Random restarts and BSODs.

[Crystallize]

Hi !

I was wondering if anyone can help me to determine why my sons computer have these random restarts and BSODs.

Earlier it happened like maybe once a day or so.

Now it starts happened more frequently, like 4-5 times a day and

well, it's time to do something about it.

The computer first go BSOD for like a tenth of a sec, too short to see what it says, then it restarts completely.

So I wonder, is there anywhere you can find what it said on the BSOD screen after the restart, so you can check for the error ?

I can say what its not, it's not the OP system, since it doesn't make any difference if its newly reinstalled or not.

The CPU temp are ok, only around 45°c.

The motherboard is fairly new, not even a year, but on the other hand it doesn't have to mean a lot. Also the graphic card isn't too old.

It's a Celeron 2,4GHz with a P4S8X-X motherboard. 1280 DDR-ram.

What should I look for ?

Help me please !

 

[winbob]

You need to turn off the AUTORESTART option. It is found in System Properties under the Advanced Tab.

Then you will see the BSOD.

 

[Crystallize]

Thanks !

Ok, so now we have come that far.

The BSODs are saying.

STOP:0x00000050
(0xFFFFFFFF, 0x00000000, 0xFFFFFFFF, 0x00000000)
PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA

RAM error !?

I'd appreciate to get additional suggestions even if it would be only to confirm.

 

[winbob]

Now that you have the message,

"PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA"

Google it, and you'll find some decent write ups on the problem. I reviewed several, and it seems to boil down to possible:

1. Memory problem;
2. Driver Problem;
3. and someone blamed Norton programs!

Review some of the articles and you may see something that rings a bell specific to your system.

 

[Crystallize]

Google it, and you'll find some decent write ups on the problem.
1. Memory problem;
2. Driver Problem;
3. and someone blamed Norton programs!

Review some of the articles and you may see something that rings a bell specific to your system.

I did google it and found what you did, thats why I thought it was a RAM problem.

I don't believe in Driver problems really.
If Windows "drops" a driver, it is caused by a faulty motherboard
or if the bios is faulty. (more often the mo-bo though)

And applications shouldn't cause a real BSOD, it can cause Windows to stop responding and perhaps to terminate the program or similar, but not a actual BSOD. A "real" BSOD is in 99% of all cases caused by a hard ware problem.

I have built or rebuilt 11 computers in all and also mostly I have never had problems to determine what causes problems but in this case I'm not sure.

Also, it seems like the BSODs come more frequently if the PC are downloading files,
when he is playing Tibia or Diablo II online for several hours in straight
or if the computer does a complete system scan with the Anti virus program.

It could indicate that it get these BSODs when it uses extended amount of RAM for a longer time.

He have 4 sticks of DDR333 RAM = 1280Mb

I will try with removing 2 of the sticks and see if it helps, if not
I switch to the other too.

 

[qldit]

G'day crystallize, personally I like the colour blue, and I think those screens are beautiful works of art putting you in a position of inferiority and the machine is simply asserting that inherent authority.
You might try obtaining "everest home" off the net (free) place it in a folder on your desktop and unzip it to the same folder. Doubleclick on a green icon in that folder and you will have a lovely program open, select the computer icon and move across to sensors and open it. Carefully observe the voltages and temperatures shown there.
Especially the 5 volt, also the processor temperature, should be around 30-40 C dgs.
If the voltages are good, (the 5 volt should be better than 4.95) and the temps look good you can pat your self on the back and we can move on to some other ridiculous theory or wild guess!
Memory has an awful lot of internal addresses and is very important that they all work properly, obtain "memtest86" off the net (free) and follow the destructions to create either a bootable floppy or a bootable CD with it. If you use a floppy ensure you format it thoroughly a couple of times and that it has no bad sectors before you make you bootable disk with it.
You may have to set your machine BIOS to boot priority for the media you have your mtest on, and boot the from the darned thing.
All being well you will get a most amazing program running and doing all kinds of strange tests. Leave the thing run for an hour or so, by then you might be able to understand what it is doing, (I watched it for a week and still can't understand) you will notice there is a fault reporting area and that it actually shows "absolutely" no problems whatsoever. This being true memory is good. If even one problem shows you will have to try to determine which stick it is and all that kind of stuff by physically removing and trying different ideas and sticks. If you are a genius and can understand all the garbage on screen in this test (assuming there is a problem) it is quite simple to actually see which stick of memory might have a problem and which location on that stick is actually causing the problem.
So see how you with that lot of rubbish.
Having determined that voltage, temperature and memory is good, we now enter the padded cell for a rest. (LOL)
Cheers, qldit.

 

[Flicker]

on this rig, i had random restarts all the time, often getting the same stop-error as you. tried everything - heat, video, HD...turned out to be the memory - i jacked my roommate's and used it in mine and everything worked perfectly. try docking completely different memory and see if that stops it. If it does, then insert your's along with it one stick at a time, see what one's causing problems.

you can also download a program like MemTest (http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=964) to check your memory out.

 

[loserOlimbs]

I have also seen this a few times where what it turned out to be was that the ram didn't all match correctly. Make sure it is all the same type of RAM, same latency, and is all bufferes or unbuffered, as long as it matches.

 

[drewgraham]

If you've got 4 sticks, maybe you didn't buy them all at once?

If so, it could easily be the parity of the RAM, a faulty chip or just a belligerent stick.

Follow everyone’s advice and run memtest from a boot. One option’s UBCD (ultimate bootable CD) which has that plus 1000 other amazing things on it.

Even if it’s clean and the voltage reads close enough to 5v, try changing (and this sounds stupid, I know) the order of your ram sticks.

A difference in less than 0.01v will be enough for a BSOD, and if it’s, say, chip 4 on stick 1 then that will alter the voltage flowing to the other chips. It’s just guesswork really, and experimenting.

If all that fails, eliminate the RAM by borrowing (if you have friends with DDR333) ram for a few days and see if it stops. If so, buy new RAM – all the same.

If so, it’s either the power supply or the motherboard, more likely the latter.

 

[qldit]

Good evening all, yes that is a valid point, borrow some ram check it as good and return the bad sticks to the lender.(LOL)
Whenever you go inside the case ensure the power plug is pulled and follow the touching of the case with both hands to try to neutralise static charges.
Be careful how you handle the ram sticks, do not touch the contact pads. Do not wear nylon clothing (cotton is best) and do not eat garlic..wash your hands...do not speak to strangers..LOL.
I have a feeling you will enjoy the exercise.
Cheers, qldit.

 

[drewgraham]

Aha! qldit may have it.

You say you built, or rebuilt, lots of computers. Now, I really don't want to be insulting here, but if you had your hand in the machine without the following precutions:

1) Keep one hand touching the case at ALL times, or use an anti-static writeband;
2) Plug the computer directly into a earthed wall socket, leaving the power at the socket off but any PSU switched on. Plugging it into a wall socket through an extention cable may not be enough as some extention cables don't give you the grounding.

Then that may have cooked a RAM chip, causing the problem.

The solution's to do what everyone says and run the tests and checks and eliminate, or otherwise, the RAM. It's juist a possible cause.

 

[loserOlimbs]

Wait lets just make this reaaly simple, pull out all sticks but one, make sure it is in slot (0) or (1) depending on which one you and your board refer to it as, if it doesn't boot try another stick. We have now eliminated two(in theory) problems bad RAM and mis-matched RAM. If we still think it is RAM related then the only two choices we have left are a bad DMA or a short on the DMA by something like a chasis screw in the wrong place. Sound about right?

 

[qldit]

Aha! qldit may have it.

You say you built, or rebuilt, lots of computers. Now, I really don't want to be insulting here, but if you had your hand in the machine without the following precutions:

1) Keep one hand touching the case at ALL times, or use an anti-static writeband;
2) Plug the computer directly into a earthed wall socket, leaving the power at the socket off but any PSU switched on. Plugging it into a wall socket through an extention cable may not be enough as some extention cables don't give you the grounding.

Then that may have cooked a RAM chip, causing the problem.

The solution's to do what everyone says and run the tests and checks and eliminate, or otherwise, the RAM. It's juist a possible cause.

G'day drewgraham, please be as insulting as you like, I don't actually recall saying "I built or rebuilt anything" if you have had any experience working with CMOS or sensitive chips you would be aware that there is no requirement to be grounded to earth potential at all, simply that any present surface charge be equalised to the different components. This could be with a resistive wrist strap or similar accessory.
The actual earth can be substantially potentially above true earth from point to point in simple close proximity positions.
With regard to having the power plugged into the back of the computer on the assumption that that earthing ability is going to do something to reduce static content is really incorrect, in fact if you might be working in an ion rich kind of environment you may well worsen any situation.
You must remember also that even if the power lead is plugged to the machine it is possible for inductive potential to appear between it's ends.
Static generation as you would be aware is a surface charge, usually most evident at the smaller extremities of any object, it can be dissipated by various means, probably one of the best is to have moistened hands and simply touch the chassis of the of the components involved as to equalise the static differences. A wrist strap is desireable of course, but if care is exercised you might be aware that there are millions of examples daily that would tend to indicate that the chassis touching technique is quite ample. Of course when working with high reliance equipment it is sensible to increase the degree of margin with zero charge in the air, and all accessories bonded, with a conductive worktop area and bonding leads.
So I do reccomend always removing the plug from the machine before any operation is carried out within, and stand by that as a matter of fact as being the best procedure.
So I would critiscise your post as being somewhat leading and ill-informed.
Cheers, qldit.

 

[Crystallize]

Oh, just forget the whole thing.

It just that I hate people who are very willing to help but have no actuall
experiance with hardware and puts you through wild goose chase and you'll
never find the solusion anyway.

I'll find it out my self, eventually ...

 

[Crystallize]

FYI, it was one of the RAMs if it can help anyone in the future.

I took out two of the sticks and it have been 2 days and no BSODs since ...

It probably been broken since I bought them as I did bought them all at once
and this problem have been there all the time, more frequent lately but still
it was there all the time. Now solved

(you can be sure I have know about the danger of static electricity for 6 years
now and would never fry a RAM or other PC components.)