problem with that.

Ok, not really relevant indeed for this feature.

If I receive push notifications for every time a post is updated I'll have to turn them off

Agree, could be disabled by default or on demand.

This already happens. There is only a 5-minute window where there will be no notation of an edit

I noticed this but didn't know how it works!

Plus this site is not a live chat and I wouldn't want to see it turn into that.

Ah I suppose your concern is that it would be harder to moderate it?
Otherwise if not, these tinny features could be configurable per user, ex. off by default.

 

[Cookiegal]

ok no problem, we are of completely the opposite opinions in this matter,

And that's OK. Everyone is entitled to their opinion which is why we have these discussions.

Me to, but maybe somebody else who doesn't will do so too which may not be desired use of that function.

I'm not sure I follow on this one. If you want to receive email notifications then that's why people turn them on so they get notified of a new reply. What you seem to be saying is they could choose to have email notifications but not receive email notifications?

Agree, could be disabled by default or on demand.

This was regarding push notification (just to clarify what I quoted) and I realize that I can just keep them on for conversations. You also have the ability to enable push notifications or alerts for replies to posts which seems to be what you want?

noticed this but didn't know how it works!

And this was regarding the 5-minute edit window. I would be fine with doing away with that window if Mike agrees because all it does it say the post was edited. But of course you still have to refresh your browser to see that there was an edit and it still should not be for adding new information.

Ah I suppose your concern is that it would be harder to moderate it?

No my concern is it would degrade the quality of a terrific site by turning it into a chat place where people expect to get help in real-time.

these tinny features could be configurable per user, ex. off by default.

Many of them already are, i.e. push notifications, alerts and email notifications.

 

[Macboatmaster]

No my concern is it would degrade the quality of a terrific site by turning it into a chat place where people expect to get help in real-time.

I think amongst the suggestions that were made to change certain aspects -
This aspect mentioned by Cookiegal is the most important.

I know of some computer tech sites where the edit, does show as an edit to the original post. However as far as I know, the actual email notification, of the post sent to the thread starter, does not on those sites, show what has been posted - as it does on this site.

I may be missing the exact meaning behind some of the points being made in the suggestions by zebanovich, but I fail to see any real benefits for either the thread starter or the member assisting.

 

[TechGuy]

It's worth mentioning that if you reply twice to a thread, it only generates one email to each person following that thread. The email includes the note, "You will not receive any further emails about this thread until you have read the new messages." Following a thread only gets you a notice that someone replies, but not a notice of each reply.

Many sites don't show the content of the reply in the email for this reason. Also, it helps to encourage people to come back and may increase the odds of someone reporting a solution.

 

[zebanovich]

No problem, maybe I should have written my request differently but in it's core it's similar on how
"post quick reply" works in tenforums, it's the only forum having this feature which did
not exist there before either.

I didn't see this feature anywhere else on the internet in forums or anywhere else, I find it cool, and
that made me consider to write a request for similar feature here.

 

[TechGuy]

I've never heard of that feature, either. Thanks for mentioning it! Who knows, maybe I'll reconsider, especially if it becomes an easy change to XenForo, but I think the current system is the simplest for the moment.