Pentium II 400 or Celeron 500?

Status
This thread has been Locked and is not open to further replies. Please start a New Thread if you're having a similar issue. View our Welcome Guide to learn how to use this site.

jklein

Thread Starter
Joined
Apr 18, 2003
Messages
27
Hi all,
Been a while since posting, got an upgrade question.
A friend gave me an old Pentium II computer, no brand markings, but it has an ATA-V931-CX0 Atrend motherboard with the VIA VT82C693A chipset and has both Slot 1 and Socket 370. It had a Slot 1 Pentium II 400MHz in it, but I have a spare Celeron 500MHz I pulled out of a Gateway Essential 500C (and replaced with a PIII 800). I already tried the Celeron on the Atrend's Socket 370 and it works, but seems a little slower than the PII, which kinda surprised me.

Should I be seeing faster response with a PIII equivalent Celeron 500 than with the PII 400? Are there any settings I should be changing (physically or in BIOS) for switching from the PII in the Slot 1 to the Celeron in the Socket 370? Usage of the machine will be limited to my teenage son geeking around on the internet, no gaming or high end stuff like that. For comparison, he currently has an AMD-K6 400 that's kinda going kaput.

Thanks for any suggestions,
Jeff K.
 
Joined
Mar 18, 2005
Messages
3,390
Good Evening jklein, google Belarc, this is an info program you can load.
It gives a page of information of what is in your machine.
Try comparing the two different pages and see what you can discern.
I suspect the P2 processor would be the better of the two.
Board architecture can also have a bearing.
Si-Soft Sandra is another performance indicating program, it gives settings error suggestions but you might best read and forget the majority of them. Increasing memory sometimes helps give better performance.
Those machines give good operation running this Puppy Linux.
A lot of the efficiency boost with Puppy Linux is due to not having the deadweight of scanners and viral monitoring stuff as is needed with MS. (or the expense)
A moderate learning curve is involved.
Cheers, qldit.
 
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Messages
17,584
I would agree with qldit as well, the P2 400 would give better performance than the Celeron 500 under most circumstances.

It's rare that a NZ'er would agree with an Australian but it does happen.
had a good day qldit?
 
Joined
Mar 18, 2005
Messages
3,390
G'day Kiwi, yes those P2-400's didn't run too badly at all. (currently Aus$2 to Aus$4 at the market, Aus $10 with the M/board) (slot 1's)
I was never really impressed with Celerons.
I got a shock recently with a VIA-933, I was under the impression it was similar to a P-3-500 or something like that, but it showed similar to a high-end P-2 in performance. I would never touch another one.
It is cooler here now thankfully! rgds.
 

jklein

Thread Starter
Joined
Apr 18, 2003
Messages
27
qldit, I had already run Belarc on it and about the only difference I saw was that the PII had 512K L2 cache while the Celeron only has 128K. I didn't see any reference to bus speed (system hung after a bit, but I think that's because the last owner had it all goofed up). It's supposedly able to run at 66/100/133, but I believe it's autosensing. Precious little on the net about this Atrends MB, though.

I guess I just figured that a Celeron designed for my PIII MB in the old Gateway would beat a PII, but I guess that 512K cache really makes a difference. I though initially that maybe the MB was set to 100MHz for the PII but might need to be set to 66MHz for the Celeron, but I guess it wouldn't work at all then, huh?

I had planned to wipe 98SE off of it and put Win2K. I might even have some spare RAM around to add to the 128MB in there already. What is this Puppy Linux? Hadn't heard of that (although I should be learning about Linux some more with a new job I'll be getting this year).

Thanks,
Jeff K.
 
Joined
Aug 5, 2002
Messages
2,246
that 512 cache memory vs 128 makes all the differance in the world regarding processor speed that is how intel and amd are able to market the celeron and duron cpus and i heard older celerons are pentiums with cache that wasnt made correctly
 
Joined
Nov 25, 2005
Messages
437
What can you tell us about the BIOS ID string on that motherboard? It will look something like this:

01/14/2000-693A-596B-977-631001C-PG

or this:

05/05/1999-i440BX-W977-ATC-6521C-DW

or something similar. If you can provide a BIOS date and ID string, I might have better luck trying to locate a manual for that system, and then you will have a better idea on which items you can tweak in the CMOS settings to try to improve the performance...

You should be able to find it through Belarc, or by watching the monitor during POST, and pressing the PAUSE / BREAK key... You might also find an actual model number, which would be something like ATC-6521, or ATC -7301...
 

jklein

Thread Starter
Joined
Apr 18, 2003
Messages
27
sammysosa said:
What can you tell us about the BIOS ID string on that motherboard?
You should be able to find it through Belarc, or by watching the monitor during POST, and pressing the PAUSE / BREAK key... You might also find an actual model number, which would be something like ATC-6521, or ATC -7301...
Good idea, I had forgotten about looking through the BIOS for the board number (got it off the silkscreen...not always the same ;) ). I'm at work now so I'll have to wait until I get home to check that out and post it.

'Til then,
Jeff K.
 
Joined
Mar 18, 2005
Messages
3,390
jklein said:
qldit, I had already run Belarc on it and about the only difference I saw was that the PII had 512K L2 cache while the Celeron only has 128K. I didn't see any reference to bus speed (system hung after a bit, but I think that's because the last owner had it all goofed up). It's supposedly able to run at 66/100/133, but I believe it's autosensing. Precious little on the net about this Atrends MB, though.

I guess I just figured that a Celeron designed for my PIII MB in the old Gateway would beat a PII, but I guess that 512K cache really makes a difference. I though initially that maybe the MB was set to 100MHz for the PII but might need to be set to 66MHz for the Celeron, but I guess it wouldn't work at all then, huh?

I had planned to wipe 98SE off of it and put Win2K. I might even have some spare RAM around to add to the 128MB in there already. What is this Puppy Linux? Hadn't heard of that (although I should be learning about Linux some more with a new job I'll be getting this year).

Thanks,
Jeff K.
G'day Everone, Hi Sammy, those diferent type processor mount boards are a bit of a problem with their selections, you definitely need the manual to make them "dance". They seem to work better with slot processors.
I forget the procedure but if you google mother board identification by bios number or something like that or using the numbers off the board between the PCI slots usually it gives you a clue to chase. It is amazing that many of those board particulars and files are kept in Russian or similar addresses these days.

Hava a look at this puppy, http://www.goosee.com/puppy/ it is a magical toy.
Leaves W-98 for dead on those P-2's as far as versitility and performance is concerned. By the time you get everything loaded with W-98 it is a bit like driving a V8 with a potato in the exhaust. Give this a try, Version 1.0.7 (mozilla) it is like a breeze of fresh air once you get a few basics. (A bit like w-95)
Great on the net ( I don't have an A/V loaded at all, and am carrying out tests to see if the thing is affected)
Qldit.
 
Joined
Nov 25, 2005
Messages
437
Hi qldit,

There was a time not too long ago when I devoted myself to identifying "unknown" hardware, and I like to think I'm good at it. I actually found a fair amount of information about that mobo, but I'd really like to locate a manual, and maybe an updated BIOS for it, so jklein can have some fun benchmarking it.

Here's a link, with spec sheet and photo:

http://motherboards.org/mobot/motherboards_d/A-Trend/ATA-V931-CX0/

FWIW, I'm willing to bet the Celeron 500 will ultimately outperform the PII / 400, but not until he gets everything working properly. As much as I like the PII 400 (had two of them running 24 / 7 just a few years ago), that Celeron has a 20% speed advantage, and let's not forget that the smaller L2 cache on the Celeron runs at 500 MHz (chip speed), while the larger L2 cache on the PII runs at only 200 MHz (half of the chip speed). That means the Celeron cache is running 2.5 times as fast as the PII cache; combine that with the difference in CPU speed, and the Celeron should be the better performer. Of course, the Celeron IS somewhat hampered by the lower FSB speed (66 MHz, as compared to the 100 MHz FSB of the PII), but I think the benchmarks will give the overall performance nod to the Celeron.

You know how much I like Puppy Linux, and I hope jklein will take it for a spin; it SCREAMS compared to Windows, especially with all the "security" crap you have to run in the background on Windoze...
 
Joined
Mar 18, 2005
Messages
3,390
Good Morning Sammy, yes you are probalby quite correct, but the problem would probably be more along the lines of technology mismatch and board architecture.
I never understood why they produced those two processor type boards althoug I tried many times to use slot one adapters with later series Celerons and quickly learned the adapters were a wast of time.

I then tried using specifc processor adapters (slot one's which were avaiable here with the processor as a matched kit) these were supposed to overcome the shortfall, but once again found even a similar Celeron as is mentioned here was less "useable" than the original Pentium.
The Pentium 3 slot one series may have been different, I just avoided them and used AMD's instead.

I kind of formed the opinion that those P2 slot ones, (provided they had a fan fitted) were pretty good. Actually I have half a dozen here in IBM desktops with no fans apart from the case-front fans, there are different kinds of ducts someone obviously has been trying to direct the airflow at the processor. LOL.

Mounting a P-100 fan on their "spiky" heatsinks (wired in place!) fixes the heating problem and loading Puppy Linux allows me to sell them at the amazing price of Aus$35. The memory shortfall mostly (32megs) was a problem initially but loading the operating system to the hard-drive using a different machine overcame that.
You normally appear to need 128 megs of memory to do a hard drive install in the machine otherwise. (because of the ramdrive)
It is a bit of a joke when you consider the time involved getting them up, but the recipients are usually happy. They were originally given to me with the understanding that I not try to make money out of them. So everyone wins.

It is quite funny when someone asks how is it that such old machines work so well. (these kind of comments come from P4 kind of people that see these things running)
Most of the recipients are pensioner types, only wanting internet, email and general use so everything clicks! In many cases the net becomes a major part of their life.

One old chap in a wheel chair was right into porn, it was quite funny, his machine ran windows and was always full of viruses and stuff like that, It certainly was entertainment having a look at his explorer history. I used to quite enjoy fixing it every few months, he never let the free A/V run.
You can imagine an old chap propped up in a wheel chair with pacemaker and emphysema sucking on drugs.
I used to quite enjoy taking the piss out of him as to what sites he may have been visiting!!
Actually I didn't consider any problem with it, others found him disgusting, shows how different people are, but he was just a nice old chap that no longer had any real quality of life and no privacy. Not Like us we still have the booze!!! LOL!

Since he has had Puppy he has not called, either he has passed away or the thing has never broken. Hopefully the latter.
Low expense overhead, just use the thing! You have to laugh!!
Cheers, qldit.
 
Joined
Mar 18, 2005
Messages
3,390
I just had a look at the board image, I wouldn't be surprised if that was a PC partners board. It looks quite modern!
qldit.
 

jklein

Thread Starter
Joined
Apr 18, 2003
Messages
27
sammysosa said:
What can you tell us about the BIOS ID string on that motherboard?
You should be able to find it through Belarc...
Ok, sorry for the delay. I've finished installing Win2K on it so far (might try Puppy later after I figure all this out), also ran Belarc on it and this is some of the more pertinent info (btw, I already had found that link you posted later to the mobo specs).

System Model
VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82C692BX

Processor
400 megahertz Intel Pentium II
32 kilobyte primary memory cache
512 kilobyte secondary memory cache

Main Circuit Board
Board: 693-686A
Bus Clock: 100 megahertz
BIOS: Award Software International, Inc. 6.00 PG 07/03/2000

Other info I've gathered (might be repeating here):
Mobo silkscreened number: ATA-V931-CX0
RAM type: PC100-222-620R (PE16721R4SN3-IN01)
BIOS: 2A6LGV3C (from Setup utility at bootup)

So, does this help at all? Even if I stay with the PII, I would also like to know if anyone has any other info on this mobo (RAM type, how to adjust all those little things, etc).

Thanks for all your help so far,
Jeff K.
 
Joined
Nov 25, 2005
Messages
437
Not having great luck finding anything really helpful, so I have a request:

Hold down the INSERT key BEFORE you turn the power on. KEEP holding it down while you press the power button, and with any luck, it will cause a keyboard error. It should also reveal the ENTIRE BIOS ID string on the bottom of the monitor; normally, there is a lot of hidden information available, but the only way I know of to retrieve it is to hold down the INSERT key BEFORE you apply power to the system. Holding any other key down (other than the one used to enter the CMOS Setup, which is usually DEL) should ONLY cause a keyboard error, but you WON'T see the hidden information...

Try that; you should see a keyboard error message, which will tell you to press F1 to continue booting, and F2 (or maybe DEL) to enter the CMOS Setup program. Don't press ANY key; just copy down the information shown on the bottom of the display. That will show you the ENTIRE BIOS ID string, including the hidden information I've mentioned. After that, you can shut the system down without causing any problems; you DON'T have to continue the boot process...

BTW, I figured you had already seen that link, but I wanted qldit to see it also; he's a true hardware maniac... :D
 
Status
This thread has been Locked and is not open to further replies. Please start a New Thread if you're having a similar issue. View our Welcome Guide to learn how to use this site.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

As Seen On
As Seen On...

Welcome to Tech Support Guy!

Are you looking for the solution to your computer problem? Join our site today to ask your question. This site is completely free -- paid for by advertisers and donations.

If you're not already familiar with forums, watch our Welcome Guide to get started.

Join over 807,865 other people just like you!

Latest posts

Top