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PSU? Overtasking? Dying? Both? Neither?

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by kingknightrider, Jan 20, 2015.

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  1. kingknightrider

    kingknightrider Thread Starter

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    The important info:
    The PSU is a 550-watt 1.85 year old PSU gold quality that is powering an AMD ATHLON II X2 270 on a ASUS M4A88T-M LE motherboard with two Crucial 2GB Single DDR3 (PC3-8500) CL7 Unbuffered UDIMM 240-Pin RAM chips and one Western Digital WD1002FAEX Caviar Black 1 TB SATA III 7200 RPM 64 MB Cache hard drive alone with three 120mm LED fans and one 80mm fan.


    Now the issue:
    I recently transferred a Nvidia 650ti with 6pin connector -[ALL cards mentioned are Zotac Nvidia cards]- from my main computer to the house secondary machine which had been using a 9800 GT with no 6 or 8 pin connector. However when I tried to run a graphic intensive benchmark using the Unigine-Heaven-4.0 program a buzzing sound emits from the secondary computers' PSU. After no more than 30 seconds; the machine reboots and states that the machine has rebooted to protect against a surge that has been detected coming out of the PSU.


    My questions:
    Is this the result of the 650 ti upgrade that I placed into the machine taking more power since the 9800 GT had run just fine without the added power?


    Is using the 650 ti with the secondary machine setup overtasking the 550watt-PSU and thus a more powerful one is needed?


    Or is it the fact that the PSU is already dying and just already needs replacement?
     
  2. Tanis

    Tanis

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    What is the make and model of the PSU?

    I would suspect the PSU isn't up to the job of running the 650Ti
     
  3. crjdriver

    crjdriver Moderator

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    The spec sheet for the 9800 shows 2x6pin connectors;
    http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-9800gt/specifications

    Are you sure that you in fact had a 9800 and not something else?

    Did you uninstall the old driver prior to pulling the old card?

    Proper way to install a new video card;
    1 With old card still installed, uninstall ALL software related to the old card; ie driver, monitoring software, etc. Do not reboot; just shutdown.
    2 Pull the old card and install the new card. Make any pw connections that are needed. Be sure the card is fully seated in the slot
    3 Pw ON and install the new driver. Note always go to the Nvidia/amd driver page and download the latest driver. The driver on the support cd/dvd is almost always out of date.
    4 Reboot. Done.
     
  4. kingknightrider

    kingknightrider Thread Starter

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    I followed necessary procedure for graphic card replacement in both computers.


    The 9800 GT that I have does not have a 6-pin:
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814500142


    The PSU which had worked fine with this card started to make that buzzing noise when I tried to launch the benchmark. I also tested some games like Mass Effect 3 and same buzzing. Should make it known that on the desktop with only desktop showing or running internet it makes NO buzzing.
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817170019


    Note this PSU was installed on Oct. 20 2013
     
  5. Tanis

    Tanis

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    I would still say the PSU isn't up to the job. It is a cheap unit, therefore has cheap components. When you are talking about a gaming PC or supporting a dedicated graphics card of any reasonable capability then you really do need a good quality PSU. There is actually quite a big difference in ability between a good quality 550w PSU and a cheap when.

    Have a look in the BIOS and see if it shows you values for the +5v, +3.3v and +12v rails and let us know. Also might be worth installing Speccy and seeing what that reports (if anything) for those values both when the PC is idle at the desktop and under load (running a game etc).
     
  6. kingknightrider

    kingknightrider Thread Starter

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    Both of those things showed nothing: No voltage reads for PSU in BIOS... it is an ASUS M4A88T-M LE motherboard if that helps. Speccy will not even run... tries and computer shuts off.

    I understand that PSUs' change with the times nevertheless I bought these 550 watts power supplies from logisys when they first came out... back in 06 or 07 i believe and the price was about $45 per unit at the time and worked well and for a long time; so I figured the price drop was appropiate. Still that was back before any gaming was done so maybe more power is indeed needed.


    If so how about one of these:
    http://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Modul...r+supply&pebp=1421918558610&peasin=B00ALK3KEM


    http://www.amazon.com/Antec-Current-HCG-900-BRONZE-Supply/dp/B0046L2KQ6/ref=cm_cd_al_qh_dp_t
     
  7. replay

    replay

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  8. kingknightrider

    kingknightrider Thread Starter

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    Just for clarification is there any difference between the two different power supplies listed? What equates to the info Module vs Non Module?
     
  9. PcPhoenix

    PcPhoenix

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    We could look up the power specs for your cards and all devices in your computer to determine if your PSU is being overloaded (some PSU's conveniently have a display for this reason!), but that seems a little too mathematical considering that your PSU is producing random buzzing noises and Windows is shutting down to protect from power surges.

    PSU's do naturally degrade over time, mostly as your capacitors start bubbling.

    I believe modular means that the cables coming out of the PSU can actually be unplugged from the PSU. If you look in the picture of the modular CPU you can clearly see where the cables are supposed to connect. I guess this is to avoid the needless "cable gore" that some people experience when they have many unused cables in their case.

    But they cost the same amount so you seem to be losing 250W in exchange for a "modular" feature. I would get the nonmodular one and enjoy knowing that I have more power and will never accidentally lose one of those cables.
     
  10. kingknightrider

    kingknightrider Thread Starter

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    That sounds like a good idea; best not to waste money if something worse. You do mean the capacitors of the PSU and not motherboard capacitors right? I can not find the power consumption for the 9800 GT model (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814500142) -the 650TI max usage is 110 TDP.


    I would greatly apprieciate any help with power calculations as I am a bit new to calculating total TDP. I usually consult with a college professor I know in the area but he is out of town right now thus leaving me a little out of my depth.

    Here are the computer specs:
    AMD Athlon II X2 270 Regor Dual-Core 3.4GHz Socket AM3
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...e=AMD_ATHLON_II_X2_270-_-19-103-953-_-Product


    ASUS M4A88T-M LE AM3
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...cm_re=ASUS_M4A88T-M_LE-_-13-131-673-_-Product


    1 Western Digital WD1002FAEX Caviar Black 1 TB SATA III 7200 RPM 64 MB Cache
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...5&cm_re=WD1002FAEX-_-9SIA6U129T7815-_-Product


    2 Crucial 2GB Single DDR3 1066 MT/s (PC3-8500) CL7 Unbuffered UDIMM
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000VZL6WK/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


    2 Cooler Master Dual Ball Bearing 80mm
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...Dual_Ball_Bearing_80mm-_-11-999-069-_-Product


    3 Thermaltake AF0032 Thunderblade 120mm Blue LED
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...S2414&cm_re=AF0032-_-1YF-001G-00004-_-Product


    1 GeForce GTX 650 Ti 1GB 128-Bit GDDR5
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814500286R

    the grapics card upgraded from:
    1 GeForce 9800 GT 512MB 256-Bit GDDR3
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814500142


    1 Vantec Spectrum Fan Card with Dual 70mm
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...88112&cm_re=SP-FC70-BL-_-35-888-112-_-Product




    If it is indeed the PSU issue I will definately go with the Antec then.
     
  11. PcPhoenix

    PcPhoenix

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    Yes the PSU capacitors. They degrade over time based on their quality, how closely they match working loads and conditions, and the temperature they are exposed to. Keeping electrolytic caps running under high temperature decreases their life span, one of the many reasons to keep your computer cool. Heat kills everything.

    There is nothing really complicated about calculating power needs. Wattage is the measure of power. Wattage = Volts & Amps. Voltage is constant for all devices, but Amperage isn't, because devices draw a different amount of current depending on what they're doing. So when you read that your Video Card is 110W peak, that's not a constant 110W, that when it's performing in it's highest power state. Same for your PSU, it's not constantly producing 900W of power. That's just what it can do at maximum load.

    Anyway, some numbers:
    CPU: 65W
    Video Card: 110W
    Hard Drive: 10W?
    RAM: 10W?
    FAN: 10W?
    FAN2: 10W?
    CardFan: 15W?
    Motherboard: 70W?

    The question marks are guesstimates, but I'm over guessing by probably twice as much as it actually is, but better safe than sorry. In total this comes out to be 280W. You also will have some USB devices plugged in and maybe some sort of other peripherals. Lets say 300W.

    This is all still significantly less than the 750W or 900W PSU you're buying, which makes me wonder why they make them so high. I'm guessing it has to do with reliability. They never tell you really what 900W means. Sure the PSU can produce that much for a moment? What about an hour? A day? A month? My guess is that if you try to actually draw 900W from the PSU then it will only last a month or two. So PSU's are made to be able to produce peak power that is possibly 3x expected average load. But soon this "peak power" number became a serious marketing tool, and thus you have these numbers being thrown around.

    Still I'd get the 900W, because i can't find a practical use for the modular one besides aesthetics.

    EDIT: Here is a good page on the subject: http://www.silverstonetek.com/techtalk_cont.php?area=&tid=wh10_005

    Apparently longetivity is just one of the factors. Maximum efficiency is achieved when the PSU is producing ~50% of is maximum output power. With better efficiency comes less heat to produce that number of power, meaning less noise overall.
     
  12. kingknightrider

    kingknightrider Thread Starter

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    Thank you greatly.
     
  13. kingknightrider

    kingknightrider Thread Starter

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    All of a sudden I have found myself beginning to wonder if my other PSU (the one in my main computer) is strong enough to run the Zotac 760 TI AMP edition.


    I tried calculating the watts of my main computer and from the results grew a bit concerned. Is my concern valid?:


    Motherboard- 140W (ASUS M5A97 LE-Max wattage it can hold)
    CPU- 125W (AMD FX 4350)
    RAM- 40W (4 RAM chips: Kingston blu x2, hyper x x1, hyper savage x1)
    Fans =90W (if each fan is 10W....)
    Fan Card =9W
    Western Digital 1 TB, Western Digital 1 TB, Western Digital 1 TB =30W
    ZOTAC AMP! SUPERCLOCKED ZT-70402-10P =250W


    That comes to right about 700W! ... Only 50 to spare on main machine!.... Before I installed card though was about 550W .....ironic.


    Does this sound like a good idea: Take my current main machine PSU (antec earth watt 750 -It is good) and put in the machine with the buzzing PSU (that is the machine with 550W dying one -THAT DOES HAVE BAD capactiors!) and put the 900 watt in my main machine?
     
  14. PcPhoenix

    PcPhoenix

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    That sounds like a pretty power-hungry setup you have going there.

    It does sound like a good idea to take the 750PSU out of the main one and use it to replace the buzzing CPU, but considering how much power that setup you just listed requires, i would get something more powerful than the 900W, probably a 1000W.

    This is based off of the information i read in that link i posted. It should run cooler and last longer.
     
  15. captainron276

    captainron276

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