Parental Guidance suggested...

vealj

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Jan 2, 2005
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170
I thought it would be nice to have some intelligent discussion (maybe a little CivDeb.) on some of the ways we treat, love and yes discipline our children. If it gets too hairy in here I'll request for the thread to be moved to CivDeb. But for now I'd just like to here some alternate points of view.

As for me...
I come from a "broken" home, if you will, and it's a pure wonder that I didn't turn out to be a real crappy parent. But somehow, someway I was blessed with just enough rational thought to crawl out of my hole and get a life.

My kids are what brings me the most joy in my life and if I would have known they were this much fun I would haved tried to have them sooner. It's because of this I spend so much time and effort trying to be a positive influence to them.['nuff 'bout me] :eek:

Here's one to ponder... My 11mo. old(Riley) is starting to test me{who am I kidding, he's been testing me for three months} and now I see fit to share a little corporal punishment with him from time to time. The question is ...How young is too young? Now don't call family & children services just yet. Let me explain.
My stereo is a such a level at which if Riley desires he can push buttons all day long on it. Now the majority of the parents that I know spend all of there time going around moving everything around to keep the kids out of it. NOT ME. I tell my son "NO, NO". I repeat myself two and perhaps three times but only because he doesn't fully grasp "No, No" yet. After that, if he hasn't relented I will take his hand and administer a slight pop on it just enough to get his attention. If that doesn't work I will usually repeat the process until the desired effect has been realized. I would never intentionally cause my children harm unless it were to prevent them from further harm or worse. Now I've been by others that this is not appropriate for a child of that age. What do you think?
I'd love to hear others opinions on this scenario. But I would also like to see other examples written to be commented on.
 
Joined
Oct 9, 2003
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252
Well, I don't have kids per se, but my girlfriend has a 13 month-old that I am pretty much "daddy" to.

She has known that "no" is bad for a few months now, but she is just now starting to put the word and consequence together. When she was 9-10 months old, she would hear "no" and keep doing it with a smile because the consequence of smacking her butt or yelling "no" doesn't really phase her.

Now that things are taken away and she is told "no," she throws a fit because she realizes the consequence. She doesn't get to play with it. Babies fall and smack their heads so much that I don't think corpral punishment really works until they can understand whats going on. I think they have a sense for right and wrong, but they don't have the capacity to know which is proper.
 
Joined
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At that age, No No, won't likely be enough. And you'll just end up frustrated and at some point (maybe) losing your temper and shouting. You will need to replace his behavior, by getting him involved in doing something else. When he starts to go to the buttons, show him something that he CAN do and praise him and hi-five him for that. Eventually, he'll learn that good praise and hugs from you are better than "no no" and mad parent. It takes forever (it seems to) but he'll get it if you are consistant ALL the time.
I hit my kid one time. A slap on the butt for being bad and then one day I got mad again and raised my hand. The lad cringed and looked at me with fear in his eyes, and that was it. No more hitting. Geeze I can still see the look on his face now, as I type this. Rats. :(
I think you have to determine yourself what works for you. Others will say a small smack is OK ...some will say no never hit. Whatever. It's you you have to live with, and your kids, so do what's right for you and them and just listen to everyone's opinions.
Good luck to you. Parenting is a ball for the most part, just getting over the hurdles here and there are the challenge. (y)

Carolyn :)
 
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Feb 19, 2003
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8,812
Lock the kid in the closet for an hour or two. If that doesn't work, then bury him up to his neck and pour honey on him..

(kidding) :)
 
Joined
Jan 5, 2005
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66
i'm not a parent yet; i'm only eighteen. but i've been parented, and by parents who liberally believe in corporal punishment.

from what i see, if you start there, it gets worse and worse as you and and your children grow older. my parents were taught by their own parents using spankings, and not just little taps on the hand or bottom. my parents lessened it some, but when you spank kids till they really cry like they did us... it just instills fear and forboding in the kids. they'll want to avoid you, and it carries on until through and past their teenage years, when they're more likely to do something that could really negatively influence them. it ends up turning out terribly.

now i know your kid(s) won't want things taken away, but they'll just get mad. that's it. (as long as you do make their punishment fit what they did wrong. be as careful as possible about that, and if they disagree, explain it to them.) they won't become so rebellious, they won't refuse to talk to you about things, and they're far less likely to do something like move out early-early or something.

also, if you use that kind of teaching method with your children, it just passes down the kind of bad behavior that you don't want transferred. they'll believe it's okay, they'll do it to their kids when they get older, and animosity grows. but maybe i'm making too big a deal out of this. i'd stray as far from any physical punishment as possible. then again, i'm not a parent, so take my comments in stride. ^^;
 

guitarman1

Banned
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Nov 27, 2004
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717
Hi VealJ, I have 5 children I suppose that I have a tiny bit of insight on this subject. I myself have very few bad memories of childhood that are negative , and I certainly got a few smacks in my time, but there not strong memories.I'm sorry to disagree with some of these lovely kind hearted ladies :) however I put it to you this way, for certain deadly behaviours eg. chewing on electrical power cords=Death,sticking objects in power sockets=Death,playing with scissors(eg.)which were already a no-no while dangling over the top of new baby =death for new baby! Do you get what I'm driving at , and I'm only talking about VERY restrained minimal smacking (never ever punish a child when you are REALLY angry! bad idea). Truly in the end ,it would be better under certain circumstances for a child to hate you as an adult, than a dead baby! Your little one is at the very age my comments ARE relevent, when a child LEARNS to have some reasoning ability , the other forms of punishment that the Gals ;) suggested are a good course of action.
Minue.kitty, I'm really sorry to here that your parents were excessive or worse still abusive physically . Not all punishment that is physical by the vast majority of parents is abuse. However I'm sorry to hear this if you were :(
 
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Jul 7, 2004
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I was raised by parents who would knock my sister and my heads together HARD, for bickering with eachother. They decided from the get-go that children should be seen (as long as they were clean and polite at all times) and heard only when they were spoken to 1st. Yes, it was annoying to them, but as sisters, we enjoyed the hassling of each other (ask any sibling ;) ). Knocking our heads together didn't teach us much else other than *bicker quietly so as to not annoy Mum and Dad*. To me this punishment did not fit the crime. Their TV program was more important than teaching my sis and I to communicate more effectively? *Clunk cluck* Quick and easy, then...back to the TV. My 3 lads bicker (often) and if it gets too loud for ME, I simply seperate them after trying to find out what their "issues" are and help them sort it (they hate being seperated ;) ). Sis and I had more severe smacking and hitting and verbal punishments, but they were handed out in their frustration and anger, me thinks, not so much to teach us to get along or be good citizens or be safe. They also, I believe, caused a un-trust between us (sis and I) and them (Mum and Dad) and there came a time, when we lost some respect for them and did not share serious problems we were having or troubles we needed their adult help with. Kinda sad.
When it comes to very young children doing DANGEROUS TO LIFE things: Yell or a smack or do "whatever" to prevent serious injury or death! My 1st post was relating to a pushing buttons on a stereo....possibly at some point, touching a wrong button, but I did not take into consideration the DEATH factor.

Carolyn < "lovely and kindhearted"...to a point then LOOKOUT! ;) :D
 

guitarman1

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Nov 27, 2004
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717
(quote=vealj) My 11mo. old(Riley).
Point taken, in regards to stereo buttons MightyQueenC, they will change their tune about modifying their house ,furniture and life style soon enough, its easier than fighting ,argueing etc ;) I thought the same way many, many moons ago "I wont change my life for them, they will change to fit in with me" sure :D
 
Joined
Jul 28, 2004
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Hi vealj,
Ah yes, the issues we parents have pondered over for centuries. I admire you for putting such thought and love into doing what will work best to teach your little one right from wrong. You just have to find your own way. The one thing that really teaches something is a no-no is firm no-nonsense talk to the child and a consequence, however short. When my daughter was 9, she would try a cuss word occasionally at home and she would have to go to her room for 15 or 20 minutes. Just getting removed from the area had an impact. The small consequences have much more of an impact on them than big dramatic punishments. Your kids are so lucky to have such a thoughtful caring parent who so wants to do the right thing.
 

vealj

Thread Starter
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Messages
170
Sorry I abandonned my thread (away from home)
kenneth2k1 said:
Now that things are taken away and she is told "no," she throws a fit :confused: because she realizes the consequence. She doesn't get to play with it. Babies fall and smack their heads so much that I don't think corpral punishment really works until they can understand whats going on. I think they have a sense for right and wrong, but they don't have the capacity to know which is proper.
I've gotta disagree with you on this one k2k1. You'll never convince me that her throwing a fit helps her in any way to determine the difference between right & wrong.
I believe that this kind of interaction(corpral punishment) with kids is the foundation for them to be able to determine, for themselves, the difference between right & wrong.The thing is I see a positive results from this type of punishment. Now I make exception for the fact that children develop at diferent rates compared to their growth(I don't think my 3yr. old will ever learn to put a pair of under-pants the right way). But, if you don't show them the error of their ways in a language they CAN understand (physical stimulation) all you will get is an ill mannered youngin'.
minue.kitty said:
... but when you spank kids till they really cry like they did us... it just instills fear and forboding in the kids. they'll want to avoid you, and it carries on until through and past their teenage years, when they're more likely to do something that could really negatively influence them. it ends up turning out terribly.

now i know your kid(s) won't want things taken away, but they'll just get mad. that's it. (as long as you do make their punishment fit what they did wrong. be as careful as possible about that, and if they disagree, explain it to them.) they won't become so rebellious, they won't refuse to talk to you about things, and they're far less likely to do something like move out early-early or something.
minue.kitty, (y)
you seem to be wise beyond your years. And you've touched on the one thing I fear most in disciplining my kids. I do NOT want may kids to fear me! :( It would absolutley break my heart if one of my children got themselves into a tough spot and were to afraid to call me for help for fear of the consequenses.
Now with my other two, who are more literate (3yrs. & almost 8) I take extensive measures to make time to explain the situation if it has resulted in a spanking. That's were I think most parents who spank go wrong!
guitarman1 said:
Point taken, in regards to stereo buttons MightyQueenC, they will change their tune about modifying their house ,furniture and life style soon enough, its easier than fighting ,argueing etc ;) I thought the same way many, many moons ago "I wont change my life for them, they will change to fit in with me" sure :D
I've been at it for 'bout 8 years so far and the only things I have moved are the ones that can rbreak instantly (glass, ceramics...). Course leaving those things lying around would just be asking for trouble.
BTW... Thnx for the earlier post I get it. :)
 
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Jan 5, 2005
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guitarman, i do see your point. i was also taking the example of the stereo into consideration when originally replying; if it's a life-and-death behavior such as that ( or something i used to do, try and stick my fat little fingers in sockets. >_< how'd i live past three?! ) then i can see where it would be alright for a soft tap on the hands to startle the child from what they're doing and get them to change their activity. *nod.*

^^# thanks, vealj. eh, my family just went through that; i "suddenly" moved out on my parents after a fight, so i know how that goes. (i'm back, though! we're even going through counseling and everything. ^_^! ) *pats.*

you're doing a really good thing for your kids by gathering others' opinions and trying to find good alternatives or suggestions. i'm certain your children will gain from it and your relationship with them will be better off in the long run. ^^
 
Joined
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my two cents.

I firmly believe in spanking. I believe it is to be done to teach a child, NOT to punish them or get revenge because you are mad!

The way we do it here is to give rules and discuss ahead of time the consequences if the rules are broken. Stuff like not cleaning your room when you're told to and small stuff...does not gain a spanking. The only times spankings are given are when they are deliberately endangering themselves or someone else, after you've already warned them not to do it. Or when they are in direct defiance.

I have always taken my children to the bathroom to spank them, because doing it in front of anyone else is embarrassing for them. I'm not out to humiliate them but to teach them something. I always tell them why they are being spanked and then afterwards, give them lots of hugs and we talk about what they might have done differently. My kids do not fear me. At ages 9 and 10, they are pretty much beyond the spanking stage. They know what is allowed and what isnt and they are pretty good about refraining from the really bad stuff.

Example: When Emily was very young, she kept asking for some chocolate. I told her no. She took it behind my back anyways and ate it. Her face was covered with chocolate. When I saw her, I asked her if she ate the candy. She dropped her head and said "yes mommy". I did not spank her for defying me because she was honest about it. We all give into tempation sometimes and do thinks we know are wrong. I felt her honesty was more important to cultivate and "praise up" than disciplining her for stealing. She knew it was wrong and probably expected to be spanked but it turned out to be a perfect time to teach her that honesty is the best policy. Now...if she had stuck her little chin up in defiance and smiled and said "yes, I took the candy" showing pride in what she had done, she would have been spanked! She also would have if she had lied. Stealing, lying and disobeying your parents is not funny or cute. We would do well not to teach our kids that it is!

On the other hand, I have spanked my kids in anger before...and like carolyn said...they looked at me like I betrayed them. My face was probably upsetting because it was an angry face and scared them. The thing is...they might have needed a spanking but they did not need one in that way. I ended up asking for their forgiveness because I have broken the trust by losing my cool. They count on me to be stable and level headed, even when I am upset. And I've tried very hard to show them that its totally possible. Believe it or not, my kids dont fear me...they fear a spanking because they know it hurts but they always turn around and reach up to me for comfort as soon as they are spanked.

I believe that if you cannot control your anger then you should NOT spank your kids. I'd rather see them behave like wild animals than have them messed up emotional from a parent that spanked them in anger.

Also, I believe parents are the only ones who should spank their own kids. Anyone else touched my kid and I'll rip their head off. I dont trust other people to love my kids enough or to have their best interests in mind when they spank. For all I know, they just got into an argument with someone and are taking it out on my child. If my child does something really bad then tell me and I will decide if a spanking is warranted!
 
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valley said:
my two cents.

I firmly believe in spanking. I believe it is to be done to teach a child, NOT to punish them or get revenge because you are mad!

The way we do it here is to give rules and discuss ahead of time the consequences if the rules are broken. Stuff like not cleaning your room when you're told to and small stuff...does not gain a spanking. The only times spankings are given are when they are deliberately endangering themselves or someone else, after you've already warned them not to do it. Or when they are in direct defiance.

I have always taken my children to the bathroom to spank them, because doing it in front of anyone else is embarrassing for them. I'm not out to humiliate them but to teach them something. I always tell them why they are being spanked and then afterwards, give them lots of hugs and we talk about what they might have done differently. My kids do not fear me. At ages 9 and 10, they are pretty much beyond the spanking stage. They know what is allowed and what isnt and they are pretty good about refraining from the really bad stuff.

Example: When Emily was very young, she kept asking for some chocolate. I told her no. She took it behind my back anyways and ate it. Her face was covered with chocolate. When I saw her, I asked her if she ate the candy. She dropped her head and said "yes mommy". I did not spank her for defying me because she was honest about it. We all give into tempation sometimes and do thinks we know are wrong. I felt her honesty was more important to cultivate and "praise up" than disciplining her for stealing. She knew it was wrong and probably expected to be spanked but it turned out to be a perfect time to teach her that honesty is the best policy. Now...if she had stuck her little chin up in defiance and smiled and said "yes, I took the candy" showing pride in what she had done, she would have been spanked! She also would have if she had lied. Stealing, lying and disobeying your parents is not funny or cute. We would do well not to teach our kids that it is!

On the other hand, I have spanked my kids in anger before...and like carolyn said...they looked at me like I betrayed them. My face was probably upsetting because it was an angry face and scared them. The thing is...they might have needed a spanking but they did not need one in that way. I ended up asking for their forgiveness because I have broken the trust by losing my cool. They count on me to be stable and level headed, even when I am upset. And I've tried very hard to show them that its totally possible. Believe it or not, my kids dont fear me...they fear a spanking because they know it hurts but they always turn around and reach up to me for comfort as soon as they are spanked.

I believe that if you cannot control your anger then you should NOT spank your kids. I'd rather see them behave like wild animals than have them messed up emotional from a parent that spanked them in anger.

Also, I believe parents are the only ones who should spank their own kids. Anyone else touched my kid and I'll rip their head off. I dont trust other people to love my kids enough or to have their best interests in mind when they spank. For all I know, they just got into an argument with someone and are taking it out on my child. If my child does something really bad then tell me and I will decide if a spanking is warranted!
Very nicely said Valley. Kinda sums up the way I feel...
 

eggplant43

A True Heart and Soul - Gone But Never Forgotten
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Mar 10, 2001
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17,198
I'm not a parent. However, at 61 I do have experience. Thirty years ago I was the director of a therapeutic community for schizophrenics. A 24/7 live in situation, and had lot's of "situations" to deal with. I was also the owner of a small business that employed anywhere from 5 to 9 employees at any given time. I got to see the results of both neglect, and poor parenting. So that is the basis for my comments.

Some things I believe: Children need honesty, children need consistency, children need boundaries, it is not so important how you handle it as it is to honor the above needs. Said another way, each of us has a different way of arriving at the same point.

First, you must get their attention. Now that will be different for each of us, and different for each child. Some children only require a look, some require that you get their attention first.

Children have "love" radar; they know if you care, they know how much you care, and they know if you mean them harm, and are a "harbor". If you don't believe this, watch them in action, they will avoid some adults, may even cry, be neutral about others, and be drawn to others. I'm sure we've all seen this.

So do I believe in corporal punishment? Yes. But only if I feel nothing else is going to work. I'm a big, loud guy, very loving and positive. When I am not happy, it is known, and usually responded to, so I don't have to resort to spanking, but I would if called for, and I'd support others in it's use.

I became accustomed over the years for ex-employees (whom I'd "raised") to return and look me up. The usual comment was something like "you were the most demanding person I've ever worked for, and the fairest, thank you. That was a real reward to me, as it told me that they understood that I cared enough for them to expect them to be decent human beings, that I was willing to pay the price of my discomfort in order to support their basic goodness, and ultimately, isn't that what parenting is all about?

Nice thread :)
 
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eggplant43 said:
The usual comment was something like "you were the most demanding person I've ever worked for, and the fairest, thank you.
I think you hit the nail on the head there, Bruce. (y) (and well done, by the way :))

All too often, i've seen parent who only spank for selfish reasons...its never really about the child at all, its just a way for the parent to vent their anger or frustrations. The child is just an excuse. I always feel so awful for these kids. They turn into angry and bitter young people. I have 2 members of my extended family who are growing up this very same way. We've all tried to speak to the mom about how she treats her kids but she is in total denial. She is not abusive enough to legally have her kids taken away...but its just enough to see that she has broken their spirits. :( :(

On the other hand, being too permissive can be just as damaging, imo.
 

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