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New question. This time about OverClocking.

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by DrkSdBls, Sep 11, 2003.

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  1. DrkSdBls

    DrkSdBls Thread Starter

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    My Brother was trying to see if he could overclock my computer but he could not find any Diagram to see it's Settings for the Jumpers. If fact, he couldn't even locate any Jumpers that he could identify as the correct Jumpers. Most of the Jumper are not labelled.

    I'd like to know if it's possible that either I can not Overclock this Computer at all or that my brother simply overlooked something that has to do with it.
     
  2. active95

    active95

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    It really depends.... If you have a brand name computer ( i.e, Dell, IBM etc.. ) it's close to imposible to overclock it......
    But in your case ( since you didn't post any info about the mobo ) i assume that you have a "IBM clone "., "home build PC "..
    In that case all you need to do is to identify what mobo you have. There are couple of ways to do that.
    1. Get Belarc Advisor and find the name of the mobo.
    2. If Belarc is not able to help then look on the mobo for any id marking.. ( i.e ABIT BE6 , etc..etc.. ).
    3. If you don't see that, look on the mobo for a FCC number. Should be somewere in a corner.. Write it down and go to fcc.gov and use the search to find out the manufacturer of the board. Go thru products and match the mobo that you have
    4. If the computer starts and you see something like ( before you see windows logo screen ) AWARD ( AMI ) Version 4.5 on top and a long string of numbers and letters on the back , write down those number and letter , use google to find info about them . Which in the end should get you mobo model and a diagram.
    Be aware that this string of number will flash really quick so you need to press the PAUSE key on the kebyboard to stop it. Once you have them wrote down press any key to continue.
    In the end , without a diagram of the mobo is next to impossible to overclock ( since you don't know where the FSB or CPU multiplier are )
    HTH
     
  3. GwizJoe

    GwizJoe

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    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    active95...
    If you have a brand name computer ( i.e, Dell, IBM etc.. ) it's close to imposible to overclock it......
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Funny...,I have an IBM desktop unit sitting right here that has the dip-switch settings for the FSB and multipliers printed right inside the case shell.
    The only thing it doesn't say is "To OverClock your CPU set...."

    (ahem)

    Instead of sending you on a long drawn out search,let me first just ask you...
    1. Do you know what model MotherBoard you have?
    2. Do you know what type of CPU you have?
    3. Do you know what version BIOS are on your system?

    If you can provide us with this information,"we" can find out if it can be done.The more you can tell us,the faster "we" can find the answers.You might even find someone nice enough here to tell you exactly what to do.

    Now let me ask you one more question...
    Why do you want to over-clock your CPU?

    You do need to be aware that over-clocking is not a garranteed method of getting the best performance out of a CPU,but it is a good method for creating small fireworks in and around one.In many cases,it is much easier and cheaper to replace a weak CPU than deal with the results of an over-clocking excersise gone bad.
    Sorry,but I am not a big fan of the "Tim Allen's Guide to a More Powerful Computer".I'll tell you what to do,and I like fireworks as much as the next guy.But there is just something about having smoke come out of a computer case that seems wrong to me,very wrong...
    You never know...,in some cases it works just fine.
    But,that my friend...,is your decision.
     
  4. DrkSdBls

    DrkSdBls Thread Starter

    Joined:
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    "Tim Allen's Guide to a More Powerful Computer"
    That's Good. I'll have to remember that one!

    But Really, I don't have much of a reason to do it rather then just seeing how far I can push this thing. AIDA32 says that my Processor has a Max of 800 while it's only set at 633. Since I can't afford a new Processor, I'm just trying to see how to Optimize what I've got.

    Regardless, it's not necessary but it's just nice to know how to if I need to. This is my Motherboard Properties:

    Motherboard ID 04/25/2000-i810-6A69MM49C-00
    Motherboard Name MSI MS-6137/6178/6182/6183(E)/6188

    Front Side Bus Properties
    Bus Type Intel GTL+
    Bus Width 64-bit
    Real Clock 67 MHz
    Effective Clock 67 MHz
    Bandwidth 533 MB/s


    CPU Properties:
    CPU Type Intel Celeron II, 633 MHz (9.5 x 67)
    CPU Alias Celeron III, Coppermine Lite, Coppermine-128
    CPU Stepping cB0
    Original Clock 633 MHz
    L1 Code Cache 16 KB
    L1 Data Cache 16 KB
    L2 Cache 128 KB (On-Die, ATC, Full-Speed)

    CPU Physical Info
    Package Type 370 Pin FC-PGA
    Package Size 4.95 cm x 4.95 cm
    Transistors 28.1 million
    Process Technology 6M, 0.18 um, CMOS
    Die Size 104 mm2
    Core Voltage 1.5 - 1.7 V
    I/O Voltage 3.3 V
    Typical Power 9 - 22 W (depending on clock speed)
    Maximum Power 14.0 - 33.0 W (depending on clock speed)


    And I'm not certain of the Bios. I'm sure it's listed somewhere here but I can't find it.
     
  5. GwizJoe

    GwizJoe

    Joined:
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    Well...,with a few clicks I was able to easily locate a copy of the manual for your board.
    http://www.motherboards.org/manuals/p/MSI-MS-6137/2074.html
    It is a downloadable .ZIP file containing 5 .PDF files of the whole thing (MSI likes damn big fonts),including diagrams of the board and instructions for adjustments.I read thru it,and this is going to be easy.
    Are you in a big hurry? if not...,I'll make screen-shots of the jumper(s) to adjust and tell you what BIOS adjustments need to be done.

    If you just want to go it from here(it's actually pretty easy with the manual available),I see there is only one jumper that needs to be opened(Refer to page 2-2 of 6137-2.pdf),and then a simple BIOS change(Refer to page 3-29 of 6137-3.pdf).The ratio can be set for your CPU up to 8.0 at 100mhz FSB,instead of the current setting,9.5 at 66mhz (with the jumper on J2),but I wouldn't suggest that.I'd start with 7.0 and watch the temps.You "might" be able to get away with 7.5,but remember what I said about fireworks and smoke.And at 8.0,well...,I hope you have a fire extinguisher and another motherboard and CPU handy. LOL!!!

    *First and last word of warning: All items that utilize the FSB will be affected by any changes to it.You should have at least PC100 SDRAM DIMMS installed to proceed with this overclocking,PC66 will eventually overheat and fail.From reading over the specs,it looks as though PC100 would have been the "Builders Choice",but I can't say for sure...

    Are ya' ready???
    Let's hear that Big ol' Manly grunt..."MORE POWER!!!"
     
  6. compilerxp

    compilerxp

    Joined:
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    Most PC standard boards have BIOS controlled CPU speed rather than jumpers... as it says, MSI and GwizJoe told ya the page numbers.

    Realisticly, you may get another 20~50mhz out of the CPU... easiest thing is to up the FSB by 3~5mhz, with the CPU locked you are limited. My last main PC was a PIII-866 which I was able to OC'd to 900mhz. Going much faster than that created problems with my video card. As with older boards, the AGP & PCI are tied directly to the speed bus of the CPU.

    My current system, an AMD CPU that is NOT locked, I easily get an extra 200mhz out of it and only a gain of 2~3 degrees C.

    note the TEMP of your CPU (its reported in BIOS under HEALTH or something like that) before and after your OC...

    note: Your board should support up to a PIII-933Mhz CPU, maybe a 1000Mhz. You maybe able to find such a CPU for about $10 used + $10~15 for a cooling Heatsink for it. The PIII CPUs are quite a bit faster than the Celerons.


    Most likely,
     
  7. Triple6

    Triple6 Moderator

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    Rob
    I have to agree with CompilerXP on his last statement. While you can get some more speed out of it, it won't computer to a Pentium III CPU of equal or higher speed. You can pick up a faster Socket 370 CPU pretty cheap. However, you'll need to check your RAM or RAM settings in the BIOS. You'll need PC100 or PC133 RAM for use with a PIII CPU or be able to set the RAM to run slower then the FSB of the CPU. Since Aida listed several models of mobo, I couldn't find the correct manual for your mobo to list the max CPU. You may have to crack open the case to look for the model number on the mobo itself.

    Here's a link to MSI CPU Support: http://www.msi.com.tw/program/support/cpu_support/cpu/spt_cpu_list.php?kind=1&CHIP=Archives&ID=4
     
  8. GwizJoe

    GwizJoe

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    Well guys...,I tried to talk him out of doing this,but he is determined.He either doesn't have,or want to spend any $$$ on a new/used processor,and considering that...

    The MoBo is rated for either 66/100mhz FSB only.
    Jumper 'closed' = 66,'open' = 100
    The board also has an intigral 100mhz DIMM controller,so I assume that it was built using PC100.But I did warn him about that,too.

    If he takes the time to familiarize himself with the manual,he will see that the BIOS adjustments are pretty straightforward.This particular BIOS sets the CPU ratio multiplier instead of relying on hardwired jumpers.If it was left in 'Auto',it would detect the CPU and set it accordingly,at a 100mhz FSB it would literally under-clock it.

    I am glad that someone emphazied the Temperature thing.

    YES!!! Please do pay attention to the operating temperature of the CPU both before and after the over-clocking!!!
    In fact,before you decide to do that,check that temperature a couple times.First with it cold(shut down for an hour,or so) and then again with it hot(after running for an hour,or so).That way you will see what the "normal" range of the CPU is as it was originally configured.
    After you decide to try the over-clocking,check the temperature right away(basically cold).Let it sit in the BIOS for a moment or so to see it level off...,and be ready for a fast shut down.

    *!*!*!* This CPU can only sustain a MAXIMUM operating temperature of LESS than 82*C and remain stable. *!*!*!*
    After that...,like I said...,smoke...,fire...,tears,...new CPU,and probably new MoBo.Also know that this is an internal temperature rating,so the heatsink and fan would have little bearing on it.Ever touch a heatsink on a running computer that was cold?

    Like I said before,start with a lower ratio multiplier first.Even 6.5 at 100mhz is hotter than what you have been running,and about a 20-25mhz boost from what you had.If the temperature stays well down below 82*C...,you can try stepping it up again to 7.0,and so on and so on.And be smart,the hotter it runs,the shorter it lives. If it can remain stable at 7...,leave it alone and start saving your pennies for a new MoBo/CPU combo.
     
  9. DrkSdBls

    DrkSdBls Thread Starter

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    Ok. For all of your warnings, no one warned me this would happen!

    First off, The Specs you linked to weren't to my exact Mobo but I found the right ones, only that I found two identical ones (one with E in it's name) but I'm not sure exactly which is correct but it does matter since both say J2 is the right Jumper.

    Anyway, I tried to remove the J2 Jumper only to find it disabled my Monitor! When I replace it, my Monitor works fine again. Now I'm totally lost.

    Also, how exactly do you check the Temperature?


    On a side note. CompilerXP, you mentioned that one could find a CPU for $10. Where on earth? The cheapest one I've found was for $68 and that one is lower then my own.
     
  10. GwizJoe

    GwizJoe

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    hmmm....
    Me thinks you have not read the stuff on your BIOS adjustments...,all of them. That's ok...
    I also suspect you have never had a reason to do anything with them,and as such have never looked at them. That's ok,too...
    Each subsection of the BIOS deals with different aspects of how your system recognises what you want it to do,it's limitations,and also reports to you what it sees before it is a Windows/Linux/whatever-OS computer...

    Before you try to do anything as far as system enhancing,have a look at what it already knows to be it's "Self", it's autoBIOgraphy.

    Reboot the computer,and as it is getting ready to load Windows(the little black-screen test before it loads Windows),just sit and press the Delete key.Some systems are fickle and like to be stroked instead of just held (like so many other women I have known),in which case you should sit and tap on that key to get it to come (*grin*) up with the BIOS.
    Once you have coaxed it into opening the CMOS BIOS,you will see a nice little blue screen with a few choices of things to look at.
    You use the arrow keys to move the highlighted line up,down and over these items.'Enter' lets you into each subsection to view that areas information.'Esc' takes you back out to the main screen.
    Look at everything...
    If you like,it is often suggested that these settings be written down line by line on a notepad for further review and adjustment.When you make a change,mark the change on the notepad,so you can change it back to it's initial state if you need to.Some printed manuals even have sections to write these things down.
    I do suggest that you read over the section in the manual about BIOS adjustments(either one you found,they were all the same BIOS),to see what each section does,it's available settings,and what it will do.
    Yes...,there is a subsection that will tell you the CPU temperature while you are looking at it,it is called 'PC Health Status'.You'll see it on that nice blue screen of the BIOS.

    ***

    You say that removing the J2 "disabled" your monitor...,what exactly did it do? Did it just stay black,give you a pre-load test,or a "No Video Signal" message?
    I can believe that the BIOS was attempting to figure out what you wanted it to do,and that when you turned the power back on,it was waiting patiently for you to enter the BIOS for adjustment (the black screen test state before Windows loads),but not a video failure.
    I don't see how a FSB adjustment would disable the monitor. That..,I've not seen before.

    Patience...,you'll get there.

    ***
    Yes...,you can find cheap processors in many places.I shop ebay for most of mine.
    I bought a PII 550 w/heatsink and fan for $6.05 three days ago,shipping was $5.95,so call it $12.I don't really need this one,but I couldn't pass on it for that price.
    A couple weeks ago,I bought a PII 350 w/heatsink for $10,shipping was $5,so $15 total.It's in a system sitting right here over-clocked to 400,works perfectly...,but I may try that 550 in it.
    2 days ago,I bought a nice combo:pIII 866 w/h+f,mATX board,and 256 stick for $100,shipping was $10.All pulled from one working system that was upgraded.I talked to the guy,and he is sort of kicking himself,since his AMD upgrade is being really fussy.He said the setup I bought was rock solid from day one...

    Hell,I've got a Celeron 600 sitting on the shelf that someone just gave me.I tested it out and it worked fine.

    If you don't like auctions try: http://www.compgeeks.com
    They usually have a good selection of new and used parts at pretty good prices.I've bought nice NEW motherboards from them a couple times when I couldn't find what I needed anywhere else.

    L8R,
    Joe
     
  11. DrkSdBls

    DrkSdBls Thread Starter

    Joined:
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    Ok. What exactly happens is normally when I turn on my computer, it starts to whine (the good type of whining, when everything is running right) then a clicking or popping sound is made at which time the Monitor switches on and the start of the Bootup Cycle is displayed.

    Only, when I removed the J2 Jumper, that Click never happens and the Monitor stays black. The Monitor doesn't spring to life as it normally does but I can still hear the Computer Booting. It's as if the Monitor just isn't turned on even though I know that it is as I never turned it off and the Light's still on.


    Here's a question on CPU's. I have two other Processors (neither are as good as this onethough) but I would like to know what their exact Stats are. What is the best way to test them?
     
  12. GwizJoe

    GwizJoe

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    Like I said,I've not seen that happen before,but I will look around to see if anyone else knows about such a thing.
    In the mean time,hopefully someone else here has and has a suggestion.

    ***
    For testing CPUs I use my testing PC,it is set up as a very basic unit with a good set of BIOS.I try a few things that put it to the test; a few windows functions,a few graphics operations,maybe try a graphics intensive game.You can usually determine if a CPU is good after an hour or so on a machine.

    As for finding the Specs on a CPU,I generally will go right to the manufacturer and compare numbers there.
     
  13. DrkSdBls

    DrkSdBls Thread Starter

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    Oh well! I guess I'm just going to have to forget about it, For now at least. I don't want to risk playing around with any of the other jumpers trying to find out what's with this board.

    I'm not that sure of my SKills ...... or my luck.
     
  14. compilerxp

    compilerxp

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    if you Jumpered your Mobo to 100Mhz and your current memory doesn't support 100Mhz (PC-100), then that could prevent it from booting - as well a shaving a 66mhz BUS CPU!

    You can't simply change a jumper and go from 666Mhz (Intel told BIOS people to say "667"Mhz.. but its still 666) tp 950Mhz. if that was so, everyone would have done it.

    You change the JUMPER to 100Mhz when you have a chip that SUPPORTS it. You need to check your memory for PC100 (look at the labels, they usually say).

    Yes, PIII CPUs are worth about $10.... I have a 633Mhz CPU I'm willing to give to a friend for free when I see him (He has a PII-266 on a BX board that'll support it).

    Consider this: AMD XP2000 is $60 or the AMD 1700 is $46... considering that the Celeron 800 is about 1/4 the speed, you can see the low value of the older CPUs.

    Since your Mobo only supports 100Mhz, about the fastest you can go is the PIII-800Mhz, maybe the 850Mhz. If your Memory is PC66, then you'll need to replace that as well (again, these are very cheap - USED! I sold one stick to a client for $10 - 128mb)

    Getting an 800Mhz CPU working on your system may net you about a 15% increase.

    The cheapest and easiest Overclock... Locate the FSB option in your BIOS and you may crank up your BUS speed about 3~5Mhz above its 66mhz default. It may say "AUTO" in the BIOS...
     
  15. suesman

    suesman

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    Above & beyond what everyone has said? If you are not comfortable doing this, then by all means don't! The meager gains you will get are not worth the aggrevation that can insue. ;)

    You can actually pick mobo-cpu combos quite cheap right now. Sometimes with memory included. If you just really need a faster puter I would look into upgrading. I would rather save my money for an upgrade than to be without one altogether. :D JMO
     
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