Q8300 or Phenom II X4 810?

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calvin-c

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I'm trying to decide which PC to recommend for a client. I've already recommended a custom build, but they're fixated on HP-so I've come up with two models. One has a Q8300 (4MB L2, no L3, 1333MHz FSB) but an Intel 4500HD integrated graphics card. The other has a Phenom II X4 810 (2MB L2, 4MB L3, 2000MHz HTT bus) with a Radeon 4200 integrated graphics card. (The Intel says '32MB integrated shared memory' and the ADI says '256MB integrated shared memory'. I'm guessing that it's all shared and the amounts listed are minimums.) Client isn't a gamer but wants Windows 7 which I figure will require at least as good graphics as Vista, and I'm just not impressed by the 4500HD graphics performance in Vista. (Except that's in a totally different PC so I'm trying to ignore that.)

What do you think?
 
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Are RAM types/sizes and all other things equal between the builds? What about the hard drives? HDD performance is something to consider since a single disk access takes way longer than most operations.

I haven't had great experience with Intel 4500 graphics either.
 
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Both are low end quad cores...

For a business machine, won't make much difference. But I'd go for the AMD as its onboard graphics will murder the intel. I'm about to build another WIn7 box. About $500 in parts with an AMD X3 720 that'll be smokin ;)
 
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What do I think? I believe since you stated that your "potential" customer was fixated on a HP machine, that you are butting your head against a wall if you believe you can compete with a mass producer.

Mass producers such as HP, Gateway, Dell, etc. purchase components (chassis, boards, processors, memory, OS's, etc.) in such volume, and produce their machines in low wage Countries such as Mexico, etc. an independent builder just can't be competitive price wise which is the main criteria the majority of purchasers are considering.

Today, independent builders/repairers have to look at repairs, upgrades, simple data recovery, system set-up, etc. to stay in business. You may get an occasional order for a new machine, but that's getting rarer and rarer other than from individuals and companies for whom you have previously built a machine, or need a "specialty" machine the mass producers don't offer.

Concentrate on areas other than initial builds, and at the end of the year you'll have a lot more $$$ in your pocket than trying to compete with mass producers on initial builds.

Just my opinion.
 
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Yep.

I actually charge almost the same to "fix up" a name brand computer than if I build it. IE: time spent removing crap-ware and tweaks is about the same as me building a clean PC.

But for most of my clients, I build them desktops and sell them notebooks (ThinkPads, usually). In one office, I've slowly replaced all their Dells with custom builds... since I was able to build a high end PC for $300~500 less. On another client, even if I tell them about a $300 special, they'd prefer I build a $450 box.

Let them know that Dell/HPAQ, etc pretty much come from the same Chinese factories - they don't even BUILD/Design computers. They say "we want a $395 PC, build it with this much profit/costs." Whereas a true quality builder goes by what you want / need and budget.

HPs are okay. When the PSU blows, you'll make $100~200 to do the on-site diagnostic and repair on the HP.

Here is my phrase. Dell, HP, Compaq, Gateway, Acer, one is not really any better than the other since they are all the same levels of junk.

I do recommend the $350 Compaq for people I don't know or on this site across the country. Its not really much slower than a $500 HP.
 
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Both are low end quad cores...

For a business machine, won't make much difference. But I'd go for the AMD as its onboard graphics will murder the intel. I'm about to build another WIn7 box. About $500 in parts with an AMD X3 720 that'll be smokin ;)
I agree on the graphics card, if its Win Vista/ 7 get a good card, and the ATI is definitely better.
 

calvin-c

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Thanks. I should have been clearer that I'm not trying to compete with mass brands. In fact I'm more into programming these days than building, but I want to keep this customer happy (programming jobs) and would have done a custom build, using the Phenom II X3 710 or 720 (the current leader in price/performance, IMO) but what he's paying for is a recommendation of which HP to buy.

I was kind of leaning towards the AMD after I realized that most of the articles I read about how useless the L3 cache was were published before Intel came out with their i7 which also has L3 cache. (I think-I got caught the other day posting something from memory & here I am doing it again. Do I ever learn?) Anyway, that makes me lean towards the AMD, with more total cache even though it has less L2. And as everybody has said, the graphics are no question.

And everything else is the same. (8GB PC3-8500 RAM, 750GB 7200rpm SATA HDD, etc.)
 
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L3 Cache has proven beneficial, especially with biug math processess... Thats why the Phenom, i5 and i7 all beat the new Athlon IIs, even at quad core and clock per clock.
 
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Well, its a business machine... and compared to the OLD P4 3.0Ghz, even todays $60 AMD X2s will run circles around older computers.

Just get him what he wants and move on. AMD would have a better personalty.

Check my stats: I have an intel C2D @ 3.0Ghz. I'm building AMD... and I wish I had an AMD... but back then I did my last upgrade, AMD didn't have a good enough chip.
 
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The old P4s were honestly junk...

The old Athlons were great, the Pentium M was great... but what went wrong with the P4 I'll never know. With the budget i5 and i7s are amazing chips as well, but the Phenoms definitely bring back the "bang for the buck" AMD lead.
 
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What went wrong with P4 is easy. Netburst. Designed for high clock rates, not performance.

Pentium M are kind of a "copy" of the old AMDs... and eventually turned into Core2. :)

Look at the photos of the die.
 
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What went wrong with P4 is easy. Netburst. Designed for high clock rates, not performance.

Pentium M are kind of a "copy" of the old AMDs... and eventually turned into Core2. :)

Look at the photos of the die.
I've also read that in order to make the M they went more towards the arhitecture they used in the P3s, then when that worked so well they began work on the Core Duo and Solo based off of that.

Intel generally takes short cuts it seems, such as their Quad cores where they simply married two dual cores, one of the problems the Pentium D had too.
 
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Intel was battling AMD for clock speed. Remember back in the OLD days when 500mhz vs 800Mhz made more sense? AMD hit 1000Mhz first... so intel was pushing to hit 2Ghz and 3Ghz first... which they did, with slower CPUs.

Whereas today, a $60 Intel CPU at 1.8Ghz is faster than a 3yr old $1000 Pentium EE @ 3.8Ghz.

Seriously, the Centrino design looks very much like an AMD/P3 design. It was always a better design over Netburst.

The dual-core dual-die designs on the PentiumD and Core2 is fine... not quite as good as AMD (now) and Core i5/7 designs... but does work. There are areas in gaming and work in which the AMD and Corei# perform better.
 
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Seriously, the Centrino design looks very much like an AMD/P3 design. It was always a better design over Netburst.
Just to clarify a point. Centrino is not a specific processor architecture. Centrino is a combination of three components, i.e. Processor, Chipset and Wireless adapter.
 
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yeah... sorry.

With all the names Intel and AMD comes up with (Fusion), it kind of mixes things up a bit. You can buy a laptop with ALL Intel parts (CPU/Chipset/Wireless) and still not be called "Centrino"...

But the Pentium-M (First used in the Centrino brand) is what I referring too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_M
 
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