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Old IDE HD -- Works in Linux, not in Win98

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by 4of11, Nov 24, 2005.

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  1. 4of11

    4of11 Thread Starter

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    I'm working on installing an old IDE hard drive. I set it as primary slave, sharing the IDE ribbon with the primary hard drive (set to master). Windows 98 does not see it, nor does the BIOS list it at boot. However, when I boot off a Linux Live-CD (the latest Puppy Linux, kernel 2.4.29), it sees it as /dev/hdb just fine, and is able to access it without error. I tried using the add hardware wizard, but it didn't see anything. I checked the motherboard manual, and I don't see any mention of any IDE related jumpers, and I don't see anything applicable in the BIOS settings. Is there any reason why a hard drive would be usable in Linux, and not in Win98?
     
  2. PC TECH250

    PC TECH250 Banned

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    98 will not see a drive other than one with MS Dos parttioning and format on it as a
    rule. In addition to that, 98 won't see XP on a NTFS partition either. Yet, fdisk knows
    that there was an NTFS on the drive detected. If you have an XP cd, try booting with
    it to gain access to the "display partiton info" option in the create new section. XP is
    able to tell what type of partitiion(s) are on the drive. LInux needs any os to install.

    In setting up the two drives, try setting both on cable select to see if thsi corrects
    the failure to detect there. Sometimes after an update of the bios the change is not
    recognised in the master/slave configuration. Partition and format the old drive alone
    before determining what settings works on both drives together. Try with CS first.
     
  3. qldit

    qldit

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    Good Evening, As you have discovered Puppy is quite incredible with it's ability, (I imagine you are using 1.0.6) I think you may need to place your efforts to troubleshooting why the BIOS can't see it.
    To do this you may need to disconnect the other drive from that IDE and try setting the problem drive as Master and placing it on the end of the IDE with no other items. Entering the BIOS and doing an "auto detect" then maybe entering the figures as "User" manually if neccessary in the first BIOS page.
    If the drive can be seen by Puppy it must surely be being detected even if it is arranged as hidden.
    Don't take too much notice of W-98 not seeing it.
    There is a "Madboot" floppy disk image downloadable off the net that you can use to make a bootable floppy, if you run this with the problem drive positioned as master, the madboot program will present a gui type screen that has a utility for writing zeroes to the hard drive which should allow you to then Fdisk and format it normally.
    It is possible that some program has written information to that drive that has affected it. In some cases the normal MS fdisk program will not work, that is why I am suggesting the drive zeroing.
    What was on the problem drive and what file system was it formatted in?
    (sounds like it might have been a Linux system)
    Cheers, qldit.
     
  4. crjdriver

    crjdriver Moderator

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    What type of drives do you have? Some brands [WD] use different jumper settings depending on if the drive is the master, slave or master with multiple drives.

    Have you checked the bios to see if each ide channel is enabled and set to auto?
     
  5. saikee

    saikee

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    This is a classic case of the difficiency of M$ in recognising a hard drive. For Win9x it will not see any partition if it isn't a FAT12, FAT16 or FAT32.

    Linux on the other hand sees every partition including the hidden M$ partitions because they have only the ID number added with a "1" in front. i.e. a NTFS partition is type 7 but change it to 17 makes it hidden to Win2k and XP.

    I agree that there is nothing to worry that the disk is not seen by Win9x because Linux can partition a FAT16 larger than 2Gb which Win9x and DOS will not touch.

    If the disk is picked up and readable by a Linux then it is connected perfectly hardware wise.
     
  6. pseye

    pseye Banned

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    there is a way to make 98 read ntfs according web site article here.
    http://www.sysinternals.com/Utilities/NtfsDos.html
    http://www.sysinternals.com/Utilities/NtfsWindows98.html
     
  7. qldit

    qldit

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    Good Morning Gentlemen, that is most interesting pseye, I downloaded those dos programs and will have to have a play with them when time is available. That capability could well be very useful, but I usually use Linux, it can see virtually anything these days and also lift or copy files. After using Linux for a while you don't want to go back to odd crashes and virusses etc.
    Sammyosa made a post but it seems to have disappeared. He is thinking similar to me as to how to address this problem.
    I have a sneaking feeling that the drive is formatted in some odd type, possibly one of the Linux series, which in some cases cannot be Fdisked by the MS Fdisk.
    That was the reasoning for suggesting the zeroing of the drive, and setting it prominently to access, hopefully the MBR will also be zeroed which allows normal fdisking and then normal formatting. A zeroing program is included in the madboot disk, it certainly is a gem of a collection of utilities. Of course anything presently on that drive would be lost.
    Temp here is currently 30degsC at 1130hrs. To humid to do anything much but play!
    Cheers, qldit.
     
  8. pseye

    pseye Banned

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    knoppix linux live cd can tell what is on drive. zero fill takes long time to erase drive.
    http://www.knoppix.net/ boot from knoppix cd can also copy or write to disk files on
    40gb drive. 98 can not read linux or ntfs by itself. hope download works.
     
  9. qldit

    qldit

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    Yes 4of11 already obviously has Puppy Linux, it is similar to Knoppix except that everything runs as ramdrive so you can remove the CD completely and operate the computer similar as if it were a normal operating system with a normal hard drive.
    He possibly has not mastered the directory and naming structure to navigate to different areas on the drives to inspect them.
    Puppy has a drive mounting program that he possibly is using which presents the drives as requested, but they need to be unmounted as you finish with them. This mount program is located in the Start > Utilities area at the top of the list. Named Mount/unmount drives or Puppy drivemounter.
    Zero filling a drive can be advantageous with locked MBR's if you don't have a special Fdisk utility, it also allows magnetic cycling of the drive surface and makes it more difficult to lift any previous info that may be a security problem. It is also helpful with an infected drive to allow confidence, but as you mention it takes a while to run. I have often used it for problem drives, just leaving it run overnight. I found the beauty of it was that it ensures you get the full drive back.
    Interesting stuff.
    qldit.
     
  10. pseye

    pseye Banned

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    you'll get your full drive back alright. use the puppy to save what you want first.
     
  11. sammysosa

    sammysosa

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    Hi, qldit,

    Funny you should mention that; as it turns out, I got pranked by a nephew who had stopped by. Right after I posted a reply to this thread, I walked away from the keyboard to take a phone call, and he immediately deleted my post!

    The thing is, I didn't even know about it until I read this thread a few minutes ago; he's getting even because someone took the wheels off his Mustang, then left it sitting on cinder blocks back in September. He thinks I was responsible just because he found the wheels in my garage, but I told him that I suspected the UPS girl; he disagreed, but only because it happened on a Sunday, which is a technicality at best. Thankfully, he can't prove a damn thing, though I assure you that this isn't over...

    This is what I originally posted (he saved the text to a .TXT file on my Desktop, which I noticed when I booted up):

    I agree with qldit that your problem is most likely related to your CMOS / BIOS settings. Regardless of what OS is or isn't installed on your old IDE harddrive, you have to find the setting in the CMOS Setup program that forces the CMOS to poll each IDE device, and use it to correct this problem.

    It is sometimes listed as an "Auto-Detect IDE Drives" feature, or something similar, but the point is, it scans the IDE cables to locate whatever IDE interface devices might be attached.

    qldit suggested that you set the old drive as the Single / Master drive on the Primary IDE channel at the END of the IDE ribbon cable, with nothing else attached, in order to simplify the troubleshooting process. Once your CMOS lists the drive as the Primary Master, it will be easy enough for you to change the jumper to the proper Slave setting, and move the drive to the MIDDLE connector on the IDE cable, with the Master drive attached to the end of it.

    He specifically mentioned this:

    "... disconnect the other drive from that IDE [ribbon cable] and try setting the problem drive as Master and placing it on the end of the IDE [cable] with no other items [attached]. Entering the BIOS and doing an "auto detect" then maybe entering the figures [the harddrive parameters for Cylinders, Heads, and Sectors, which can often be found on the label on top of the drive] as "User" manually if necessary in the first BIOS page" [qldit - forgive the editing to include details - old habits die hard ///Sam]

    Once you have the drive properly detected in the CMOS as the Primary Master, reset the jumpers, move it to the middle of the IDE cable, attach the other drive as Master. Check the jumper settings on the original drive as well; there can be a difference between using a drive as a single or solo drive, and using it as a Master with a Slave on the same IDE channel.

    Do NOT use the Cable Select jumper setting for either drive; it doesn't work well, and it has gone the way of the LS-120 drive.

    Good luck; keep us posted on your progress.
     
  12. qldit

    qldit

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    Good Morning Everyone, wow Sammy, you are in a bind there!
    It is the time of year when the Christmas elves play pranks with mischeivous intent.
    It may be worth watching your back!
    It was kind of odd that your post had disappeared completely.
    Cheers, qldit.
     
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