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New Build problems.

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by Yeoman1000, Nov 10, 2011.

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  1. Yeoman1000

    Yeoman1000 Thread Starter

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    Okay, I'm new to building computers, but I took a lot of care when assembling my parts (and used an antistatic wrist strap). I haven't yet installed an OS. First I'll list what components I have:

    Intel i5-2500k (with stock cooler).
    Asus P8P67 Intel P67 B3 Revision.

    Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C8 1600MHz Dual Channel
    MSI ATI Radeon HD 6850 Cyclone Power Edition 1024MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card

    Samsung SH-B123L
    Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB SATA 6Gb/s 32MB Cache

    Zalman Z9 plus case (its got four fans, one at the top, one in the rear, one in the front at the bottom, and one in the side)
    Antec HCG 620w

    There are four main issues I seem to be having:

    (1) CPU overheats (shows 97/70 degrees Celcius)
    (2) On the first 'info' screen at bootup, I get a "Hard disk not detected message"
    (3) PC almost always turns on, turns off, then turns back on again when booting.


    (1) Regarding the CPU overheating; I think this is my fault. When I turned it on for the very first time, I hadn't got the cooler in properly, so two of the pins came lose when the fan came on. My impression was this spoilt the spread of the stock paste, and was probably the reason for the same 97 degree C on subsequent boots(after locking the cooler in properly).
    After initially correctly attaching the cooler, I subsequently took it off again, and then put it back on; this seemed to have some effect, and temps where at 65ish, when i got into the BIOS, but would rise into the red after about 60 seconds.
    On account of this, I felt sure that replacing the thermal paste would alleviate the overheating worry. I ordered some AS5, that came with some paste remover and primer as well. I removed the paste from the cpu and heatsink, and then applied the AS5 to the cpu as seen in videos, put the heatsink over it to spread the paste and locked it in place.
    However; the cpu temp starts at about 55degreeC, and it still steadily rises (it seems to level out at 69/70 degreeC after about 5 minutes, and then stayed that way for another 15 or so that I had it on). I don't know if theres something I've done wrong, or if I used to much or too little paste, or didn't clean the surfaces well enough or what. I'm very confused and a little glum. Also, the CPU fan was operating around 2000-2200 RPM if that helps. I've read in some places that because I'm in BIOS, my cpu temp will be high because the cpu isn't being moderated by an OS? (as in, its going flat out because it hasn't been told to idle when doing nothing). Still, 70 seems awfully high, shouldn't it be around 40?

    (2) Hard disk not detected message: From what I can tell everything is connected properly, and is in all the way etc. In the BIOS the make/model is recognised in the boot options section, so how would the BIOS know that I had WD drive if it wasn't detected? Could this be down to the fact that the drive is currently unformated/that I havent installed an OS yet?

    (3)PC starts up, and all the fans come on; everything turns on as far as I can tell. Then the fans seem to go quiet, and the system turns off, then turns on again after a few seconds and then works as normal (as in going to a screen telling me to set a boot option, or into the BIOS if I hit delete fast enough). I don't know if this is a big problem or not. but I assume there must be a reason for it happening.


    Okay, well I think thats everything of use I can think to mention off the top of my head. Thanks for reading, I'd appreciate any help anyone can offer.
    Dan.
     
  2. Elvandil

    Elvandil

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    First of all, how can you boot if you have no OS?

    Yes, it sounds too hot. The paste is not as good a conductor as metal-to-metal conatct, so the purpose of the paste is just to fill in the microscopic spaces where metal does not touch metal. It should be used sparingly.

    The OS has nothing to do with the temps at boot. The CPU is basically doing nothing and will really be stressed the most during OS boot and during the OS installation. So if it is hot now, it will only be hotter when you try to run an OS.

    I'd clean off that paste and start again. And again after that, if necessary. Getting the CPU to cool down is probably your most important task right now.

    Yes, the message may be badly worded. It may be that the system simply detects no bootable device and said no hard drive. You'll know for sure when you try to install.
     
  3. dant22185

    dant22185

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    Bootable device means that there is no OS installed. Like what was mentioned earlier your first priority is to get the CPU cool then format the drive and install the OS.
     
  4. win2kpro

    win2kpro

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    As to the heat problem, remove the cooler and clean the heatsink and the processor heatspreader until both parts are clean and perfectly dry.

    Apply the AS5 thermal compound using this method;

    http://www.innovationcooling.com/applicationinstructions.htm

    I use both Innovation Cooling and Arctic Silver 5 thermal compound and these instructions work wll with both compounds.

    Don't forget when removing the cooler it's a 2 step process. #1- Turn the push pins 90° COUNTERCLOCKWISE and #2- Lift UP on the top of the pin to fully unlock it. Make sure you turn the top of the pins back 90° CLOCKWISE before reinstalling the cooler so the pins will lock to the board.
     
  5. dant22185

    dant22185

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    A good cleaning compound that I always use is isopropyl alcohol. I also am a firm believer of IC Diamond 7 as the best thermal compound.
     
  6. Yeoman1000

    Yeoman1000 Thread Starter

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    Thank you very much for the replies.

    I've just gotten back from university, I will reapply the thermal paste later tonight, and this time hopefully it will have more of an impact. I'll post the results when I've done it.

    One thing I will mention is that last night, idle for something to do, I reseated the heatsink, and somehow this made the temp decrease slightly to a stable 63/64 degree C. So, I'm hoping this is an indicator that correct paste application will allieviate the heat problem.

    One question I do have is, with the stock cooler (and what I believe to be one of the better thermal compunds-Arctic Silver 5), what temperature should I roughly be expecting to get?


    Thanks, Dan.
     
  7. Elvandil

    Elvandil

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    That's really hard to say. I wouldn't expect the 40 that you mentioned, though. The lower, the better, of course, because even 10 degrees shortens the components life by half. At 20, it's one-quarter.

    But by way of an example, my BIOS allows for automatic shutdown at 65, 75, or 85 degrees (C.). I have it set to 65, and since I set it a year ago, it only shut down twice. So that means it runs close to 65 at times and rarely goes over that. I'd really prefer it lower, like 55, most of the time. But apparently the manufacturer thinks that 85 is a maximum that is also acceptable (not to me :D). I'd say that if you are getting in the below-65 range now, that if you get it lower than that, you're doing pretty well.
     
  8. win2kpro

    win2kpro

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    The i5 2500K has a Tc of 72.6°C. I haven't built a system with that particular processor, however I would guess with a chassis with good thermal design and the standard Intel cooler it should probably idle in the low 40°C range.

    On LGA processors it's imperative that the cooler is seated properly and the thermal compound is distributed properly. That is why I use the "single dot" method of applying thermal compound. The compression when locking the cooler down does a great job of spreading the compound evenly.

    Did you purchase a boxed processor, i.e a processor with an included Intel cooler?
    Was the seal on the box intact?
    What is the Intel part number on the cooler? It should be on the sticker right on top of the cooler.
     
  9. Yeoman1000

    Yeoman1000 Thread Starter

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    It did come boxed with an intel cooler, it was sealed, and the cooler does have a sticker on the top. I cant read it though (atm) cus ive got it upside down, so that the fan cables aren't wrapped around the fan.

    Initially I did use a 'dot' method, but feel I used too much paste. The second time I used AS5, I used the 'line method' (it was recommended for the 2500k on AS's website, worth a shot). The temp with the second attempt of AS5 is however at 62degreeC, same as the coolest I have gotten it.

    Are you absolutely sure the cpu is at idle in the bios? I've come across quite a few occurences of people seeming to be in similar situation to myself and with my same processor, (many of these ppl have os installed), and they report higher temps in bios than in windows (by 20degreeC or so). Then they usually get a response that its because the bios isn't regulating or down clocking the cpu's output like what happens when logged into windows.

    One person gave a rationale for this reasoning: they said the high cpu temp was down to the new ASUS UEFI BIOS system, and they did expand on that but I can't remember what they said exactly. Obviously It would be foolish of me to just hope that this is true...but I'm very confused because it seems quite a few people are being given such an answer elsewhere.

    If it helps, my cpu voltage is around 1.224v, and I also have the EPU and TPU swiches set to enabled, since the manual seemed to say that was something I definately ought to do.
     
  10. win2kpro

    win2kpro

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    To be honest since I haven't built a machine with this processor my knowledge is not where it should be. See what your temps are when you reset the cooler. I don't put much faith in software programs to read temperatures or voltages since I have seen too many be way too far off from the actual temperature especially with later processors.

    I went to to Intel to try to locate the vCore voltage limits for that processor, however they do not have it listed. If your core voltage is 1.224v that would seem reasonable since I would guess that the max would be around 1.5v. I'll continue to look at Intel and see what I can find.

    Does you board BIOS have a sticker on it giving the BIOS revision?
     
  11. Yeoman1000

    Yeoman1000 Thread Starter

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    On the packaging there is a sticker saying the revision is 3.1, and on the box it advertises "B3 revision".
    Is that what you meant? or is there another sticker somewhere else I should be looking out for?

    This is an example of what I have seen cropping up at various places over the internet.

    I'm sure you can understand my situation: if I assume my temps aren't produced at idle; what if i try install the OS and it does overheat and shut down halfway through? Or alternatively, if I decide my temps are way high and displaying idle behaviour, and I keep trying to reapply paste and reseat the heatsink, and possibly do a bit of damage.

    I think what I'm going to next, is maybe reseat the heatsink/doublecheck the pins are in full (i might try putting it on its side and pushing down on the fan to see if it is contacting properly). I'll probably also inspect how the recent paste has spread (before, with the first manaul application, there was like a slightly thicker 'ring' of paste on the cpu heatspreader, from where it had spread out from underneath the copper pressure plate on the fansink). I figured that meant too much, but as i said temps are the same after second application.



    I really appreciate all the help by the way, this quite mindboggling.
     
  12. win2kpro

    win2kpro

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    When you pull the cooler do it very carefully remembering the two steps I mentioned in post #4. After the cooler is removed take a couple of CLEAR pictures of the bottom of the heatsink so we can have a look at how the thermal compound was distributed. Also, many times from the pics you may be able to see voids and other areas where "air gaps" are present.

    Also when you pull the cooler make sure the front of the load plate was fully under the shoulder screw at the front of the socket.

    If you access BIOS the BIOS revision should be displayed. Initially when the series 67 chipset was released there was a potential problem with the SATA portion of the chipset. Intel took proactive steps to make sure all the "old" series series chipsets didn't make it to the end user market. The B3 revision you are seeing simply means the potentially problematic chipset was replaced with the newer, modified chipset.

    List the cooling attributes of the chassis. I believe I noticed that the chassis had 4 fans, i..e an intake fan, a exhaust fan, a side fan and a top fan. List the sizes of all the chassis fans.
     
  13. Yeoman1000

    Yeoman1000 Thread Starter

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    Okay, the all the fans are 120mm, with room for 3 extra ones, and a i think a total of 4 of these can be 140mm(with some of the 120mm replaced ofc). Theres an intake at the front bottom, and outtake at the rear near the top, another outtake on the top, at the rear. The forth pre-installed fan is on the side at the 'bottom-left' and its another intake. Also, on the side there is a large portion of mesh, and the rear of the case has lots of meshed sections to allow air to escape. Also, my psu is installed with the fan facing downwards. According to the thermometer in the case, its at 21C (which i guess is meaningless since I don't know what temp my room is).

    Also, on the Mobo, and the Bios screen it does say Rev3.1

    Erm, I feel very foolish. I have'nt yet had a look at how the paste has spread. But before reseating/taking a picture. I did push really hard on all the pins to see if they could go in further, and two of them clicked. :eek: I'm not sure how I didn't find this earlier...i always push the pins in hard, with the same ammount of force, and all of them give an audible click(although sometimes it seems very quiet).


    Now my temps are down to 54C (which is still unacceptable if I assume my cpu is at near-zero load?) I'm reluctant to reseat the cooler, in case I never see such low temps again. What do you think my next move should be? Do you still wish to see photos of the paste? Also, my voltage on my cpu seems to have dropped slightly to 1.216(from 1.220-30)
     
  14. win2kpro

    win2kpro

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    I looked at the manual for your board and attached is a pic of where the BIOS Version is listed. In this menu it is the 2nd item from the top, i.e. 0236 x64
     

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  15. Yeoman1000

    Yeoman1000 Thread Starter

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    The bios version is 0105 x64
     
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