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Norton Ghost 10 vs Norton Save and Restore

Discussion in 'All Other Software' started by scavynger, Mar 22, 2006.

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  1. scavynger

    scavynger Thread Starter

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  2. Noyb

    Noyb Trusted Advisor

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  3. Solei

    Solei

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    I prefer Acronis True Image. It's very clear and reliable software, due to intuitive windows wizard and prompts.
    It creates an image of your entire hard disk drive or separate partition, including the operating system, applications, user settings, and all data. You can use the image to restore your PC to a known working state without any reinstallation.
    Also it has new file-based backup option which enables you to backup and restore individual files and folders.
     
  4. scavynger

    scavynger Thread Starter

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    thanks for the info. I had never heard of True Image. I actually never heard of norton ghost until yesterday. A co-worker had his computer fail, and had to spend a lot of $$$ to get teh hard drive recovered.

    So, with this true image, if i were to do a sytem restore to bring my pc to the state it was in when i bought it, then restore from a true image restore point, it will put it EXACTLY how it was on that date of the true image restore? It will restore the same driver versions i may have specifically installed for various hardware components, restore all the software applications and registrations for them, all my links, all the temporary files and cookies on that date, everything in my recycle bin, etc etc? I coudl essentially wake up on monday, run true image to create a restore point, download a virus on tuesday, and then on wed restore from monday's true image and have the EXACT same workign state I had on tuesday before downloading the virus?

    I didn't think this was possible, this is something that shoudl come with pc's automatically! WOuld it also work if i take that restore image and put it on another computer to replicate my system there?

    Also, i read in a review that True Image does not save the backup to disc? If I do a system restore that reformats my computer, won't that overwrite the true image restore information? i read on their site that it saves this information in a "secret" spot, however, what if my pc fails completely, even that secret spot. Then how would the information get recovered?

    I might just not be udnerstanding the concept of how the restore stuff works.

    Thanks again!
     
  5. Noyb

    Noyb Trusted Advisor

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    Ouch... several questions.
    When you recover with Acronis ... your computer will be back to EXACTLY the way it was when you saved a recovery Image .... new HD or old HD.
    You won't be able to tell a difference.

    Recovery CDs are a problem... for several reasons ... one being possibly not enough space.
    You really need to get a USB External HD.
    I have several backup versions of 5 different computers ... in one external HD.

    Did I cover all the bases ??
     
  6. Noyb

    Noyb Trusted Advisor

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    whoops - missed one
    NO ... the OS is married to (or registered with) the computer hardware.
    Data ... YES

    May I ask ? .. Do you feel capable of changing HDs ??
    There's even more to the Acroins story if you are ... and plan on getting an External HD
     
  7. Solei

    Solei

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    Hi scavynger, I keep my backup files on a DVD, and in case of the virus' attack or other crash I can just restore the image. (y)
     
  8. scavynger

    scavynger Thread Starter

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    Thanks for the prompt replies and information!

    Noyb - Do I feel comfortable changing out hard drives? I sort of do, although by no means am I an expert at the kind of stuff. I have two laptops (IBM for work, and Dell for personal) and have once had to put my IBM hard drive into a new IBM laptop. It was pretty simple, but I don't know about the dell one. Not sure how advanced the extra story you referred to would be. I'm pretty capable of understandign these things, as long as there is documentation for it.

    I was actually considering buying an external hard drive to back up my files , but was planning on writing a little script that would copy all my files and directories that I want to back up every few days - which would limit me on restoring my installed applications and outlook rules and settings (this alone takes A TON of time to set up). Then when I found out abotu this backup type software, I figured this was a MUCH better route than what I was thinking originally.

    So with the external drive as you suggest, I assume that would simply mean having True Image write the restore to the external drive instead of the "secret" partition space? Then when windows is corrupt or whatever, run the restore from the external drive?

    If this is the case, then as Solei mentioned, I could just have it write that restore data to windows somewhere, and then burn a copy of that onto DVD (assuming it fits on a standard 4.7gb disc, and that True Image won't write directly to DVD). Then when the time comes for a restore, have True Image fetch the data from the DVD, or copy the DVD back onto windows and have it load it from there?

    Solei, Is that how you backup files to DVD? I have a basic dvd-writer and can only fit 4.7gb onto a dvd, don't have the dual layer burner. How big is a restore image for a machine with 60gb hard drive (with roughly 45gb being used)?

    I know i could just buy the $30 software (which soounds like a great price to me for what it's offering) and experiment with it, but just want to make sure I'm 100% sure on how I would use the software. I'm not opposed to buying an external hard drive, but if possible, I think I woudl rather go the route of putting each restore image to a seperate dvd, and having a dvd collection of weekly backups. I travel a lot for work, and it would be easier to keep the most recent DVD restore copy in my case as a backup.

    I've NEVER had a case where my laptop failed, but after seeing the trouble my co-worker recently went through, I definitely want to make sure I'm good to go in case it ever does happen!
     
  9. Noyb

    Noyb Trusted Advisor

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    The rest of the story is ... I suggest getting a USB external HD "enclosure"
    "enclosure" = Hard Drive NOT included ... some assembly required.
    Then shop for sales on a ATA internal HD... and install it.
    The reasons ...
    1: Usually more gig for the buck this way.
    2: You can use the XHD to possibly recover files from a BSOD HD
    3: Acroins can Clone to the USB XHD ... making an exact copy of your system HD, and partition it at the same time.

    The Enclosure now becomes a tool in addition to being a place to store stuff.
    Here's my favorite enclosures for a couple of reasons ...
    1: Easy install - just plug the HD in - no fooling w ribbon cables or tool needed.
    2: Front panel power switch ... Very rare and hard to find.

    Sanmax HD 339

    Sometimes - I can find good 160 gig HDs for $39
    last week I got a 250gig Seagate, 16mb cache, for $69 after playing the rebate game.

    $100 for a 250gig USB XHD isn't bad in my book ... and I can swap HDs and work on them externally.
    a $10 cable adapter ... and you can use it to run a laptop HD
     
  10. Noyb

    Noyb Trusted Advisor

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    Question ...
    As I understand ... Acronis can only write backups to a CD/DVD ... if it's pre-formatted in a UDF format.
    I don't have the software to do this UDF formatting ... and don't want to use R/Ws.
    Any other Suggestions, Procedures ??
     
  11. Solei

    Solei

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    Acronis True Image 9.0 is capable of writing to a DVD disc in Windows if UDF packet DVD-writing software is installed and the DVD disc is formatted. If a DVD disc is not formatted, Acronis True Image 9.0 Home will ask you to format it. It's easier than it seems to be. As for software to do this UDF formatting, I'm sure you have something like Nero or Roxio.
    Btw, you can use a DVD for simple storage.
     
  12. pjblevin

    pjblevin

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    I don't get all this Ghost and True Image stuff. Years ago, I bought "Ghost" from Symantec. Cost me $60. I never understood it, and threw it out. I would have been just as well off flushing the $60 down the toilet. I studied the problem. All I REALLY cared about was protecting my personal stuff......documents---pictures---music---video. I didn't care a damn about saving my "settings". What the hell good is that? So, after thinking about the whole idea of backup, I bought an NAS unit from 3com. That was years ago. I now have Linksys NAS. All my personal stuff is in 2 places: 1) on my main PC hard-drive 2) on the Linksys unit. All my stuff is accessible from all my PC's. My files are synchronized with "Beyond Compare" software (cost me $30, the best $30 I ever spent). Over the years, I've reinstalled windows on my 3 machines quite a few times in total. Whenever I do it, of course I have to reload my programs and tweak my settings. It's a bit of a pain, but it doesn't last long......and the results are a squeaky clean and predictable installation. Backing-up is the key.

    pjblevin
     
  13. Noyb

    Noyb Trusted Advisor

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    I think you miss the fact that they're not discussing Personal Data recovery here ??

    The last time I had to restored my laptop, I spent about 8 hours getting all the updates, rebooting over n over, setting windows the way I like it, removing all the OEM supplied marketing garbage, and installing my favorite programs.

    I can now do all this in about 8 minutes ... because I have an Acronis backup of my entire System.

    My personal stuff is stored somewhere safe , that's an easy recovery.
    What I care about is my C: system OS … and all the work that went into it.
    I really like to be able push a couple of buttons ... take a short break and have a freshly restored C: OS ... and the HD is re-partitioned the way I like it (if it’s a new HD) .. all at the same time.

    Backing up Data is the least of my worries.
    So far, I’ve had to recover my 1yr old desktop twice...Not because of a virus/worm or the HD failed …
    But because Mr. Gate’$ software got confused and had developed a quirk that I couldn’t figure out how to fix.

    Acronis also can recover Personal Data if it's burried in the C: OS ... but I don't do that.
    My squeaky clean OS system, largely updated, is only about 8 minutes away ... with my computer doing all the work.
    My Data is another partition and in an external HD ... I don't even have to mess with it.
     
  14. pjblevin

    pjblevin

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    Noyb: Fascinating subject! Here's my question.....but first, I'd like to have the situation cleared up. Let's say that you've done a clean installation of Windows, tweaked the settings, done the updates, loaded all the 3rd party programs, etc. (but your personal files are in another location). Now, the instant that you start using the PC, it's never gonna be the same as it was when the installation was finished. Programs are added or removed, updates done, barnacles have begun to form on the OS, etc. At what point is this "image" of the whole system captured for recovery? Is it at the point where the OS was first installed? Or is it later, after glitches have begun to appear? (In the case of MS "system restore", it never worked for me. So I shut it off on all my PC's long ago.) Does Acronis work on a different principle? Is it able to capture everything, but filter out all the undesirable stuff?

    pjblevin
     
  15. Noyb

    Noyb Trusted Advisor

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    NO - Acronis cannot remove, or Ignore, the normal Trash build up .. and it does not clean Barnacles.

    Since Scavynger seems to be off and running now, and you see the Barnacle problem … I’m going to Babble a bit.

    To capture or keep a fresh, recently updated, but largely updated OS is a problem.
    Acronis can restore your system back to Exactly the way it was .. when you made a recovery Image of the Partition(s) … Barnacles and all.
    I usually keep the last three recovery versions ... But I have plenty of space.

    You could use a second (spare small) HD, and restore it.
    Then occasionally install this HD and update it ... make an Acronis copy, then put it back in storage.
    Then you can use this HD ... or an Acronis recovery image of it .. to recover your system or make a Partitioned HD for your main HD.
    You'll have to physically "Toggle" the HDs to keep this spare HD updated.

    Or …you can Toggle the OS using Acronis as Scavynger is doing.
    But, this is a bit risky and since HDs are cheap nowadays, and I can stand on my head .. I avoid doing this when ever possible.

    Or … You can install a second, dual bootable HD … and use it to keep a fresh OS install, and keep it updated.
    This is basically what I do.

    My new Puter is a SATA system where I can install a dual bootable HD.
    So I have a second bootable partition (a fresh install) that I can occasionally boot to - update it – make an Acronis copy (backup) and get out.

    Now - when needed to fix something ... I tell Acronis to Clone the fresh, updated and largely unused OS to my main C: drive.
    Then the problem is fixed ... with a fresh, un-barnacled, OS with maybe a couple of new updates still needed.
    Takes about 5 minutes to do this.
    My Data is in another partition, and backed up differently .. so it’s not involved.

    The Key here is to NOT store any data in your system Partition.
    IMO .. backing up the System and Data is two different procedures and objectives.
    When I acquire or create Data that I don’t want to loose … I just copy it somewhere safe.

    This is a bit overkill … but attached is my system that I’m playing with.
    D: is a fresh install, largely updated and basically unused, un-barnacled OS.
    C: is my main OS.
    X: and Z: are my data storage partitions … basically, twins of each other.
    Z: is used for temporary working space for the C: OS operations.
    When working with data … I use Z: so that my drives are working in Parallel, which is faster.

    Z: contains a couple of Acronis recovery images for the C: partition.
    X: contains a couple of Acronis recovery images for the D: partition.
    The cross coupling reason … If either HD burns up … I can rebuild a new one from the remaining good HD…
    internally, at a much higher speed.

    Being Paranoid … All my common data and the Acronis recovery images are also stored in a couple of external HDs ...
    which also contains Acronis recovery images for 6 other computers .... My son’s wife is his worst virus.
    Hope this helps ??
     

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